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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> I'm not apologizing for my disqualification.
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06/03/2010 09:58:07 AM · #26
The intent of allowing multiple captures is... not to permit a subject from one scene to be inserted into a different scene, nor is it intended to allow a subject to appear in multiple places within a scene. You must create your entry from 1-10 captures of a single scene (defined as a scene whose composition/framing does not change).

If you appear in several places within the entry, then you violate the first part. If something significant appears in a different place from shot to shot or you're framing a different area (panoramas), then you violate the second part. The camera CAN actually move slightly (for example a burst of handheld shots) as long as the scene within the framed area does not change. I don't see how anyone could argue the entry in question legal, and true creativity is finding ways to accomplish your vision within the rules.
06/03/2010 10:03:41 AM · #27
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

The scene looked pretty consistent to me considering its exactly what my driveway looks like. I think the fact that this is such a simple process and no one knew how to do it is why I was really disqualified, or at least I certainly feel that way.


You really think you're the only one on the site that could figure this out?

Originally posted by Wildfire9:

This image was made up of 4 separate photographs all correlating to one particular scene... my driveway. I... the subject (not the scene, by definition) changed... but the scene did not. It was less than 10 photographs, so basically to disqual me for this is to say anyone who enters a panoramic shot will be dq'ed.


Anyone the enters a multiple image (stitched) panoramic will be disqualified in Advanced Editing. So, I wouldn't feel so persecuted if I were you.
06/03/2010 10:04:54 AM · #28
I really like DP Challenge and the Advanced Rules really work to keep this site successful. There are plenty of other web sites where we can use far more sophisticated edits, composites, an effects. But this is the site that taught me how to really get to know my camera, how to use Photoshop, and how to create a decent photograph without relying on any gimmicks. (I am also a guitarist and it is like learning to really play the guitar without using 15 effects pedals for distortion and reverb etc. Anybody can sound like a rock musician with all those effects - put what do they sound like on an acoustic guitar....?)

The Rules keep a more level playing field and allows new comers to produce ever-improving images without being too intimated by the guys who are able to really push the limits. I think DP Challenge accomplishes exactly what it was meant for. I submit to several web sites and the rules here really challenge me to create good work while sticking with more of the basics. That is good.

The important thing is to not take ourselves, or our pictures, too seriously. If I get a little better each month by working the challenges, then I am quite grateful.
06/03/2010 10:05:27 AM · #29
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

In all actuality I hoped this wouldn't be dq'ed but in the end it did. But I guess that means I'm doing my job as an artist. Look, I didn't join DPC to try and emulate my favorite stock photo, I joined it because I thought it would help my ability as a photographer... and indeed it did. I've not only learned a great deal more than when I started, I'm learning and delving into some really fun and experimental stuff... and I was HOPING DPC might be on the creative level. I guess I hoped for too much.

I consider this Disqualification an absolute artistic success and a slap in the face of Digital Photo Challenge. Van Gogh never sold a piece in his life because he was told his artwork wouldn't conform and no one would like it.

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!


By telling us that you "hoped it wouldn't be dq'd", I get the feeling that you had some inkling that it would be, and that you might have been doing something against the rules. You should have asked for clarification before entering, rather than getting dq'd and bitching about it.
06/03/2010 11:58:01 AM · #30
Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by Wildfire9:

The scene looked pretty consistent to me considering its exactly what my driveway looks like. I think the fact that this is such a simple process and no one knew how to do it is why I was really disqualified, or at least I certainly feel that way.


You really think you're the only one on the site that could figure this out?



Indeed... As a matter of a fact, some users are so clever as to be able to appear multiple times in a scene ... And do it legally... :)
06/03/2010 12:14:27 PM · #31
I believe I've read threads where ppl threatened to leave (or left) because they didn't like EXPERT editing because it was no longer focused enough on photography.
06/03/2010 12:19:45 PM · #32
Once upon a time -- a very short time, as it turned out -- what you did was legal. After much hue and cry and wringing of hands, such alchemy was banished from the kingdom by good King ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/1.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/1.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Langdon and his advisors, except for special celebrations under the direction of experts, lest it be too much abused..
06/03/2010 12:19:48 PM · #33
My one and only DQ... ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/796/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_629744.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/796/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_629744.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' ...accepted and moved on.
06/03/2010 12:31:34 PM · #34
Originally posted by scalvert:

..... The camera CAN actually move slightly (for example a burst of handheld shots) as long as the scene within the framed area does not change. ..


wiggle wiggle wiggle.....Well, "does not change" or can it "slightly" change? Which is it... and will this group of SC see it the same each and every time the same as the next group? I doubt it.

