| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/23/2009 08:10:33 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by Simms:
No comment from Langdon & Co yet.
Would be nice to hear his views. |
Don't hold your breath, wouldn't want you to have a "Blue Christmas" :D
Matt |
|
|
|
12/23/2009 07:42:52 PM · #2 |
No comment from Langdon & Co yet.
Would be nice to hear his views. |
|
|
|
12/23/2009 07:14:42 PM · #3 |
| I did not read every post- that being said...when I joined in 2006 , I received an enormous amount of positve critique, a warm welcome (and I was really bad-a neophyte). Now , I rarely enter challenges- why , because the feedback is not there. An opinion is offered , no more- does not help me learn anymore, sorry... |
|
|
|
12/21/2009 10:43:36 PM · #4 |
| I know how you feel Mark. Sometimes I feel that the site is filled with Hypercritical prudes. Merry Christmas to you too. |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 10:28:09 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
It's interesting, this same sentiment is appearing in several threads across DPC. "Something" obviously has gone out of this place that many of us miss, and this thread in particular has offered up several suggestions as to what that "something" may have been.
But what's going to be done about it? Already the discussion has run out and it looks to be moving to the back-burner.
Are we, as a community, going to try and see that any of these suggestions are met? Can we actually do anything to fix some of the problems we see?
Or (as I sadly suspect) is this going to be another case of "improvements coming, stay tuned," where no improvements actually appear? Enough people seem to have a similar vibe, but can we do anything to turn it into a positive change? |
Will it even matter what we do, when the only person who can possibly make any of these changes happen won't even publically acknowledge(post in the thread) that he know, cares, or wants us all to just go away? SC has nothing to do with any of this only Landgon can help.
Matt |
I'd like to think we have some influence. I think it was  Bear_Music who mentioned some sort of grassroots project in the works. It seems like if there's enough people who want to effect a change, we ought to be able to. Form a list, post photos, really work to critique them amongst ourselves, make a pledge to try and rise above the social-networking-rant-and-drama BS, and focus instead of the photography. And then if we can draw others in, welcome them "back to the fold," as it were.
But I do acknowledge the frustration in your statement, Matt. Hopeless optimism aside, I really wish that  Langdon would publicly recognize this thread and tell us something - even if he just told our vocal minority to shut-up :-) But I don't expect that will happen.
If nothing else, I have six more months of blue-shirtedness, after which I'll probably not renew. Perhaps, if nothing else works, that will send a message. (Yeah, I know, tilting at windmills.)
|
|
|
|
12/20/2009 08:32:28 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Could we just stipulate that the Site Council has come into being either by being struck by lightning or some other force that only Langdon and  Drew know about.
Then, go back to page one, and re-read Simms original post. He, and others after him, poured their hearts out in an effort to HELP the site.
It is a fine site. One that we want to keep and keep healthy.
It appears that one small paragraph has become a focal point of this thread. ... |
It may be one small paragraph, but it's large in many ways to the OP. My personal opinion is that the OP has a bone to pick with SC for some reason. Kind of a common theme with him over time, so I take this thread with a grain of sand. |
LOL, OOoooo conspiracy theories! Keep em coming!
Message edited by author 2009-12-20 20:33:15. |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 08:25:31 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Could we just stipulate that the Site Council has come into being either by being struck by lightning or some other force that only Langdon and Drew know about.
Then, go back to page one, and re-read Simms original post. He, and others after him, poured their hearts out in an effort to HELP the site.
It is a fine site. One that we want to keep and keep healthy.
It appears that one small paragraph has become a focal point of this thread. ... |
It may be one small paragraph, but it's large in many ways to the OP. My personal opinion is that the OP has a bone to pick with SC for some reason. Kind of a common theme with him over time, so I take this thread with a grain of sand. |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 08:13:41 PM · #8 |
I think this thread is being treated with the usual amount of contempt.
As I surmised, THEY will let it blow over with the usual attitude of "the natives are restless tonight" - whether or not its being discussed in the SC forum who knows?
SC, has Langdon mentioned this at all to you guys? I PM`d him the link to this thread so one assumes he has read it.
Is there a roadmap for the future of DPC? Are they already sitting on a load of changes that are due to be implemented and are keeping mum about it so they can pull it out of the bag in xxx weeks time?
Message edited by author 2009-12-20 20:14:01. |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 07:35:08 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
It's interesting, this same sentiment is appearing in several threads across DPC. "Something" obviously has gone out of this place that many of us miss, and this thread in particular has offered up several suggestions as to what that "something" may have been.
But what's going to be done about it? Already the discussion has run out and it looks to be moving to the back-burner.
Are we, as a community, going to try and see that any of these suggestions are met? Can we actually do anything to fix some of the problems we see?
