| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/07/2009 05:30:43 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Let the real courts determine guilt, without the interference of US senators etc!! |
I do agree with you on this though. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 05:26:56 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
What a strange thread this is, so many armchair lawyers and judges. So many people with all the facts and evidence to hand that they can quote everything about this trial??
Since when did a trial in a 'foreign' country become anti anything? We have witnessed many trials for drug trafficking, murder, piracy and fraud in the news and none have sparked such a knee jerk reaction as this one. Is she guilty or not? I don't know, I haven't seen or heard the evidence, unlike many here who have already stated it was a mis-trial, a fixed verdict.
If there has been a mis-trial, there will be an appeal and everything will be happy ever after and America can turn its paranioa elsewhere. Barrack-room judges and juries will always exist and proclaim their verdicts, regardless of facts and evidence. Let the real courts determine guilt, without the interference of US senators etc!! |
Um, Steve. Are you reading the same thread as me? I've just quickly gone back over the pages and for the life of me can't find the, 'many here who have already stated it was a mis-trial, a fixed verdict.'. One person has said that she didn't get a fair trial because she was American and got shouted down, and some people have pointed out that there do seem to be suspicions raised by the media, and some elements of the prosecution case as reported do seem a bit odd. I hardly think thats down to ' armchair lawyers and judges' and 'people with all the facts and evidence to hand that they can quote everything about this trial'. Perhaps you should re-read the thread a little closer before throwing accusations around.
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 17:27:42. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 05:17:17 PM · #3 |
What a strange thread this is, so many armchair lawyers and judges. So many people with all the facts and evidence to hand that they can quote everything about this trial??
Since when did a trial in a 'foreign' country become anti anything? We have witnessed many trials for drug trafficking, murder, piracy and fraud in the news and none have sparked such a knee jerk reaction as this one. Is she guilty or not? I don't know, I haven't seen or heard the evidence, unlike many here who have already stated it was a mis-trial, a fixed verdict.
If there has been a mis-trial, there will be an appeal and everything will be happy ever after and America can turn its paranioa elsewhere. Barrack-room judges and juries will always exist and proclaim their verdicts, regardless of facts and evidence. Let the real courts determine guilt, without the interference of US senators etc!! |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:53:27 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by zxaar:
i am not aware about facts of this case but it seems amanda and her partner's story that they told to police did change. |
As I heard it, they went so far as to accuse someone else, who was arrested and jailed for two weeks before being cleared. I also heard their story "changed" more than once. |
yes this is what i find most stupid, if you have not done it, what is wrong in telling the truth directly.
Murder is not small thing. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:50:06 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
i am not aware about facts of this case but it seems amanda and her partner's story that they told to police did change. |
As I heard it, they went so far as to accuse someone else, who was arrested and jailed for two weeks before being cleared. I also heard their story "changed" more than once. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:46:20 PM · #6 |
i am not aware about facts of this case but it seems amanda and her partner's story that they told to police did change. (someone correct me if i got this wrong).
i am not sure how many of you are actually ever been accused of murder. But i had such experience. In my last year of school one of my friend committed suicide by jumping in near by lake. The day before he was at my house and then went to other friends house and in night disappeared. His father complained to police that me and my friend has killed him. Well being accused of murder is not pretty. Next day after his body was found, police took our statements. And we told very thing as happened.
Had our stories not matched, i know it was going to be very difficult.
moral of the story if you find someone died, please tell the truth from the start.
(sorry for boring you guys with personal experience). |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:35:55 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Niten:
As far as xenophobia, I must have alot of phobias then, I fear sticking my hand in fire, walking out in heavy traffic, I dont like to run around with lightning rods during a storm. |
Ah, i see what the problem is. You're confusing an irrational fear that Italians hate you with the rational fear that fire will burn you. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:26:09 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Niten:
I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. |
The convicted co-defendent was Italian. |
Yeah, but I think he only got a 25 year sentence, not 26 like she did ... |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:15:39 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Niten:
I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. |
The convicted co-defendent was Italian. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:12:57 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Don't let one persons opinion sour the place for you Giorgio. There really was only one poster who displayed any xenophobia and bigotry against Italians. |
Once again, I have no hate or intolerance of Italians. I made a coment about how I believe Amanda was railroaded partially for being American. And thats bigotry. As far as xenophobia, I must have alot of phobias then, I fear sticking my hand in fire, walking out in heavy traffic, I dont like to run around with lightning rods during a storm. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 04:00:57 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by rob_smith:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
Maybe she thought you were English?
:-P |
Haha, with how tan I got, it would be italian (half itai, half mick) |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 03:33:59 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
Maybe she thought you were English?
