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06/11/2004 11:47:00 AM · #1 |
| I'm going to just say that it is frusterating when you get a photo to critique and look at the photographer and see that they don't mark any comments as helpful. That leads me to believe If I spend the time and effort into making a helpful comment for that photo, It probably wont get acknowledged as so. They way I see it...you asked for something (a detailed critique) I gave it to you. The LEAST you could do is give me something in return, in the way of checking that box. If it in fact is NOT helpful, than so be it. But a little something in return really is nice once in awhile. |
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06/11/2004 10:35:23 AM · #2 |
| There is such a backlog that many who request it never receive a CC critique; there are some photographers who never check any comment as helpful. Two separate problems. I think the answer for the first is to stress that people should not request a CC review automatically on every photo they enter in a challenge. To do so overburdens the system and will likely degrade the quality of the critiques the CC members do. Perhaps the idea of removing the checkbox for requesting the indepth CC review from the submission page, and making it available elsewhere, is an idea who's time has come. Personally, I gave up on getting an indepth review from CC after my first few submossions and have rarely checked the box since. |
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06/11/2004 09:35:36 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
It is my understanding, from a previous thread, when a critique is requested for a photo, that photo goes into a queue (first come - first served) and are then drawn from that queue once critiquing starts for that challenge. |
I believe photos are presented to the CC reviewers as random selections from the pool of available photos, not in the order they were submitted.
It sounds like when people have a photo to review, they first go look at the photographer's profile (where you find out how many comments are "helpful"). I think that turns it more into an overall review of the photographer (as evidenced by this thread), rather than of the photograph. I'm not sure that's appropriate for the CC, at least for the run-of-the mill review. It might be better if the photo were still anonymous, like when we initially vote/commennt. |
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06/11/2004 09:25:59 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by photom:
Let's all remember that critique club comments are "After the fact." During the challenge - it's easy to see when the comment number go up - and go take a peek.
Unfortunately, after the challenge is over, there's no way a person can easily tell if a Critique Club Critique was added unless they make a special effort to look at each photo.
I suspect there are quite a few CC Critiques that the photographer does not know are out there.
Perhaps there's some way to tell him or her on their home page?
(Spelling edit) |
Anybody can tell if they have new comments by looking at the number of comments received on the left of their profile page. If the number has gone up, you can click on the number to look at the comments. |
This is quite true, but who can remember the exact number of comments that each photo received, and who has the time to go and look at each photo to see if there are new comments added? I for one, would like to know when a new comment has been added to a photo, similar to what is done on photosig.com.
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06/11/2004 09:11:33 AM · #5 |
If you spend a lot of time and thought on a critique (and kudos to you for doing that), maybe take another minute or two and send a quick PM to the person.
I rarely go to my profile page, so I do not know when a comment has been added. I would love to see a feature where it was "automatic" ("You have just received a comment on suchandsuch picture" notification type thing), or even have a button so that you don't have to go to the profile page, but until then, if you really want your critique to be seen (and I can understand that) send them a PM.
:-)
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06/11/2004 09:09:34 AM · #6 |
I don't think the "helpful" box is stupid --any way of showing gratitude is almost always nice and welcome-- but this whole thread makes me wonder about its usefulness. If people get offended when someone doesn't mark a comment as helpful, then I have to wonder why we should add just one more opportunity to the site for people to become offended. It doesn't really do anything for me to see what percentage of my comments were checked as helpful -- I just assume that all my comments are helpful unless someone specifically tells me otherwise. ;-)
Maybe it would be better to get rid of the helpful box and instead add a link beneath the commenter's name that people can click to send that person a private message in reply to the comment. That would be quite a bit more personal and no one would expect a PM, which eliminates the part about feeling offended when people don't show their appreciation.
Thoughts?
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06/11/2004 08:07:35 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by mk:
Thanks.
I didn't ever say that I don't think any comments are helpful. I just happen to think that the whole checkbox thing is stupid. I appreciate all the comments I get, whether or not they are "helpful." Just a personal decision is all. |
Maybe the person that writes a nice comment does not think the checkbox is stupid.
