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05/26/2010 09:57:47 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
the rules say "include." I read "include" to mean "incorporate as a part of the composition" more than "constitute the entire composition." ...a straight-on shot of a drawing strikes me as very odd in a photography challenge. |
True, but the restriction on prominence only applies if the artwork may be mistaken for real objects. If it's not photorealistic (graffiti, illustrations, the Mona Lisa...), then you can fill the frame and the voters will decide if that's appropriate for a photography contest. |
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05/26/2010 09:59:42 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
I'm seeing some images where the photographer just took a photo of a piece of art. Well how do you judge that? |
As you see fit.
We've received a surprising number of validation requests on those entries from several people who should know better. The rules say "You may include images that are clearly recognizable as existing artwork when photographing your entry." So as long as it's obviously artwork, the part about 'judging a photo of a photo' does not apply and voters can ponder how to score a photo of artwork like you're doing now. |
1st) Happy Birthday...
2nd) Now I feel like sending some validation requests just to be a smartass... ;) By the way, I've voted on half the images, and I haven't seen one yet that I would question the legality of. All of the works I have seen so far are clearly recognizable as art...
3rd.) Not only are the shots legal, but they clearly meet the challenge... So that's why I was curious as to how others were voting them... Usually I judge on lighting, composition, creativity, meeting the challenge, and overall balance & flow... I'm not a picky voter either, these are just things I look for. So I'm thinking I may take the same route with these images... Why change up my formula that works so well? :) Anyway, I was more or less wondering how others were seeing these photos, and how they were voting... |
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05/26/2010 11:18:54 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
Originally posted by scalvert:
We've received a surprising number of validation requests on those entries from several people who should know better. The rules say "You may include images that are clearly recognizable as existing artwork when photographing your entry." So as long as it's obviously artwork, the part about 'judging a photo of a photo' does not apply and voters can ponder how to score a photo of artwork like you're doing now. |
I guess I don't know if I should know better, but I'll own up to having submitted a couple of validation requests...
What threw me off, I suppose, is that the rules say "include." I read "include" to mean "incorporate as a part of the composition" more than "constitute the entire composition."
Perhaps I never thought about it enough, since I'd have no issue with an abstract of a sculpture, but a straight-on shot of a drawing strikes me as very odd in a photography challenge. |
I'm one of those validation-requesters also. I'll own up to not having studied the latest iteration of the rule in detail before sending the requests. I'd always just taken it as a continuing article of faith that things were still where they used to be, where we could not submit entries that consisted *solely* of pre-existing artwork, unless something was done *with* the art to make the photo interpretive.
I'll also confess to being a little boggled that on a photography website it's now OK across the board to enter reproductions of drawings and paintings for judging. But upon reflection, I guess that makes a weird sort of sense, because the issue was always "where to draw the line", and with this version it's now just up to the voters to decide how acceptable it is.
But I'll hypothesize something interesting for ya, then: suppose one of our members had been a master of photo-realistic painting, and submitted an image s/he had painted that was indistinguishable from a photograph? What now? Fooling the voters, right?
If I'd thought this through, I might have had some fun entering an actual photo and claiming it was an example of photorealism...
R.
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05/26/2010 11:28:14 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'll also confess to being a little boggled that on a photography website it's now OK across the board to enter reproductions of drawings and paintings for judging. |
The rule was relaxed to allow for things like macros of money that previously would have been DQ'd as artwork even though the voters know what they're looking at and can judge accordingly.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
suppose one of our members had been a master of photo-realistic painting, and submitted an image s/he had painted that was indistinguishable from a photograph? |
A photo of an obvious illustration or painting is as legal as a photo of graffiti, sculpture or a building, but if the image can be mistaken for real objects (the voters assume they're judging a photo of a 'live' scene), then the artwork cannot be so prominent that we're judging a photo of a photo. |
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05/26/2010 11:32:40 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
suppose one of our members had been a master of photo-realistic painting, and submitted an image s/he had painted that was indistinguishable from a photograph? |
A photo of an obvious illustration or painting is as legal as a photo of graffiti, sculpture or a building, but if the image can be mistaken for real objects (the voters assume they're judging a photo of a 'live' scene), then the artwork cannot be so prominent that we're judging a photo of a photo. |
Oh, I understand that. I'm just giggling over this juicy irony: say I'm a photorealistic painter, and I go out and shoot a beautiful scene, or a finely-lit studio portrait, then proceed to paint from that scene so they are indistinguishable. I enter a shot of the painting in the challenge, and get DQ'd because I've done such a good job it LOOKS like a real photograph...