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 12:32:15.
06/03/2010 12:52:42 PM · #35
Wow, I seem to have quite a bit of support here.

I think the admin should reconsider, I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.

It also seems that some of you are actually making-up rules that aren't spelled out exactly that way in the written rules. That activity is solely reserved for Fox News and has no place on DPC.

As far as all of you who are defending rules and regulations.... I dare you all to get disqualified in the next round! Actually, that would be pretty fun, an entire challenge full of nothing but DQ's. I implore you ALL to do so!

06/03/2010 12:57:54 PM · #36
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I think the admin should reconsider, I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.


Don't flatter yourself. The rules were clear on this point, and you simply failed to read them carefully.
06/03/2010 12:58:51 PM · #37
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I think the admin should reconsider, I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.


You haven't found a loophole. The panorama component of your shot has never been legal in advanced editing. It's all been gone over before.

R.
06/03/2010 01:05:44 PM · #38
I don't know about stifling creativity, but the DPC does offer at least one tutorial on making the subject appear more than once in the final composition.

Stitched panoramas have never been legal -- there is no "loophole" about that.

I've been disqualified more than once -- for reasons far less valid than yours. It's really not that big a deal.
06/03/2010 01:10:05 PM · #39
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

Wow, I seem to have quite a bit of support here.

I think the admin should reconsider, I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.

It also seems that some of you are actually making-up rules that aren't spelled out exactly that way in the written rules. That activity is solely reserved for Fox News and has no place on DPC.

As far as all of you who are defending rules and regulations.... I dare you all to get disqualified in the next round! Actually, that would be pretty fun, an entire challenge full of nothing but DQ's. I implore you ALL to do so!


You are just a wee bit delusional aren't you? Oh you are going to be entertaining to watch... :)
06/03/2010 01:22:49 PM · #40
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.


Sort of reminds me of a child who invents the peanut butter sandwich! Just because you didn't know does not mean that it is unknown. IF you stick around, you MIGHT learn that many many people have gone down this path, you are no bold explorer blazing new trails, but treading a well worn path, that happens to be a dead end.

Its not an easy line to always see, one lovely multiple image shot happened to use a swan that wandered into the frame during multiple exposures and that too was DQed. Moving the camera around to capture completely different frames to compile into a single image is not exactly a fresh new invention in digital photography, and it is pretty clearly illegal under all but special rule sets, which do occur , rarely, here.

The rule against using images that are composed of frames that are substantially different is a long standing rule, and you thought you found a loophole, but it turns out it was just a noose. You decided to stick your head in it.

06/03/2010 01:23:11 PM · #41
Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by scalvert:

..... The camera CAN actually move slightly (for example a burst of handheld shots) as long as the scene within the framed area does not change. ..


wiggle wiggle wiggle.....Well, "does not change" or can it "slightly" change? Which is it... and will this group of SC see it the same each and every time the same as the next group? I doubt it.


To me, this addresses not using a tripod but wanting to bracket for HDR. The camera will move a little with each shot, but when combined for HDR they will all be "lined up" so the parts used will all be the same. I doubt this would produce different opinions by various SC members.
06/03/2010 01:28:42 PM · #42
"I'm not apologizing for my disqualification."

Who asked you to apologize?

I have been DQ'd before. Yes, it burns when you are new, and overlook the rule set, usually unintentionally.
But over time, as you have calmed down, you would agree that rules are for good. And unless you were getting showered by all 10's and 9's, I wonder whether this complaining is going to do any good.

Move on my friend. Let's learn from each other, and our mistakes. It takes a big man to admit their faults.

06/03/2010 01:34:49 PM · #43
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

"you've not only managed to chase me off but you've also proven to me what this website's motives are


Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!


as a side note, you might want to get your lithium level checked
06/03/2010 01:51:36 PM · #44
Originally posted by David Ey:

Well, "does not change" or can it "slightly" change? Which is it... and will this group of SC see it the same each and every time the same as the next group? I doubt it.


I am not on the SC but I have always assumed that it has the same touchstone as the editing rule. Would a person describing the image describe it differently before and after the edit? You can remove minor elements, but not major ones.

The same logic applied to composted images would lead to a series that would have all the major elements with some slight variation, but not so much that our theoretical viewer would describe them as substantially different.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, a DPC image is not a deviantART image, and thats is to the good.
06/03/2010 02:19:43 PM · #45
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

Wow, I seem to have quite a bit of support here.

....

I dare you all to get disqualified in the next round! Actually, that would be pretty fun, an entire challenge full of nothing but DQ's. I implore you ALL to do so!


It seems with this thread, as with the rules, you are seeing what you want to see: I don't see "quite a bit of support here" and, in fact, just the opposite.

