hotshoo.com - DPChallenge Forums

07/02/2010 11:44:18 AM · #3

They are new for me, and there alexa traffic rank is way to low for me to think about uploading there. But the site looks good.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

07/02/2010 05:00:24 PM · #4

Hi,

I'm with HotShoo and saw these postings and thought I'd respond.

HotShoo is a recently launched (4 weeks ago) stock photography site focused on the under-served market of designers and architects of the build environment. Before us, no site was focused on gathering reference imagery, with the right meta-data, inexpensively priced, with proper rights - all aimed at designers and architects.

This is a market never before tapped in this way. We expect designers to buy a high volume of moderately priced images for each project they undertake.

We also think it's a great way for photographers to make use of photos sitting on hard drives. Why not upload them and drive a new source of revenue.

We are welcoming top notch contributors right now.

To answer the questions:

1. Our newness explains our lack of traffic. And, we are focused right now on building the library to a minimum size before putting too much muscle behind marketing to customers.

2. We offer 30% royalty on each download. Standard downloads don't allow mass exposure usage, and so customers would need to buy extended rights from us. In these cases we negotiate with the customer and contributor to find a deal that makes sense. Expect that the price point and royalty rates will be much higher than standard in these cases.

We appreciate any feedback you have on the site or the business. Feel free to email me directly at jeff@hotshoo.com

Jeff

MattO

Nikon D4

07/02/2010 06:48:26 PM · #5

I don't do the Stock photography thing, but is 30% take for the photographer normal? I couldn't imagine giving someone 70% of my sale for marketing it. I guess that is why I don't do the stock thing.

07/02/2010 07:29:14 PM · #6

30% commission is low. Specially for a new agency that is looking to attract contributors.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/02/2010 07:32:28 PM · #7

Also many contributor will not even think about submitting to a new agency unless they run a promo program like DepositPhotos, Veer, and Zoonar did.

Message edited by author 2010-07-02 19:32:45.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

07/02/2010 07:33:02 PM · #8

30% is nuts.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/02/2010 07:39:36 PM · #9

What does iStock pay? Is there a comparison chart of royalties for stock agencies somewhere?

snaffles

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

07/02/2010 08:06:42 PM · #10

30%?! Uhh let's see I have a few $$$k tied up in photo equipment, and I am determined to make that D90 pay its way. That's why I am very lukewarm about microstock sites.

60%, a la Alamy, is much more to my liking.

07/03/2010 01:05:27 AM · #11

Hey all,

Some more info:

* We researched the major stock sites and are in the top tier of royalties. For example, we know photographers who are exclusive to iStock making less than 25%. That's not exclusive photos, that's exclusive photographer and photos.
* To that point, we don't ask you to be an exclusive photographer.
* We allow you to sell your photos directly and on your own website. Just not other stock sites. So you may keep your existing revenue channels and supplement them with us.
* The 30% royalty applies to only standard rights sales on the site. Extended rights sales (e.g. for mass exposure campaigns) are handled separately and we extend 70 - 80% royalty to photographers on these purchases. Also, these purchases have transitional rights managed price points.
* We are addressing a market not addressed by any other stock site: designers and architects. We make it easy for this audience to find your photos with the right keywords and categories customized for them. Other sites don't do this.

Please keep the questions coming, and feel free to contact me directly if you wish: jeff@hotshoo.com

Thanks, Jeff

07/03/2010 01:44:09 AM · #12

Did I understand this correctly? The images have to be elusive with hotshoo, with the exception that I could also sell them directly without any other agency involved to a buyer.

Are you selling RF or RM licenses?

I don't think that you can compare hotshoo (for the bginning) with agencies like iStockphoto or Shutterstock or any of the other big agencies for commission. If I sell a group of image through Shutterstock, then I know if will have some sale. If I upload an image to hotshoo, can you assure sales for it within 1-2 month? If not than the oscillatory sale should be awarded with a much higher commission. A higher commission should be also granted because you ask for exclusivity.

Message edited by author 2010-07-03 01:45:10.

Slagathor

Nikon D300

07/03/2010 09:56:09 AM · #13

I took a quick look at the site. It seems to be architiectural photography only. Nice work, but narrow scope. If it's the "definitive spot for design inspiration and reference photography," then couldn't they be inspired by and refer to the previews without paying?

I wish them luck, but I think it's going to be a difficult business model to executely successfully.

07/03/2010 02:28:49 PM · #14

oboy,

Here are responses to your questions/thoughts. I want to give you complete answers, so this may go a little long. :)

"Did I understand this correctly? The images have to be elusive with hotshoo, with the exception that I could also sell them directly without any other agency involved to a buyer. "

Correct. For complete details you can see our contributor agreement. In it we have an "In Simpler Terms" terms section so that you can get the gist without having to read the legalese. In that section the first 4 points read:

1. You are agreeing that HotShoo will have the exclusive rights to all Images that you contribute to HotShoo and that you will not sell anything that is the same or substantially similar to the Images through any other outlet (except as defined below), especially to other online or offline third-party stock photography companies.
2. Despite your grant to us of exclusive rights in the Images, you may directly sell Images to End-User Clients, including through your own website.
3. Despite your grant to us of exclusive rights in the Images, you may use an Image for your personal promotional purposes, including your personal portfolio or website.
4. You are not agreeing to be an exclusive photographer for HotShoo.

