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06/13/2010 08:25:49 PM · #1 |
I have come across a bit of a problem recently. I suspect its been there the whole time and just slowly showing its face to me.
I dont connect well with people, Im always alone and I just dont get it. This translates into my photography as far as portraiture is concerned. I cant seem to connect the dots when it comes to people, or at least color. I love BW photography but I just dont get color. Sure, I can do a nice portrait of someone, but I dont care about mediocre stuff that comes automatically. I see people create great works of art that connect with the human soul. I just dont have that. I feel like its a disconnection with humanity. maybe its because of the years I spent with depression or the effects of something from my childhood, but I honestly dont know what to do.
It does bug me and I dont know if thats the case or not. All I know is that I see something in my head, but I cant seem to get to that point most the time. I cant tell if a picture is too dark or if its the right or wrong color.
Maybe I just need some guidance with portraiture, I have no clue. I figure this is the best way of figuring a solution. What do you guys think?
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06/13/2010 08:33:33 PM · #2 |
I read all of these and found that they were very helpful. I dont know if you are interested in reading them or not....
Message edited by author 2010-06-13 20:33:44.
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06/13/2010 08:35:06 PM · #3 |
I think it sounds like you need to find the time for a nice psychology 101 class at your local college.
I honestly think that if you want to connect with people emotionally, you need to either understand how the human psyche works at a deeper level.. I'm certainly no expert, but I cay say that I feel you would benefit through learning.
Other than that?? Man, I hope this isn't too insensitive.. Most of us have issues like these, don't feel like you're really alone... As a matter of a fact, I think most people walk around feeling like they're all alone.. And guess what? That's probably OK. You just haven't found the right person(s) with whom you "connect"..
I think that college might help there too, I made some of my best friends in college.. (and I was a non-trad too, I started college @ 25, best damn thing I ever did... If you're lucky you haven't made much $$ in the last year, if so, then you'll likely qualify for federal aid, as your parents income no longer matters when you turn 25..)
In any case, don't worry, I think this is normal for many around your age, god knows I felt similarly a few years ago.. (like I said, college was good for me.. I understand more, and communicate better)..
Speaking of communication, another really powerful class is "interpersonal communications" and public speaking.. I could go on, there's tons to learn.. You just have to want to understand more, and it sounds like you really do..
As per the color??? Try a color theory class :)
Feel free to PM if you need to..
//
ETA:
Unless you've been to college and had those courses.. Then.. Well, heck I have no idea ;) Maybe just try taking pictures and asking us if they feel emotive.. I'm always glad to give a yes/no if you need..
Message edited by author 2010-06-13 20:37:53. |
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06/13/2010 08:35:36 PM · #4 |
| It's difficult to understand what the problem is. Are you having issues creating portraits, processing for colour, or communicating? If you could be clearer and slightly more succinct, it would help. |
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06/13/2010 08:38:16 PM · #5 |
| Perhaps if you post examples of the types of photos you like, it would be easier to help you achieve similar results. |
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06/13/2010 08:40:01 PM · #6 |
| Are you asking for help with how color helps great portraiture, or how to develop rapport with a portrait subject when you don't really feel a connection to them? |
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06/13/2010 08:46:36 PM · #7 |
| As someone who's dealt with depression most of my life, I would strongly recommend that you seek professional counseling. Cognitive therapy helped me tremendously to understand myself & how/why I interact with others the way I do. Do it now while you're young. If I'd done it at your age, I might have had many more happy, productive & creative years. |
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06/13/2010 09:00:05 PM · #8 |
The college thing might be right on or at least I hope it is because I am starting in the fall. The military helped me start late in life :/
I think its more color processing, I dont have a problem with black and whites. I just dont see in color lol, well, I do I just dont think in color I guess. Im weird maybe?
In all honesty, I have the vision and I do connect with humans, just not normally. I dont want to be like everyone else and stuff. I want be able to express what is inside. Its a really long story in my life but ive never expressed myself, just did what everyone else has done. I vowed to not do that anymore.
What I honestly need help with is finding my style i guess.
Here are a couple pics that Im trying to figure out color wise.
  ( I only uploaded them here so I could reference them for you, im not claiming them as my own, as obvious from the copyright)...
as far as what else Im trying to figure out is this with the lighting. 
Im just trying to learn my own style, its down there, but its having difficulty with the technical aspects.
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06/13/2010 09:05:11 PM · #9 |
| One thing that seems to help is if you ask the person to talk about whatever it is that makes them interesting. I was at an airshow yesterday, looking at an old T-33 trainer that was in pieces outside a hangar. An old timer with a ballcap saying "USS Ranger" come up, so I started chatting. Seems he flew Carrier based F9F Cougars during the Korean war. Got shot down at least once. After a few minutes, I asked to take his photo with the navy plane. Granted, military aviation is a subject I have an interest in and an easy time talking about, but my point is that I think the easiest way is to get people to talk about themselves and what interests them. |
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06/13/2010 09:05:23 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
I dont connect well with people, Im always alone and I just dont get it. |
Though i am not alone, i have at least 500 to 1000 friends, my way of thinking usually do not match with people.