:-P |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 03:29:14 PM · #13 |
| For better or for worse, I don't think isolation is the way, Giorgio. I don't think you do either. Stick around? |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 03:28:56 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GiorgioBaruffi:
mah...
i'm very disappointed, as italian, of many bad words i've read here...
how easy it is to generalize instead of trying to understand...
i do not know if she is guilty or not, but if the evidences led to her, i have to believe the judges, partly because it is certainly not a process related to any attack on Americans, it is simply a case, horrible, of murder, nothing political...
italians are not only mafia, spaghetti, mandolino like americans are not only cheeseburger, racism or other bad things...
my partecipation here is in doubt now, but some of you will be happy, less italians better world...
do not replicate here, MP or e-mail (i have nothing to hide) foto_gb@yahoo.it |
Don't let one persons opinion sour the place for you Giorgio. There really was only one poster who displayed any xenophobia and bigotry against Italians. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 03:01:27 PM · #15 |
mah...
i'm very disappointed, as italian, of many bad words i've read here...
how easy it is to generalize instead of trying to understand...
i do not know if she is guilty or not, but if the evidences led to her, i have to believe the judges, partly because it is certainly not a process related to any attack on Americans, it is simply a case, horrible, of murder, nothing political...
italians are not only mafia, spaghetti, mandolino like americans are not only cheeseburger, racism or other bad things...
my partecipation here is in doubt now, but some of you will be happy, less italians better world...
do not replicate here, MP or e-mail (i have nothing to hide) foto_gb@yahoo.it
|
|
|
|
12/07/2009 02:50:37 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Me three. Since 2001, I've traveled and worked in France, Germany and Italy on numerous occasions, including a 5 week project in Italy during the fuss over the CIA's "Extraordinary Renditions" and I have experienced nothing but goodwill from nearly everyone I encountered. (Some few people were assholes, but they were assholes to the natives as well.) |
Like i said somewhere up thread, i think most people can make the distinction between opposition to american foreign policy and americans themselves. Also, when living in Egypt, it was only after i got to know someone, maybe after visiting their home and sharing a meal, that they'd be willing to really approach political subjects and then they would often get very passionate and angry. Egypt is not the safest place to get too political about certain subjects in the open. But even then, most Egyptians showed a great liking for Americans, it was the foreign policy they were most angry about. Also, bear in mind that i was living there last christmas time during the Israeli attacks on Gaza and there was tremendous anger that U.S and Europe were not stepping in. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 02:39:08 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
Same here, I’ve done a fair amount of travel since 2001 without anti-American sentiment ever rearing its head. I’ve talked to locals who definitely had opinions about our government, especially W, but had no problems with us as a people. |
Me three. Since 2001, I've traveled and worked in France, Germany and Italy on numerous occasions, including a 5 week project in Italy during the fuss over the CIA's "Extraordinary Renditions" and I have experienced nothing but goodwill from nearly everyone I encountered. (Some few people were assholes, but they were assholes to the natives as well.) |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 01:22:25 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
Same here, I’ve done a fair amount of travel since 2001 without anti-American sentiment ever rearing its head. I’ve talked to locals who definitely had opinions about our government, especially W, but had no problems with us as a people. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 11:48:59 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
You got lucky then I guess. Hell 1 week in Ireland and I heard it on 3 out of 4 coasts. Apparently the election of Obama has made things much better, but from what I hear from talking to some Euro friends, people still aren't all about Team America, World Police. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 11:41:12 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by FrankRobinson:
Allowing the guilty to get a smaller sentence by bargaining? Hmmm. Not much better. At least the lawyers get rich.
Discuss. |
Not as rich as they get if the case goes to trial...
R. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 11:25:35 AM · #21 |
| Since the Iraq War, I've been to Italy (twice), Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, and Egypt. While I would certainly understand a resentment toward Americans, I didn't see any. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 11:21:39 AM · #22 |
I wonder if this case would have ever come to trial in America... or whether there would have been some plea bargaining. Convincing the innocent to take a smaller fall to avoid the risk of a bigger one? Now there's justice... :o/
Allowing the guilty to get a smaller sentence by bargaining? Hmmm. Not much better. At least the lawyers get rich.
Discuss. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 11:01:49 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
No-one is denying that that sentiment exists. Like i said, it also exists in the UK and that country is as culpable for recent war efforts. I also encountered it whilst living in Egypt recently. I think the electing of Obama has gone some way to help heal this. What myself and others objected to in this thread was a lazy accusation against a nation that was more knee-jerk sensationalism than a reasoned view. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 10:47:39 AM · #24 |
Just a heads up, people who haven't been overseas during/since the GWB presidency....there was/is a clear and well defined anti-american sentiment in a lot of European countries as a result of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. I remember a 16 year old girl in Ireland that I walked past on the street turning around and telling me to "GET OUT OF HER COUNTRY"
Now if that sentiment is enough to put someone in prison for life, well thats questionable, but the sentiment definitely exists. |
|
|
|
12/07/2009 10:38:59 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by citymars:
PS: I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth about the murder. |
I'm with you on this... NO ONE will ever know what happened.. The only person who knows is the one or ones who did it and Meredith.. This IS one of those cases where there ISN'T any concrete proof except for the first guy they convicted.. His DNA and HIS fingerprint were found on her body.. The rest is all theory based on conclusions made by educated guesses.. AND for the record, the type of evidence used to convict her is used every single day in courts in the United States and people are convicted every single day with out a SHRED of physical evidence against them here... Can Amercians who convict Americans in AMERICA be called anti-American.. LOL.. No !!! and if you don't believe me, I show you one case..
United States V. Cynthia Sommer
The most horrifying case of misjustice in my opinion ever recorded in the history of this state... Luckily, it was overturned.. AND a perfect case of people making mistakes and REFUSING to admit it.. AND a case of a prosecutor making up a story to fit what little circumstantial evidence they had.. I mean, a prosecutor can actually just decide what they THINK happened and present that to a jury and then if the jury believes that, then a person can die or spend the rest of their life in jail for it.. Pretty scary stuff..
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 10:40:09. |
|
