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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> I'm not apologizing for my disqualification.
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06/03/2010 01:16:02 AM · #1
Dear DPC.

This is now the second time I've been disqualified from a challenge. The first time was due to my own misgivings in reading the rules and regulations. This time I feel it was unjust and unfair of the DPC council to rule in that fashion. I'm writing today to express my dissatisfaction for the too-stringent rules put in place to garner creativity during the ADVANCED CHALLENGES. I interpret an Advanced Challenge as a challenge where many of the normal guidelines are thrown out and extra room is given to creative expression. But alas, DPC, you've proven yourself to be too concerned with rules and regulations rather than the creative efforts that go into making a highly edited photograph.
What's truly ironic is that my photo had such minimal post processing, it wasn't multi-bracketed HDR, and it was well within the challenge rules... or at least the ones I read.
Apparently I'm not allowed to do panoramic photographs. Yeah.. who knew. I suggest to the DPC crew to actually put that in writing in your rules and regulations and be thankful for the fact that I'm not a paying member, if I was I would demand my money back.

I implore anyone who actually wants to expand their creative horizons in the field of photography to get as far away from this website as possible. They clearly don't know how to take someone who's willing to push the envelope and would rather assume punish them then allow them to shine.

Congratulations DPC, you've not only managed to chase me off but you've also proven to me what this website's motives are... money rather than creativity.

Adieu.
06/03/2010 01:26:20 AM · #2
I know the image that you are referring to. I questioned its adherence to the rules because there was several of you in the image and I didnt see how that was possible in one scene.

I love it here at DPC and I feel that you are sadly wrong about DPC not encouraging creativity. The rules are here for a reason. It does clearly state in the advance editting rules: create your entry from 1-10 captures of a single scene (defined as a scene whose composition/framing does not change). You being in several different outfits to show yourself as different personalities while very creative does not follow those rules. Those rules are in place for a reason. Bashing the whole site because you cant/wont follow them is just unfair.

**getting off my soapbox now**
06/03/2010 01:30:39 AM · #3
The scene looked pretty consistent to me considering its exactly what my driveway looks like. I think the fact that this is such a simple process and no one knew how to do it is why I was really disqualified, or at least I certainly feel that way.

This image was made up of 4 separate photographs all correlating to one particular scene... my driveway. I... the subject (not the scene, by definition) changed... but the scene did not. It was less than 10 photographs, so basically to disqual me for this is to say anyone who enters a panoramic shot will be dq'ed.

I'm pissed and let me be so.
06/03/2010 01:33:12 AM · #4
The composition changed.... as stated is against the clearly stated rules.
06/03/2010 01:35:16 AM · #5
Every competition has its odd rules. In basketball you have to throw the ball to the ground every other step. In soccer you can't use your hands. In boxing you can't kick or grab, In wrestling you can't punch, but you can grab.

When the rules say "You may combine up to ten captures of the same basic scene" it kinda means no panoramas. There are other websites, just as there are many sports, but if you play the game, don't complain about the rules. or find a game that lets you play how you like.
06/03/2010 01:36:21 AM · #6
From the advanced rule set... you may not combine captures of different scenes, move or change a feature between frames, or combine different captures to create a new scene.

I didn't see your image, but from what I know about panoramas (never done one...) you take multiple images that overlap then combine them to form one image. True? To me, that violates the rule stated above.

Just my interpretation.

Can you post the image in your workshop, and send me a link. I'm curious.

06/03/2010 01:37:14 AM · #7
The subject is part of the composition. Since the composition changed, it's not allowed.

This would most likely be allowed under the expert editing rule set.

For a panorama, the framing would have to change which it clearly states can't change to comply with the advanced editing rule set.

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 01:38:34.
06/03/2010 01:37:34 AM · #8
I think that if you wish to vent Brian, after the challenge is over might be a better time to do so. We can't see the picture. And keep in mind that the rules that you say are hampering your creativity are there to ensure that the focus is on the photography not the photoshop. Indeed, ANY photography competition you enter has rules.