But i do not change it. Why? because since my way of thinking is very different it allows me to approach problems differently then a gen guy would do.
It is very good. Last 5 years , there is no engineering related algorithm on which i worked and i have not improved it in some way (or invented a way to do it, if it was impossible so far). Its like a gift i would not trade it for anything.
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06/13/2010 09:11:42 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
One thing that seems to help is if you ask the person to talk about whatever it is that makes them interesting. I was at an airshow yesterday, looking at an old T-33 trainer that was in pieces outside a hangar. An old timer with a ballcap saying "USS Ranger" come up, so I started chatting. Seems he flew Carrier based F9F Cougars during the Korean war. Got shot down at least once. After a few minutes, I asked to take his photo with the navy plane. Granted, military aviation is a subject I have an interest in and an easy time talking about, but my point is that I think the easiest way is to get people to talk about themselves and what interests them. |
You will learn fascinating things this way.. |
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06/13/2010 09:13:46 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
..i have at least 500 to 1000 friends, ... |
I think of friends as being so "expensive" in terms of time and involvement that I couldn't imagine having 20 friends.. 200 acquaintances??.. Sure... 100 friends? No chance.. Not for me at least..
Not to call you out, but surely, you did mean acquaintances right? |
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06/13/2010 09:20:05 PM · #13 |
oh i have no problem talking with them and whatnot. In fact I got approached to do a photoshoot earlier today, while I was in the bathroom nonetheless. Its for a band and they are awesome cool people. I dont really relate to their music since Im sort of a rock and roll metal kinda guy, they have this poppy techno stuff. I cant really relate to that. So I asked them to send me their music and any images that they sort of had in mind that shared their vision. From there I create a shot list of what to do and how to do it. I talk it over with them and see if they are cool with it and if it fits with what they want. Then we shoot.
I think this is the best approach to it.
I have a ton of friends but am so alone. I lose myself in a crowded room, its a lyric that fits me very well.
I dont want to change who I am, doing that for 25 years of my life has brought me anguish and I dont feel like being that person anymore, I wanna be me I guess.
Im mostly self-taught, with help from others along the way, like  judi for example that has helped me tremendously.
What I couldnt figure out on my own Ive always asked help with. Color portraiture is one of those things.
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06/13/2010 09:26:30 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
oh i have no problem talking with them and whatnot. In fact I got approached to do a photoshoot earlier today, while I was in the bathroom nonetheless. Its for a band and they are awesome cool people. I dont really relate to their music since Im sort of a rock and roll metal kinda guy, they have this poppy techno stuff. I cant really relate to that. So I asked them to send me their music and any images that they sort of had in mind that shared their vision. From there I create a shot list of what to do and how to do it. I talk it over with them and see if they are cool with it and if it fits with what they want. Then we shoot.
I think this is the best approach to it.
I have a ton of friends but am so alone. I lose myself in a crowded room, its a lyric that fits me very well.
I dont want to change who I am, doing that for 25 years of my life has brought me anguish and I dont feel like being that person anymore, I wanna be me I guess.
Im mostly self-taught, with help from others along the way, like judi for example that has helped me tremendously.
What I couldnt figure out on my own Ive always asked help with. Color portraiture is one of those things. |
FWIW, I learned more about me in college than any other subject... :) |
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06/13/2010 09:31:01 PM · #15 |
Oh I plan on learning a lot, its going to be great for sure.
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06/13/2010 09:39:10 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
Oh I plan on learning a lot, its going to be great for sure. |
Any plans for your first semester class schedule? Get it in sooner rather than later... Register on the first day you can :) That way the "cool" classes aren't filled to the brim.. |
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06/13/2010 09:48:29 PM · #17 |
Well I have to go through a test to see which classes I need to take and all that, then orientation and then I can register for classes I suppose. So another week or so then Im good. Im going for mechanical engineering which is my first love before photography. The military is paying for it and giving me extra money so Im glad for that.
until then, I have clients to seek and a world to take on with photography. It will be interesting to see for sure.
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06/13/2010 09:54:45 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by zxaar:
..i have at least 500 to 1000 friends, ... |
I think of friends as being so "expensive" in terms of time and involvement that I couldn't imagine having 20 friends.. 200 acquaintances??.. Sure... 100 friends? No chance.. Not for me at least..
Not to call you out, but surely, you did mean acquaintances right? |
I know what you mean. But even if i consider friends by people with whom i spend good amount of time and could share very private things, i would have around 200-300 i guess.
The reason is i have lived in many places through out my life and being very active in many fields - like sports arts , literature and later part of life being very good at studies too.
For example till i was 17 years i played cricket from a local club and we would have matches every weekend (with many different clubs) (5-6 years it went on). I played table tennis too and used to go to stadium every morning.
I was in a college (IIT delhi) for 5 years and lived with around 5000 to 6000 students in hostels in campus. Bound to make many friends.
Originally posted by coryboehne:
I think of friends as being so "expensive" in terms of time and involvement |
This is correct and this is why i do not make any new friends. I now live in japan and avoid making friends.
Now a days i concentrate on developing software in my engineering field and spend most of my time with it.