You have to admit that's a juicy bit of irony? I'm not saying it invalidates this approach to the rules, which is actually a sensible one, but hey, nothing's perfect, right?
R.
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05/26/2010 11:39:49 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I enter a shot of the painting in the challenge, and get DQ'd because I've done such a good job it LOOKS like a real photograph...
You have to admit that's a juicy bit of irony? |
Not really. Doing so would allow you to edit without restriction prior to taking the photo. Just because you're capable of illustrating a fantastic scene to look photorealistic doesn't mean it's fair or appropriate to enter a photo of a "photo." |
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05/26/2010 11:50:20 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
What threw me off, I suppose, is that the rules say "include." I read "include" to mean "incorporate as a part of the composition" more than "constitute the entire composition." |
But I didn't see any work submitted here that might fool the voters into thinking that they were seeing something other than what it is, which is the intent of the no art work rule. A photograph of a family behind a food shot might make us think that the family really was in the frame, and we are mislead. The same photograph, in a frame, mounted on a wall carries no such deception. How interesting a subject for a photograph it is remains to be seen, but a boring choice need not be an illegal one. |
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05/26/2010 12:04:09 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
On the downside, getting a comment praising the shot and telling you they aren't voting. :/ |
Geez, I do that all the time - figured if I am not voting but I love a shot I'd at least let them know. |
A lot of people do this for their own reasons. Personally, I think it's like a slap in the face even if you are praising their shots. It's great that you like their shots enough to comment, but truth be told this is a photography challenge contest, and YOUR vote along with other people who like the photo a lot, but fail to score it are hurting the photographer. You COULD be bumping their score up circumstantially, and making them happy at the same time. So even when you say you like their photo...most people are thinking to themselves (at least I am)...I'm thrilled you like my photo, but thanks for not helping me score higher. Like I said...a slap in the face. Of course I see the world through different glasses I suppose. |
A slap in the face? Really?
I think it's kind of like drowning in two inches of water - stand up already! I typically don't vote in challenges I am in, because as much as I think I am unbiased there are times I may not be. If I have an image I love and it's tanking, am I truly unbiased? I'd like to think I am - but perhaps I'm not. I also, might love a photo but don't think it meets the challenge (IMHO). For instance, I loved a shot in a challenge that was shot outdoors for a studio shot. I may love the shot - but according to my interpretation of the challenge it didn't fit and would have gotten a low score even though I loved it and may have said so.
So, be careful what you wish for. Just because someone loves your image doesn't mean that they would vote it high if it doesn't fit the challenge topic which IS what this site is about.
One other thing to consider: People might be commenting first and wanting to make sure if they leave a nice comment and you happen to get tagged with a 2 by someone that they know it wasn't you. They may be coming back later in the week to vote - perhaps they don't have time at that moment but still wanted to comment on how moved they were by your photo.
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05/26/2010 12:32:55 PM · #59 |
I had a comment that they were not voting on mine alone, but were voting in this challenge, what is up with that? lol
Votes: 36
Views: 91
Avg Vote: 4.8056
Comments: 3
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05/26/2010 12:44:08 PM · #60 |
Whoohooo I am rocking this challenge!!!
5.2 |
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05/26/2010 03:02:50 PM · #61 |
OMG - I've climbed all the way back up to a 5.1. I smell a ribbon!