If you need clarification on this particular rule (or any rule for that matter) feel free to click "help" up top and click on on "contact us". I'm sure Site Council would be happy to explain things.
06/03/2010 01:43:39 AM · #9
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I suggest to the DPC crew to actually put that in writing in your rules and regulations


Strange I didn't see this before when I read it the first time. So um...here they are. In writing:
//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_rules.php?RULES_ID=17

And the link to that page was on the entry form when you submitted your image.


eta: I did misread that statement. Nevermind...

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 01:46:31.
06/03/2010 01:49:31 AM · #10
I'm totally new and decided to try in camera multiple exposure, I didn't use photoshop at all in my recent disqualification (thanks for the kind comments those who commented, the fav and the scores) I read the rules as"you may #use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry. In-camera features applied after the capture are subject to normal editing rules." as being able to use multi exposure, I shot my image using one frame and shooting with the d3's multiple exposure feature are not applied after the capture, no photoshop. Disco'd totally, I was thinking it was possible and that being said I emailed the email for checking images before submitting and didn't get anything back which is why I submitted :)

not really worried about it. I'm not in it for the victory I'm in it for the process rules are rules and now I know that the multiple exposure feature can't be used on my camera for dpc

over at flickr they adore multiples still, that would be the place to share them maybe if you want to get your shot out there and appreciated :) I don't think it's a matter of encouraging creativity I think it's just a matter of what goes and the site conventions.

edited to add that I am kinda totally new, I popped in a year ago for a week and before that signed up years ago but never did anything with my account :)

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 01:50:35.
06/03/2010 02:05:10 AM · #11
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

Dear DPC.

This is now the second time I've been disqualified from a challenge. The first time was due to my own misgivings in reading the rules and regulations. This time I feel it was unjust and unfair of the DPC council to rule in that fashion. I'm writing today to express my dissatisfaction for the too-stringent rules put in place to garner creativity during the ADVANCED CHALLENGES. I interpret an Advanced Challenge as a challenge where many of the normal guidelines are thrown out and extra room is given to creative expression. But alas, DPC, you've proven yourself to be too concerned with rules and regulations rather than the creative efforts that go into making a highly edited photograph.
What's truly ironic is that my photo had such minimal post processing, it wasn't multi-bracketed HDR, and it was well within the challenge rules... or at least the ones I read.
Apparently I'm not allowed to do panoramic photographs. Yeah.. who knew. I suggest to the DPC crew to actually put that in writing in your rules and regulations and be thankful for the fact that I'm not a paying member, if I was I would demand my money back.

I implore anyone who actually wants to expand their creative horizons in the field of photography to get as far away from this website as possible. They clearly don't know how to take someone who's willing to push the envelope and would rather assume punish them then allow them to shine.

Congratulations DPC, you've not only managed to chase me off but you've also proven to me what this website's motives are... money rather than creativity.

Adieu.


I love how people state they are leaving and how horrible this place is and then stick around to read everyones responses. I know exactly the photo in question. I liked it, but I knew it was in violation of the rules and STILL gave you a 7. I did, however submit a challenge on it. Why should others who followed the rules fall at a score lower than yours? You broke the rules, probably not intentionally. Either get over it and stick around or leave and stay gone. The majority of us love it here. We love the community and the friends we made. I had a member put my family up for the night when our car broke down. Thats worth 30 bux a year to me no problem.
06/03/2010 02:21:21 AM · #12
Originally posted by smardaz:

I love how people state they are leaving and how horrible this place is and then stick around to read everyones responses. I know exactly the photo in question. I liked it, but I knew it was in violation of the rules and STILL gave you a 7. I did, however submit a challenge on it. Why should others who followed the rules fall at a score lower than yours? You broke the rules, probably not intentionally. Either get over it and stick around or leave and stay gone. The majority of us love it here. We love the community and the friends we made. I had a member put my family up for the night when our car broke down. Thats worth 30 bux a year to me no problem.