I dont really care either way. Someone called me an asshat once, and i clicked it as helpful. :0
Message edited by author 2004-06-11 08:13:57. |
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06/11/2004 06:38:32 AM · #8 |
OK I'm new to the critique club, and I've made 4 crits so far. Each one took me a good 20mins or so to sudy the image, read the previous comments and then formulate a crit which I thought was constructive.
Now when the image was uploaded the photographer requested an indepth crit, thats a request for somebody to spend a little more time than usual giving feedback.
I would expect that if a crit was received then it is only polite for the photographer to acknowledge the fact that someone took the time to do this.
Of the 4 I have undertaken only one has been marked as useful, it does feel a little disrespectful for the photogs to ignore the comments. A simple acknowledgement is not to much to expect is it.
Falc |
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06/08/2004 04:02:26 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by photom:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Would it maybe be more educational to find out what wasn't useful about the critique that you did give ?
I always find that a dialogue about critique is more instructive than the typical monologue, though some get quite put out at the thought that their opinion could also be up for discussion, as well as the original image. |
Gordon,
You make an excellent point indeed. I'd always like to get feedback about the quality of critiques. Everything is so subjective and personal in the art world. Maybe some day, a few members of the critique club could pick a few critiques for a joint forum discussion....
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This is a great idea. I try to cover all bases, however, the format changes depending on the image. Learning how to critique is just as important as how to take a photograph (IMHO).
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06/08/2004 03:54:25 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by photom:
I would support this 100% if I knew the photographer had viewed/read my prior critiques and did not find them useful. I would rather spend my time writing critiques that help folks.
-Tom- |
Would it maybe be more educational to find out what wasn't useful about the critique that you did give ?
I always find that a dialogue about critique is more instructive than the typical monologue, though some get quite put out at the thought that their opinion could also be up for discussion, as well as the original image. |
Gordon,
You make an excellent point indeed. I'd always like to get feedback about the quality of critiques. Everything is so subjective and personal in the art world. Maybe some day, a few members of the critique club could pick a few critiques for a joint forum discussion....
In any event, I really don't worry about the ones that are not checked - I just assume they "forgot." (I do check my helpul percentange now and then - it seems to hover between 75-78 percent helpful.)
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06/08/2004 02:45:25 PM · #11 |
Okay, okay, okay...
thanks for the various opinions,
I change my mind!
I will endeavour to carry on helping other photographers without worrying about their checkbox behaviour. :-)
(Edited for terrible spelling)
Message edited by author 2004-06-08 14:46:13. |
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06/08/2004 02:40:20 PM · #12 |
| Don't leave comments for the purpose of having them checked as helpful. Leave them for your own personal growth. |
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06/08/2004 02:37:29 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
At the risk of opening up the can of worms I tried to close before, why do you think the 'whole checkbox thing is stupid'? I understand that some people want the box to say something else, like 'thanks for the comment' or 'I disagree but thanks', but I don't understand why anybody would not tick the box if someone says something helpful! |
Go look at the stats on my home page. Roughly 50% of the comments I got were before the 'is this helpful' checkbox existed. So for a start, you've got wildly skewed stats.
Second - if you don't tick a comment as helpful, various people call you out in forums, demanding an explaination - I've seen this on a variety of occasions.
It isn't required to use. It doesn't mean a whole lot if you do or dont. I tend to use it so I know if I've read a comment or not. It doesn't really mean I found them useful, though I tend to just check anything that isn't obviously stupid or missing the point completely.
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06/08/2004 02:34:02 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by karmat:
If I want to mark all (or none) that is my choice. And, quite frankly, I (or anyone else) shouldn't have to defend their choice. |
I'm not intending to put anybody on the defensive, just trying to get feedback on my earlier decision.
Maybe I do get 'bugged' by this too much...
Thanks for the feedback. |
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06/08/2004 02:33:00 PM · #15 |
| I, personally, check off most of the comments I recieve as helpful. At the very least, they help me understand what people like, and don't like, about my photos. Even if they are not suggestions on how to make the shot "technically" better, they still help me look at my shots from a different perspective. So for that, I find the comments helpful :) |
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06/08/2004 02:30:42 PM · #16 |
I mark alot of my comments helpful, as long as there is good advice or a helpful suggestion. I don't mark the ones that are judgemental / critical / rude.