Or (as I sadly suspect) is this going to be another case of "improvements coming, stay tuned," where no improvements actually appear? Enough people seem to have a similar vibe, but can we do anything to turn it into a positive change? |
You are absolutely right, the sentiment is appearing in multiple threads and it's often coming from the type of talented and communicative photographers that we need to have around. But the more I think about the changes required, the more I wonder if technical changes to the site, new capabilities etc., will actually make a different. The tone of the community seems to have changed and I don't think anybody on any social networking site today know how to manage this.
When I joined the site it seemed that everybody here ( pro or amateur, low end point and shoot owner or high end point and shoot owner, experienced or inexperienced) was serious about their photography. The majority of the conversations were about photography with some social conversation tossed in. Today we seem to have a lot of social conversation that is loosely structured around photography. Of course this is just my opinion, but I don't think the discussion has run out. |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 06:29:33 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
It's interesting, this same sentiment is appearing in several threads across DPC. "Something" obviously has gone out of this place that many of us miss, and this thread in particular has offered up several suggestions as to what that "something" may have been.
But what's going to be done about it? Already the discussion has run out and it looks to be moving to the back-burner.
Are we, as a community, going to try and see that any of these suggestions are met? Can we actually do anything to fix some of the problems we see?
Or (as I sadly suspect) is this going to be another case of "improvements coming, stay tuned," where no improvements actually appear? Enough people seem to have a similar vibe, but can we do anything to turn it into a positive change? |
Will it even matter what we do, when the only person who can possibly make any of these changes happen won't even publically acknowledge(post in the thread) that he know, cares, or wants us all to just go away? SC has nothing to do with any of this only Landgon can help.
Matt |
|
|
|
12/20/2009 06:27:06 PM · #11 |
It's interesting, this same sentiment is appearing in several threads across DPC. "Something" obviously has gone out of this place that many of us miss, and this thread in particular has offered up several suggestions as to what that "something" may have been.
But what's going to be done about it? Already the discussion has run out and it looks to be moving to the back-burner.
Are we, as a community, going to try and see that any of these suggestions are met? Can we actually do anything to fix some of the problems we see?
Or (as I sadly suspect) is this going to be another case of "improvements coming, stay tuned," where no improvements actually appear? Enough people seem to have a similar vibe, but can we do anything to turn it into a positive change?
|
|
|
|
12/19/2009 09:41:30 PM · #12 |
Could we just stipulate that the Site Council has come into being either by being struck by lightning or some other force that only Langdon and Drew know about.
Then, go back to page one, and re-read Simms original post. He, and others after him, poured their hearts out in an effort to HELP the site.
It is a fine site. One that we want to keep and keep healthy.
It appears that one small paragraph has become a focal point of this thread.
Side-tracks will get us nowhere. There is plenty of thoughtful insight in his post.
Let's discuss the rest of it.
|
|
|
|
12/19/2009 09:24:02 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by george917:
In response to your last question, they wanted to join the site because they enjoyed taking photos, and they wanted to become SC members in order to help the site grow and keep the conduct on the site appropriate. Those are two different things. Why do you have such a problem with them not being "exemplary" members? |
If you cant see it now you never will - no point in going over old ground.
Tell you what, yes you're right - well done - lets move on.
|
|
|
|
12/19/2009 07:33:45 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
I applied the last time as well and was turned down.
Matt |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 05:21:53 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. |
That is a somewhat more recent innovation -- I just got an email from Langdon. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 04:32:07 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
I cant think of anyone more qualified :D |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 04:19:03 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
 "Correctamundo!" |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 04:09:24 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by JH:
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
Not really; when SC wants more members, they post to a thread soliciting "applications", and then choose from amongst those who have volunteered themselves. Or that's how they've done it since I've been here anyway. I know, because both times I volunteered, and both times I did not make the cut :-)
R. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 04:06:12 PM · #19 |
Nobody wants to become SC.
You get volunteered. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 02:49:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by george917:
It's a simple comparison - people that work somewhere don't have to do what the visitors do. Casino employees don't have to play the slots, cops at the beach don't have to like the beach, people that work on golf courses don't have to play golf... The SC doesn't have to set an example for what members should DO on the site, but they should set an example for how members should conduct themselves. So let's stop telling the SC to act more like the "best" members, just to conduct themselves properly. And they have done nothing but that in this thread; I think we could all show a bit more respect. |
But dont you see - security guards at a casino are there as a job - they applied for the job and for whatever reason they got it, although they would of been just as happy being a secuirty guard at a different place..people who work at Golf Clubs, they may not be interested in golf, but they wanted the job as it helps pay the bills.. now the SC were selected early on (with some additions) due to their love and in some cases, knowledge of photography - thats what made them seek out this site in the first place - they didnt trawl the internet looking for any site that would have them - they wanted to join a photography site becuase they enjoyed taking photos...