Ive only been here a little over 2 weeks and already I can tell I will be on this site for a VERY long time. Ive learned SO much already, pushed myself farther out of my comfort zone, met some wonderful people, gained confidence, lost confidence, gained creativity, laughed, cried, explored, and helped others. I guess thats why I got so upset with his response. I actually voted on his image too.. gave it a 7 as well even though it was going to DQ.
06/03/2010 02:41:48 AM · #13
In all actuality I hoped this wouldn't be dq'ed but in the end it did. But I guess that means I'm doing my job as an artist. Look, I didn't join DPC to try and emulate my favorite stock photo, I joined it because I thought it would help my ability as a photographer... and indeed it did. I've not only learned a great deal more than when I started, I'm learning and delving into some really fun and experimental stuff... and I was HOPING DPC might be on the creative level. I guess I hoped for too much.

I consider this Disqualification an absolute artistic success and a slap in the face of Digital Photo Challenge. Van Gogh never sold a piece in his life because he was told his artwork wouldn't conform and no one would like it.

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!
06/03/2010 02:47:34 AM · #14
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

In all actuality I hoped this wouldn't be dq'ed but in the end it did. But I guess that means I'm doing my job as an artist. Look, I didn't join DPC to try and emulate my favorite stock photo, I joined it because I thought it would help my ability as a photographer... and indeed it did. I've not only learned a great deal more than when I started, I'm learning and delving into some really fun and experimental stuff... and I was HOPING DPC might be on the creative level. I guess I hoped for too much.

I consider this Disqualification an absolute artistic success and a slap in the face of Digital Photo Challenge. Van Gogh never sold a piece in his life because he was told his artwork wouldn't conform and no one would like it.

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!


ok, at the risk of offending you, I would hesitate to compare your panoramic multi-exposure to Van Gogh....But I understand what you're getting at and still enjoy the image.
06/03/2010 02:53:58 AM · #15
Originally posted by JustCaree:

The composition changed.... as stated is against the clearly stated rules.


Exactly. Nothing more need be said.
06/03/2010 02:58:50 AM · #16
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!


Cool... We can be friends.. ;) Now go figure out how to use five mirrors and a ultra wide angle to accomplish the same feat and get some vindication... :)
06/03/2010 03:00:29 AM · #17
Originally posted by coryboehne:

Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I'm not going anywhere DPC! Your stuck with this ranting, raving, half drunk Scotsman forever!


Cool... We can be friends.. ;) Now go figure out how to use five mirrors and a ultra wide angle to accomplish the same feat and get some vindication... :)


LOL!
06/03/2010 03:02:44 AM · #18
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

I interpret an Advanced Challenge as a challenge where many of the normal guidelines are thrown out and extra room is given to creative expression. But alas, DPC, you've proven yourself to be too concerned with rules and regulations rather than the creative efforts


p.s. Expert Editing Ruleset
06/03/2010 04:00:17 AM · #19
Originally posted by Wildfire9:

This image was made up of 4 separate photographs all correlating to one particular scene... my driveway. I... the subject (not the scene, by definition) changed... but the scene did not. It was less than 10 photographs, so basically to disqual me for this is to say anyone who enters a panoramic shot will be dq'ed.


Ah. It depends upon interpretation. As I see it, you interpret scene as what you can see standing in one place. DPC sees scene as what is captured within one single frame (and for multi-exposure, no movement of camera or lens).