I like it when I get new suggestions that can help me along with my photography. (Because I just started with my photos about a year ago or less)
On the other hand, I don't need to know if someone just doesn't get my idea, or it just isn't there for them. It was for me, or I wouldn't have submitted. :) |
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06/08/2004 02:29:29 PM · #17 |
To me, it doesn't really matter if a critique or comment was marked helpful or not. When I was doing the CC, I don't think I looked to see if the reciepient considered it helpful. I figured what I was doing was a service to the site, and helping myself become better acquainted with the ins and outs of photography.
Heck, if it bugs you that much, simply put "You never mark comments as helpful so I am pushing you through." Hit send or post or whatever and get the next one. :-)
As far as what is helpful and the "true" intent of that icon is concerned. There is no right or wrong way to use it. Some people (mk) rarely use it. That is their perogative. They don't have to. Some people (most of the time me) mark pretty much anything, even "nice" "cool" and "sucks" helpful because, as it has been pointed out in numerous times in numerous threads, different people react differently to the feedback. That course is not incorrect either.
edited because several other posts were made while I was typing
Message edited by author 2004-06-08 14:32:26.
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06/08/2004 02:27:54 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mk:
Thanks.
I didn't ever say that I don't think any comments are helpful. I just happen to think that the whole checkbox thing is stupid. I appreciate all the comments I get, whether or not they are "helpful." Just a personal decision is all. |
At the risk of opening up the can of worms I tried to close before, why do you think the 'whole checkbox thing is stupid'? I understand that some people want the box to say something else, like 'thanks for the comment' or 'I disagree but thanks', but I don't understand why anybody would not tick the box if someone says something helpful! |
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06/08/2004 02:26:46 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by photom:
I would support this 100% if I knew the photographer had viewed/read my prior critiques and did not find them useful. I would rather spend my time writing critiques that help folks.
-Tom- |
Would it maybe be more educational to find out what wasn't useful about the critique that you did give ?
I always find that a dialogue about critique is more instructive than the typical monologue, though some get quite put out at the thought that their opinion could also be up for discussion, as well as the original image.
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06/08/2004 02:24:30 PM · #20 |
Thanks.
I didn't ever say that I don't think any comments are helpful. I just happen to think that the whole checkbox thing is stupid. I appreciate all the comments I get, whether or not they are "helpful." Just a personal decision is all. |
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06/08/2004 02:20:35 PM · #21 |
Great shots mk...
can I ask why you don't think ANY comments are helpful to you? |
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06/08/2004 02:16:42 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by mk:
I don't think that the number of comments marked helpful is an accurate representation of the the receiver's appreciation but I suppose you are welcome to give critiques in any way you choose.
-raremk |
You don't think if the number is zero, that this is a good representation of the the receiver's appreciation? |
Personally, no, I do not. Some people, like me, choose not to use the "helpful" thing for any number of reasons which, as you pointed out, have been listed in previous threads. So I happen to know that in at least one case, the number marked helpful isn't an accurate representation of appreciation. However, I rarely submit and when I do, I don't ask for a CC anyway so it really makes no difference to me what you do or how you justify it. Just pointing out that it isn't always an indication of lack of apprecation. |
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06/08/2004 02:04:52 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by mk:
I don't think that the number of comments marked helpful is an accurate representation of the the receiver's appreciation but I suppose you are welcome to give critiques in any way you choose.
-raremk |
You don't think if the number is zero, that this is a good representation of the the receiver's appreciation? |
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06/08/2004 01:46:59 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I think this thread has opened up a can of worms here...
can we get back to the original question, which was whether I would be justified in not giving a CC critique to somebody who has not marked ANY comment as useful... not one, not a sausage... or left any comments saying thanks for votes and comments.
Bob |
I would support this 100% if I knew the photographer had viewed/read my prior critiques and did not find them useful. I would rather spend my time writing critiques that help folks.
-Tom-
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06/08/2004 01:46:52 PM · #25 |
I don't think that the number of comments marked helpful is an accurate representation of the the receiver's appreciation but I suppose you are welcome to give critiques in any way you choose.
-raremk |
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