Though you equate breaking rules with being creative and being an artist, it is not necessarily so. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square. Most rectangles are not squares. Sometimes being a rule-breaker is just being a rule-breaker. Breaking rules for the sake of breaking rules is not creative or artistic at all. When you watch your favorite team play, do you want the other team to be "creative, artistic" and flaunt the rules, or do you want them to play by the rules everyone else does, for a fair competition?

If you don't like or want rules placed on your art, competitions & challenges here are not the best venue for it. There are lots of alternative ways to share your work here without worrying about rules, and there are other sites that may have rules which fit your style of photography.

But to enter a challenge here, with clear rules that you anticipated would mean your entry could get DQ'd if checked, and then accuse others of being small-minded when it was, is itself, well, kinda small-minded don't you think?

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 14:25:13.
06/03/2010 02:20:05 PM · #46
Tut, tut, tut. Much ado....

General E: Aunt Polly thinks you meant that you have been dq'd for "less important" reasons rather than for "less valid" ones. Aunt Polly doesn't want you making the sand trap any worse than it has to be.

And Prash, Aunt Polly isn't a big man, but she is always happy to learn from "their faults."
06/03/2010 02:20:22 PM · #47
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

Wow, I seem to have quite a bit of support here.

I think the admin should reconsider, I wiggled through a loophole and you all just don't like it.

It also seems that some of you are actually making-up rules that aren't spelled out exactly that way in the written rules. That activity is solely reserved for Fox News and has no place on DPC.

As far as all of you who are defending rules and regulations.... I dare you all to get disqualified in the next round! Actually, that would be pretty fun, an entire challenge full of nothing but DQ's. I implore you ALL to do so!


Listen poppet - dont get upset about it - you DID break the rules and quite rightly got a DQ for your efforts. My last entry was DQ`d - in fact I was the one who requested the DQ - it was only when I realized it was a Basic editing challenge and I had added a vignette that I thought I would fess up and take the DQ on the nose.

You, however, think the thing to do is to stamp your feet, create a post stating you are not going to apologize for the DQ and act like a petulant child, then try to garner support for a `mass DQ` in the next challenge (LMFAO @ THAT!!). Guess what, I and most probably others here don't give a shit if you apologize or not. DQs happen all the time - SC, as much as some of them are annoying as hell, have written a good set of rules and you didn't find a loophole to wiggle through.

Good luck in your next challenge if you enter one, although I reckon you probably wont stick around too long as you are not happy with the rules and seem to want to fight against them instead of abiding by them.

Close the door on the way out.

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 14:36:29.
06/03/2010 02:25:04 PM · #48
Originally posted by chaimelle:

To me, this addresses not using a tripod but wanting to bracket for HDR. The camera will move a little with each shot, but when combined for HDR they will all be "lined up" so the parts used will all be the same. I doubt this would produce different opinions by various SC members.

I have been experimenting with this for the current challenge. I think one of the keys to making sure it is legal (and rectangular) is to crop away all of the overhanging edges which do not line up -- what's left in the center will be a static scene shot at different exposures, suitable for HDR.

BTW: the HDR software I got wants the images aligned within less than one pixel of offset!

This is how I interpret the rules about aligning and compositing HDR images for DPC Advanced rules challenges:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/1031/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_887918.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/1031/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_887918.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Originally posted by tnun:

Tut, tut, tut. Much ado....

General E: Aunt Polly thinks you meant that you have been dq'd for "less important" reasons rather than for "less valid" ones. Aunt Polly doesn't want you making the sand trap any worse than it has to be.

Perhaps ... though my two most recent DQ's were on subjective grounds (that tricky Artwork rule), whereas this DQ is based on a purely objective reading of the rules -- it is only a matter of whether the subject appears more than once, not does the subject appear -- in the varying opinions of different SC members -- "too many" times.

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 14:32:02.
06/03/2010 03:07:15 PM · #49
Originally posted by chaimelle:

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by scalvert:

..... The camera CAN actually move slightly (for example a burst of handheld shots) as long as the scene within the framed area does not change. ..


wiggle wiggle wiggle.....Well, "does not change" or can it "slightly" change? Which is it... and will this group of SC see it the same each and every time the same as the next group? I doubt it.


To me, this addresses not using a tripod but wanting to bracket for HDR. The camera will move a little with each shot, but when combined for HDR they will all be "lined up" so the parts used will all be the same. I doubt this would produce different opinions by various SC members.

Bingo.
06/03/2010 03:15:53 PM · #50
I think Scar is talking about hand shake without the tripod. The photo is a tiny bit off with each hand held shot lol

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 15:16:11.
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