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05/26/2010 03:08:41 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
When I see a thread full of low scores it's obvious who and why are voting. |
Maybe... just maybe... and I'm just throwing this option out there... everyone who posted in the thread has a bit of a rubbish photo? :O
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05/26/2010 03:09:30 PM · #63 |
| I started off in Foursville and briefly saw a 3.66 last night. #@*%& art critics! ;-P |
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05/26/2010 03:12:55 PM · #64 |
I have a 6... |
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05/26/2010 03:49:11 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Konador:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
When I see a thread full of low scores it's obvious who and why are voting. |
Maybe... just maybe... and I'm just throwing this option out there... everyone who posted in the thread has a bit of a rubbish photo? :O |
Like I said in the original post...not likely purely based on probability, statistics and DPC scoring thread history. |
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05/26/2010 03:51:44 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
On the downside, getting a comment praising the shot and telling you they aren't voting. :/ |
Geez, I do that all the time - figured if I am not voting but I love a shot I'd at least let them know. |
A lot of people do this for their own reasons. Personally, I think it's like a slap in the face even if you are praising their shots. It's great that you like their shots enough to comment, but truth be told this is a photography challenge contest, and YOUR vote along with other people who like the photo a lot, but fail to score it are hurting the photographer. You COULD be bumping their score up circumstantially, and making them happy at the same time. So even when you say you like their photo...most people are thinking to themselves (at least I am)...I'm thrilled you like my photo, but thanks for not helping me score higher. Like I said...a slap in the face. Of course I see the world through different glasses I suppose. |
A slap in the face? Really?
I think it's kind of like drowning in two inches of water - stand up already! I typically don't vote in challenges I am in, because as much as I think I am unbiased there are times I may not be. If I have an image I love and it's tanking, am I truly unbiased? I'd like to think I am - but perhaps I'm not. I also, might love a photo but don't think it meets the challenge (IMHO). For instance, I loved a shot in a challenge that was shot outdoors for a studio shot. I may love the shot - but according to my interpretation of the challenge it didn't fit and would have gotten a low score even though I loved it and may have said so.
So, be careful what you wish for. Just because someone loves your image doesn't mean that they would vote it high if it doesn't fit the challenge topic which IS what this site is about.
One other thing to consider: People might be commenting first and wanting to make sure if they leave a nice comment and you happen to get tagged with a 2 by someone that they know it wasn't you. They may be coming back later in the week to vote - perhaps they don't have time at that moment but still wanted to comment on how moved they were by your photo. |
It takes longer to comment than to click a number with your mouse or hit it on the keyboard....don't you think?
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05/26/2010 03:55:08 PM · #67 |
the not voting thing could be that they are not able to vote to 20 % but saw your image and wanted you to know that they liked it... i know when i was just a registared user I would comment on challenges that i couldnt vote on I dunno... i guess i like to think the best about people.
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05/26/2010 03:56:05 PM · #68 |
I'm a bit confused on how to score some of these images. Is a tool used to create art, art in itself? Can a pencil, a chisel or a musical instrument without a hand wielding it, or a finished piece resting near it, be considered to have fulfilled the challenge of "show what you do"? Can potential be judged to be result?
I have a whole bunch of unscored images waiting for clarity.
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05/26/2010 03:59:07 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I'm a bit confused on how to score some of these images. Is a tool used to create art, art in itself? |
Very broadly I'd answer this "yes," but I didn't think this was so much what the challenge was about.
The challenge description says "Show what else you do." To me, that meant depicting some part of some other creative venture--whether final product, the process, the materials, or the tools.
I finished a first pass of voting and had no problem scoring pictures of tools highly. Where I ran into most trouble was where it was a picture of some "thing" with no indication that the photographer had anything to do with the thing photographed or the creation of it. |
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05/26/2010 03:59:20 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I'm a bit confused on how to score some of these images. Is a tool used to create art, art in itself? Can a pencil, a chisel or a musical instrument without a hand wielding it, or a finished piece resting near it, be considered to have fulfilled the challenge of "show what you do"? Can potential be judged to be result?
I have a whole bunch of unscored images waiting for clarity. |
Well since you aren't supposed to take a a picture of art and post it (against rules) I took those that took pictures of tools, instruments, etc. as a creative way for people to show their art without taking a snapshot of their artwork. imho
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05/26/2010 04:01:51 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I'm a bit confused on how to score some of these images. Is a tool used to create art, art in itself? |
Very broadly I'd answer this "yes," but I didn't think this was so much what the challenge was about.