Personally, I think you found a creative interpretation loophole, but I am also of the mindset that DPC is stuck within its own box (like trying to shoe-horn Haystack Rock into whatever challenge <grin>).
06/03/2010 04:00:41 AM · #20
And just for the fun of it, here is a story of a creative loophole a guy in my highschool found:
I don't know how, but somehow Clinton got a hold of the janitor's key that unlocks every locker. After carefully reading through the rule-book, he came in one morning and switched every lock on one row to be three lockers down (and putting the two at the end on the beginning).
Jared came in an walked to his locker, cept he assumed he was tired because his red lock (the only one in the row) was three lockers down. "Whatever" he thought, opened the locker, threw in his backpack and brought his binder to class.
Soon enough, the school principle found that all the locker in that row were wrong and Clinton was found to blame. Yet the the rule-book only ruled against stealing or breaking locks.
Jared came back later that day, after the locks had been returned to their rightful locations. He opened his locker and his backpack was gone! Well come to find out, it wasn't stolen, just sitting three lockers down :D.
Clinton did not receive any punishment, but the rule book now states no stealing, breaking, switching, or otherwise tampering with the locks.
06/03/2010 04:07:07 AM · #21
Originally posted by Zoomdak:

And just for the fun of it, here is a story of a creative loophole a guy in my highschool found:
I don't know how, but somehow Clinton got a hold of the janitor's key that unlocks every locker. After carefully reading through the rule-book, he came in one morning and switched every lock on one row to be three lockers down (and putting the two at the end on the beginning).
Jared came in an walked to his locker, cept he assumed he was tired because his red lock (the only one in the row) was three lockers down. "Whatever" he thought, opened the locker, threw in his backpack and brought his binder to class.
Soon enough, the school principle found that all the locker in that row were wrong and Clinton was found to blame. Yet the the rule-book only ruled against stealing or breaking locks.
Jared came back later that day, after the locks had been returned to their rightful locations. He opened his locker and his backpack was gone! Well come to find out, it wasn't stolen, just sitting three lockers down :D.
Clinton did not receive any punishment, but the rule book now states no stealing, breaking, switching, or otherwise tampering with the locks.


Ha! Very funny.. My kind of guy, no doubt!... And Haystack Rock has served you well by the looks of your profile page..
06/03/2010 06:40:45 AM · #22
I'm glad you're staying around. However, regardless of what you think the rules SHOULD be, you checked a box saying you abided by those rules. If you're going to play the game, play by the rules.
06/03/2010 07:32:45 AM · #23
Originally posted by Zoomdak:

And just for the fun of it, here is a story of a creative loophole a guy in my highschool found:
I don't know how, but somehow Clinton got a hold of the janitor's key that unlocks every locker. After carefully reading through the rule-book, he came in one morning and switched every lock on one row to be three lockers down (and putting the two at the end on the beginning).
Jared came in an walked to his locker, cept he assumed he was tired because his red lock (the only one in the row) was three lockers down. "Whatever" he thought, opened the locker, threw in his backpack and brought his binder to class.
Soon enough, the school principle found that all the locker in that row were wrong and Clinton was found to blame. Yet the the rule-book only ruled against stealing or breaking locks.
Jared came back later that day, after the locks had been returned to their rightful locations. He opened his locker and his backpack was gone! Well come to find out, it wasn't stolen, just sitting three lockers down :D.
Clinton did not receive any punishment, but the rule book now states no stealing, breaking, switching, or otherwise tampering with the locks.


And that story is pretty similar to how a lot of the rules and wording of the rules on DPC have been modified over the years. People came up with loopholes, other people thought it was unfair, site councils deliberated, and new rules were made up. Maybe in the next set of 'Advanced Rules' the'lll specifically state "No panoramic images"... The rules here aren't draconian, they're the result of collaboration between everyone on here.
06/03/2010 09:22:41 AM · #24
I feel the rules are there to ensure the challenges remain photo competitions, and it does not become purely a digital art contest. There are many other good sites for that. Some of the DQ's may seem like they are for very minor and silly things, but they are there for a purpose.

Message edited by author 2010-06-03 09:22:50.
06/03/2010 09:45:08 AM · #25
Why don't the rules say "Don't move the damn camera" instead of using the word "scene"?
Could future wiggle room be the reason?
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