(but even this i have made 4-5 japanese friends and some friends from other nationalities).
Message edited by author 2010-06-13 21:55:41. |
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06/13/2010 10:00:36 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
... I just dont see in color lol, well, I do I just dont think in color I guess. Im weird maybe? |
You may be among the 10% of males who have some form of color-blindness ... perhaps not severe enough or of a type to affect your military service, but enough to throw off your perception of what looks "right" as compared as to how other see.
If you want to work on color editing, I highly recommend learning to use Curves, both on the composite and the individual color channels. Also learn to use your program's "Info" field to check the number values of some pictures you like; you can try and match those numeric values in your own similar photo and see if that improves things.
Another technique which can help make colors "pop" is to use high-radius Unsharp Mask in addition to your routine sharpening routine. For a DPC-sized image (800 pixels) try first running the Unsharp Mask filter on a somewhat flat portrait or landscape at values (from Photoshop) close to these:
Amt: 15%
Radius: 50 pixels
Threshold: 0 |
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06/13/2010 11:35:07 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
Well I have to go through a test to see which classes I need to take and all that, then orientation and then I can register for classes I suppose. So another week or so then Im good. Im going for mechanical engineering which is my first love before photography. The military is paying for it and giving me extra money so Im glad for that.
until then, I have clients to seek and a world to take on with photography. It will be interesting to see for sure. |
Be sure to apply for grants, early and often... They are the lifeblood of the professional student. |
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06/13/2010 11:36:40 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
Well I have to go through a test to see which classes I need to take and all that, then orientation and then I can register for classes I suppose. So another week or so then Im good. Im going for mechanical engineering which is my first love before photography. The military is paying for it and giving me extra money so Im glad for that.
until then, I have clients to seek and a world to take on with photography. It will be interesting to see for sure. |
Be sure to apply for grants, early and often... They are the lifeblood of the professional student. |
I second that!! I am working on my second degree! You will be so thankful for grants!! (scholarships too) |
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06/14/2010 12:53:31 AM · #22 |
im not sure if its color blindness, theres nothing wrong with my sight really. I think that its a lack of experience or that I just dont know what to look for. I get so lost in a portrait that I lose sight of the vision. Im sure everyone has had that happen before when working on minute details.
I dont need grants and scholarships, not yet anyway. Although im applying so I can pocket the extra money maybe ;)
I have the post 911 GI bill and that pays for 100% of my public school tuition rate and will give me about 2200 a month to live off of. So im glad for that :)
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06/14/2010 12:57:18 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
im not sure if its color blindness, theres nothing wrong with my sight really. I think that its a lack of experience or that I just dont know what to look for. I get so lost in a portrait that I lose sight of the vision. Im sure everyone has had that happen before when working on minute details.
I dont need grants and scholarships, not yet anyway. Although im applying so I can pocket the extra money maybe ;)
I have the post 911 GI bill and that pays for 100% of my public school tuition rate and will give me about 2200 a month to live off of. So im glad for that :) |
That is nice.. |
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06/14/2010 03:45:42 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
oh i have no problem talking with them and whatnot. In fact I got approached to do a photoshoot earlier today, while I was in the bathroom nonetheless. Its for a band and they are awesome cool people. I dont really relate to their music since Im sort of a rock and roll metal kinda guy, they have this poppy techno stuff. I cant really relate to that. So I asked them to send me their music and any images that they sort of had in mind that shared their vision. From there I create a shot list of what to do and how to do it. I talk it over with them and see if they are cool with it and if it fits with what they want. Then we shoot.
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I think you're missing the point here. You built a rapport to get "hired" but what what happens when you actually go to shoot? It sounds like you have a list of shots and probably move through them in a very contrived way. Here is a quote from Lisa Bettany, "2. Engage with your subject. As a photographer it’s really easy to get preoccupied with the technical details of a shoot and disconnect from your subject. Unfortunately, this disconnection between photographer and subject shows up like a red flag in photos. Nothing is worse than a portrait of a subject with dead, expressionless eyes. It’s something that no amount of Photoshop can fix."
The best portrait shooters have an ability to put their subject at ease in front of the camera. Here is a good quick read from one shooter's perspective on how to capture the soul of their subject: 10 Questions for Patrick Demarchelier.
Also, I know your list probably does this, but you want to build a story into the shot. However, it MUST be organic. Look at great portraits of celebrities with REAL character, notice how the photo captures their character without making an obvious attempt at doing so. Here is an example of a technically sound portrait, yet one that lacks REAL character (IMHO): Heath Ledger 1 . Now compare that one to this (yes, I realize it's a painting) Heath Ledger 2. (Edit to add: note the difference in his eyes between 1 and 2, now think again about Lisa B's quote.)
Lastly, for some great musician/band photography, check out Norman Seeff.
- Alex
Message edited by author 2010-06-14 03:47:27.
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06/14/2010 02:15:33 PM · #25 |
| I suppose its a case by case basis, I dont just shoot them and make them look bad. But at the same time, I dont exactly know how to engage that person to get an emotion on camera. Thats exactly what I was talking about. |
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