The challenge description says "Show what else you do." To me, that meant depicting some part of some other creative venture--whether final product, the process, the materials, or the tools.
I finished a first pass of voting and had no problem scoring pictures of tools highly. Where I ran into most trouble was where it was a picture of some "thing" with no indication that the photographer had anything to do with the thing photographed or the creation of it. |
I agree... I did find that I marked lower scores for those who took "snapshots of a drawing" without any creativity. Or those where it literally looked like the image was scanned or the portait was the only thing captured... I scored higher for those who used creativity in their capture.
Message edited by author 2010-05-26 16:02:25.
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05/26/2010 04:05:14 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by JustCaree:
Well since you aren't supposed to take a a picture of art and post it (against rules) I took those that took pictures of tools, instruments, etc. as a creative way for people to show their art without taking a snapshot of their artwork. imho |
There is no prohibition of taking pictures of art, the only restriction has to do with trying to trick the viewer into thinking that photograph (painting, sculpture, ect) is something it is not. Scoring well is another issue, but there is no per se prohibition on including images of art pieces. |
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05/26/2010 04:10:43 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by JustCaree:
Well since you aren't supposed to take a a picture of art and post it (against rules) I took those that took pictures of tools, instruments, etc. as a creative way for people to show their art without taking a snapshot of their artwork. imho |
There is no prohibition of taking pictures of art, the only restriction has to do with trying to trick the viewer into thinking that photograph (painting, sculpture, ect) is something it is not. Scoring well is another issue, but there is no per se prohibition on including images of art pieces. |
oh I misread the rules... well I didnt hack them... my score average after voting 100% was a 6.5 I just scored them lower... because to me thats scoring the art itself not the photograph...
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05/27/2010 02:23:59 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
On the downside, getting a comment praising the shot and telling you they aren't voting. :/ |
Geez, I do that all the time - figured if I am not voting but I love a shot I'd at least let them know. |
A lot of people do this for their own reasons. Personally, I think it's like a slap in the face even if you are praising their shots. It's great that you like their shots enough to comment, but truth be told this is a photography challenge contest, and YOUR vote along with other people who like the photo a lot, but fail to score it are hurting the photographer. You COULD be bumping their score up circumstantially, and making them happy at the same time. So even when you say you like their photo...most people are thinking to themselves (at least I am)...I'm thrilled you like my photo, but thanks for not helping me score higher. Like I said...a slap in the face. Of course I see the world through different glasses I suppose. |
A slap in the face? Really?
I think it's kind of like drowning in two inches of water - stand up already! I typically don't vote in challenges I am in, because as much as I think I am unbiased there are times I may not be. If I have an image I love and it's tanking, am I truly unbiased? I'd like to think I am - but perhaps I'm not. I also, might love a photo but don't think it meets the challenge (IMHO). For instance, I loved a shot in a challenge that was shot outdoors for a studio shot. I may love the shot - but according to my interpretation of the challenge it didn't fit and would have gotten a low score even though I loved it and may have said so.
So, be careful what you wish for. Just because someone loves your image doesn't mean that they would vote it high if it doesn't fit the challenge topic which IS what this site is about.
One other thing to consider: People might be commenting first and wanting to make sure if they leave a nice comment and you happen to get tagged with a 2 by someone that they know it wasn't you. They may be coming back later in the week to vote - perhaps they don't have time at that moment but still wanted to comment on how moved they were by your photo. |
It takes longer to comment than to click a number with your mouse or hit it on the keyboard....don't you think? |
Well then I could give a comment and a high score - but if I don't come back with more time and at least log in 20% my high score won't count any way. Is that really what you want? I pretend boost your score?
edited for grammer :-)
Message edited by author 2010-05-27 15:05:23. |
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05/27/2010 02:25:23 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by Konador:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
When I see a thread full of low scores it's obvious who and why are voting. |
Maybe... just maybe... and I'm just throwing this option out there... everyone who posted in the thread has a bit of a rubbish photo? :O |
Like I said in the original post...not likely purely based on probability, statistics and DPC scoring thread history. |
It is likely and probable that people are posting their scores (perhaps higher scores) in their private DPL threads AND that misery loves company. |
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