"Are you selling RF or RM licenses?"

The terms of our standard license most closely match royalty free licensing. Know that we do not allow mass exposure usages of the images at our standard pricing, that requires an extended license which will be rights managed in terms and pricing.

So, you are finding a new revenue stream (selling to designers and architects) that didn't exist before. Expect this to be lower price, but higher volume - designers often use over a 100 images per project. At the same time you are exposing all images on HotShoo to the world, and thus marketing them for extended rights sales.

"I don't think that you can compare hotshoo (for the bginning) with agencies like iStockphoto or Shutterstock or any of the other big agencies for commission."

Well, there are pros and cons that we looked at when determining our royalty percentage. You've listed out a few cons. So, here are a few pros in our favor:
* On the big mature stock sites, your images will be one of tens of millions. Harder to find, more competition from other shots.
* Other sites are trying to be everything to everyone. We are focused on a single market: designers and architects. Because we are focused, we can have relevant industry terms/jargon for our keywords and categories - making it easier for our audience to find the right photo the first time.
* We won't allow hundreds of like shots on the site. If you give us the definitive set of exterior shots of a given building, then we are done. We won't allow other competing shots in. Why? It's better for the customers to not have to search through hundreds of shots to find the right one, and it's better for the contributors to have less competition. Think about the frustrations customer have finding shots on the big sites - our aim is to never have this happen on HotShoo.
* We are about building community too. HotShoo is as much about design inspiration as we are about selling images. We have blog posts and featured shooters now, and expect to expand the community options on the site too. It's all about being the definitive source for architectural and design photography.

"A higher commission should be also granted because you ask for exclusivity."

Most other stock sites ask for image exclusivity, and some go so far as to want photographer exclusivity. We only ask for image exclusivity and are thus in line with the minimal standard expectations of a stock site.

"can you assure sales for it within 1-2 month?"

You're correct, given that we are new and building our library before cranking up marketing to customers, we can't assure sales in a month or two. All new sites had to start where we are. :) As architecture/design photographers join up we are getting stronger and stronger - the world really needs a definitive and exclusive source for this beautiful photography. Come join as a founding contributor! :)

Keep the questions coming!

Thanks, Jeff

p.s. Our Contributor and License Agreements are on our site, but I can't post the link here because I'm a newer user.

07/03/2010 02:52:37 PM · #15

Slagthor,

Thanks for your response. I'll address your points here:

"It seems to be architiectural photography only. Nice work, but narrow scope. I wish them luck, but I think it's going to be a difficult business model to executely successfully"

We are intentionally focused on the architectural and design market. Is it a smaller market than what some of the major sites are aimed at (everything to everyone)? Yes. But is it a small market? No. In 2008 US-only architectural industry revenues were over $40 billion. The industry can easily support a tool like HotShoo to aid them in the design of their projects.

Need further proof of demand? Go find an architect or designer and ask them how hard it is to easily find reference imagery, at a reasonable price, where the proper rights are carved out. We've talked to scores of them. :)

"If it's the "definitive spot for design inspiration and reference photography," then couldn't they be inspired by and refer to the previews without paying?"

We do expect designers to be on the site and getting inspired by simply looking at the sample images, much like what can be done on any stock site. But, in the end, they need images to express their ideas to their customers. Whether in form of concept books, mood boards, on-screen presentations, etc. the images will need to be downloaded. They pay when they download.

07/03/2010 02:58:46 PM · #16

A quick general post...

We really appreciate the discussion on this forum.

We can only get better by hearing from photographers... especially the constructive criticism bits. :)

Thanks, Jeff

mgarsteck

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/03/2010 04:48:03 PM · #17

you know what? Im game, Ill go for it...

07/03/2010 09:56:36 PM · #18

Great. If you (or anyone) has any questions, please feel free to email me at jeff@hotshoo.com

mgarsteck

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/03/2010 10:21:09 PM · #19

When does the site going to start selling btw?

The site looks great, really easy to navigate and the UI is definitely well made.

07/04/2010 12:49:32 PM · #20

Thanks for the compliments.

One of our secret weapons is that our two founders, Jim and Jeremy, are designers in their own right. They not only came up with the product idea, but also designed the HotShoo site. :)

Even in its soft launched beta form, images can be bought and downloaded. All that functionality is in place. That said, we're holding off on an official launch until we get to a minimum number of images in our library. Our goal is 10,000 before we officially launch.

Once we get to our minimum, we'll start to actively market to customers.

07/05/2010 10:08:41 PM · #21

I do like the design of the site! Hope the plans go your way and I wish you good luck!

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

07/06/2010 05:23:33 PM · #22

Thanks, oboy!

Keep the feedback coming. :)

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/06/2010 09:38:10 PM · #23

As somebody who lives right near where you're based (Erie), I'm very curious/interested. However, maybe I'm being a bit obtuse and lack understanding of the architectural industry, but how many images would the average individual buy for a given project (ballpark)?
Also, what sort of pay out are you looking at? Does it vary, or is it absolute, considering the images are all just used for "inspiration" or what have you?
Lastly, as far as subject content, what are you looking for? After performing several random searches for terms, I found a wide variety of images, many having no relation (as I saw it) to architecture. I understand that inspiration comes in many forms, but what exactly do you desire your contributors to provide? Or do you have expectations for subject matter at all?