can you see it yet? |
No, I can't. You think you're right, so you think I'm not seeing it. I think I'm right, so I think you're not seeing it. Imagine being the owner of a music store. What will your hiring process be? Post an ad in the paper and wait for replies, or put an ad up in your store so you only get customers applying. You don't have to like the type of customer they are, but if they deal with other customers well and are passionate about music, that's enough. Here, the passion for photography is shown by being a somewhat active registered user and being considered by Langdon a passionate photographer; being the right type of "employee" (volunteer here) is also to be judged by Langdon. So don't tell me they have to be super active members with tens of thousands of votes or hundreds of entries to qualify. Langdon has to like the way they conduct themselves and consider them passionate enough. The only passion of theirs that should concern us is their passion for the site - how do they help it grow, how do they help it (and us) mature?
In response to your last question, they wanted to join the site because they enjoyed taking photos, and they wanted to become SC members in order to help the site grow and keep the conduct on the site appropriate. Those are two different things. Why do you have such a problem with them not being "exemplary" members?
Message edited by author 2009-12-19 14:55:19. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 01:47:59 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by littlegett:
snip |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
Yes, I gave my opinions and I told how I did things. Perhaps not in the thread but on individual images when I saw the need to state something or someone specifically asked.
One thing I have become vary wary over is the offer of free advice. I will not just give my opinion on an image unless the creator specifically asks for it. My opinion can seem mean, hurtful, harsh and very critical. However I always offer my suggestions on how to improve. My opinion to the image in question. I will not just critique an image because it is posted because too many people (I have experienced) take it way to personal and flame wars start because of it. If someone says 'be harsh but nice' for a critique, I will not offer my opinion. Perhaps in my perspective I have nothing nice to say.
There have been many many times I have offered helpful suggestions for particular images, and subjects. Though you may not have heard me. Its a big website.
One thing I think as very humorous though is the idea that you believe the site can cut-out side challenges. You do understand the site has nothing to do with them right? You do understand it is the users who not only create but participate in these side challenges right? To presume the site can 'cut' them out is in my opinion ignorant. Even if the site took off the forum-thread users would post the side challenges in other topics, like they did before the forum was created. Or they would go elsewhere. The site, if it wants to stay active has very little control over the side-challenges. Sure, ban them, lose user-base, forum participation and close. Is this extremest thinking? no, I believe it to be from a realist point of view.
|
|
|
|
12/19/2009 01:38:44 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Simms:
... now the SC were selected early on (with some additions) due to their love and in some cases, knowledge of photography ... |
I think you are largely mistaken in making this assumption. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 01:17:07 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by littlegett:
I agree and disagree.... yet again....
You know there is room for everything. I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post.
I agree, 'Workshop' type threads are fantastic. If people have time for them and willingness to do them I will never say no to them.
However, a 'CHALLENGE' is also in desire.
Since you seem to be confused let me explain my feelings on a 'side' challenge vs a DPC challenge.
DPC challenge is a weekly challenge. One/Twice/Three times a week now DPC posts a challenge topic. You submit, the community votes and your image is rated by the community of voters.
Side Challenge is a monthly challenge. (number of topics may vary here because of user creation) However, a Side Challenge will run for a full month. Averaging 30 days of photos. Self Portraits, Self portraits with a theme, Forks, Black/White, Whatever. Now there are several reasons to enter a side challenge. 1 being there is no voting so there is no hurt feelings that your image did not do as well as you hoped it would. Second it forces the user to pick up the camera every day for those 30 days and take a picture. I myself have allowed months of dust to form on my camera at times. Without reason to pick it up it will sit. Third, challenge, determination, will power, it takes courage, strength and will to pick up that camera every day for 30 consecutive days. Specially when it is ontop of the rest of your life. Try 366 consecutive self portraits, that is a challenge that will test your might.
Maybe some of the 'sides' as I said before should not be considered side challenges but image threads. Because there really is no challenge to them other then posting.
However, for me, I do believe when I host a challenge I comment on each image, more then good shot. Unless that is absolutely all I can say. But I cannot speak for everyone. But I can repeat myself... you get what you give.
To me, you seem to no understand that no everyone here is an expert, or I should say that perhaps a group of users get together, none of which are experts or professionals or even know what the hell they are doing. Simple lighting basics becomes a challenge. So this group learns together in a side challenge, what works what doesn't.
Or, they do it for fun, to break the monotony of life, of regularity. Try my 30 Forking Days challenge. See how long you last and see what you get from it. Try a challenge. You say you did and you got nothing out of it. Question is, was it a challenge or was it just an image thread? Did you ask for stronger more filled out critiques or did you just let it go? How much help are you asking for? What are you asking for? What do you want? |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
Actually with the overlay challenge there were quite a few people teaching. A tutorial was posted to dpc for it as well. Quite a few people added textures to the texture gallery to further participation. And any questions asked are promptly answered. |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 12:58:26 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
I agree and disagree.... yet again....
You know there is room for everything. I am still waiting for your reply to my previous post.
I agree, 'Workshop' type threads are fantastic. If people have time for them and willingness to do them I will never say no to them.
However, a 'CHALLENGE' is also in desire.
Since you seem to be confused let me explain my feelings on a 'side' challenge vs a DPC challenge.
DPC challenge is a weekly challenge. One/Twice/Three times a week now DPC posts a challenge topic. You submit, the community votes and your image is rated by the community of voters.
Side Challenge is a monthly challenge. (number of topics may vary here because of user creation) However, a Side Challenge will run for a full month. Averaging 30 days of photos. Self Portraits, Self portraits with a theme, Forks, Black/White, Whatever. Now there are several reasons to enter a side challenge. 1 being there is no voting so there is no hurt feelings that your image did not do as well as you hoped it would. Second it forces the user to pick up the camera every day for those 30 days and take a picture. I myself have allowed months of dust to form on my camera at times. Without reason to pick it up it will sit. Third, challenge, determination, will power, it takes courage, strength and will to pick up that camera every day for 30 consecutive days. Specially when it is ontop of the rest of your life. Try 366 consecutive self portraits, that is a challenge that will test your might.
Maybe some of the 'sides' as I said before should not be considered side challenges but image threads. Because there really is no challenge to them other then posting.
However, for me, I do believe when I host a challenge I comment on each image, more then good shot. Unless that is absolutely all I can say. But I cannot speak for everyone. But I can repeat myself... you get what you give.
To me, you seem to no understand that no everyone here is an expert, or I should say that perhaps a group of users get together, none of which are experts or professionals or even know what the hell they are doing. Simple lighting basics becomes a challenge. So this group learns together in a side challenge, what works what doesn't.
Or, they do it for fun, to break the monotony of life, of regularity. Try my 30 Forking Days challenge. See how long you last and see what you get from it. Try a challenge. You say you did and you got nothing out of it. Question is, was it a challenge or was it just an image thread? Did you ask for stronger more filled out critiques or did you just let it go? How much help are you asking for? What are you asking for? What do you want? |
Actually I do realize not everyone is an expert...I'm not an expert. That is exactly what I like about this site is that those who are great can help others learn. Why have an Overlay side challenge (again not meant to call out certain challenges) without teaching those of us who don't know how to do Overlays so that we can enter and learn? You are only focusing on those who know how to do it. Shouldn't it also be helping those who don't know how?
In your fork challenge, do you give any information on good ways to light metals? How lighting of forks can be difficult?
I think this actually got away from the original reason I said that side challenges should go....For those who complain that there are too many challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I would say cut (or cut down on) for those who complain that there is not enough participation in challenges...side challenges would be the first thing I say they should cut (and one open challenge...give me more of a reason to keep renewing then just having two advanced editing challenges).
As it is...I'm happy with the site as it is...with the exception of bringing back DPL. I'm not saying side challenges bother me. I don't always agree with the point of theem |
|
|
|
12/19/2009 12:50:19 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by albc28:
I think the side challenges should be eliminated and people will be forced or obligated to step out of their comfort zone and work for the challenges that are presented.
|
You think taking 30 photos 1/day consecutively of a FORK is a comfort zone? Man you have some strange comfort zones. It was a challenge and personally, I think certain side challenges should remain, while others... should not be considered 'side challenges' but just a topic to post images in.
Side challenges can be way more beneficial then you think. Specially when the participants really participate and comment on images and communicate with each other and learn.
I was actually thinking of doing the 30 Forking Days part 2 side challenge. Spoon! Now wouldn't that be fun? I think so. What about another self portrait side challenge, those are always fun and always a huge learning experience for many people considering capturing a self portrait is one of the most difficult things for a lot of people.
To force people to be or feel obligated to only do what challenge is posted.... I would be gone for good as I am sure others would be as well. |
You are right I did miss this one. So 30 days of forks is a difficult side challenge. It does take a lot of work to be imaginative...but that doesn't make the comments any better. So you get comments like "I never thought of that" "i like that idea"...you still have a list of people who sign up for it. Not all side challenges are per month. There are just image threads that I get nothing out of.
There was a point on this site where there were no side challenges and if there were there were very few of them....and the site grew with more members. |
|
