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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> The NO COMMENT Flag for Challenge Entries...
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01/26/2009 05:21:08 AM · #1
Originally posted by chromeydome:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

It must be sad to only care about the technicals and not give a damn about whether you've connected with your viewer, caused any emotional response, made them smile or think...
Then again, that might be helpful if you just want to be a stock photographer.

Personally, I love comments, good, bad AND ugly.
(and have been searching for something good enough for a freestudy just for to enter the K10Dguy lottery)


I would rather have 20% comments required, and no scores needed.... :-)

THERE'S an idea!!!!!

That'd separate the wheat from the chaff!
01/26/2009 01:10:11 AM · #2
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

It must be sad to only care about the technicals and not give a damn about whether you've connected with your viewer, caused any emotional response, made them smile or think...
Then again, that might be helpful if you just want to be a stock photographer.

Personally, I love comments, good, bad AND ugly.
(and have been searching for something good enough for a freestudy just for to enter the K10Dguy lottery)


well, if you did some research, you'd find out that my comments run the gamut of scores in a free study ;) They also pretty much run the gamut of styles and subjects.

Bottom line, you can't get one if you don't enter at all thinking you don't have something that'll get one.

What a catch 22.


But I'd really rather not get the brown ribbon, and I'm not finding anything freestudy-worthy that wouldn't risk browning. I guess I need to actually get out and shoot, eh? :)
01/26/2009 12:58:59 AM · #3
Originally posted by BeeCee:

It must be sad to only care about the technicals and not give a damn about whether you've connected with your viewer, caused any emotional response, made them smile or think...
Then again, that might be helpful if you just want to be a stock photographer.

Personally, I love comments, good, bad AND ugly.
(and have been searching for something good enough for a freestudy just for to enter the K10Dguy lottery)


I would rather have 20% comments required, and no scores needed.... :-)
01/26/2009 12:58:55 AM · #4
Originally posted by BeeCee:

It must be sad to only care about the technicals and not give a damn about whether you've connected with your viewer, caused any emotional response, made them smile or think...
Then again, that might be helpful if you just want to be a stock photographer.

Personally, I love comments, good, bad AND ugly.
(and have been searching for something good enough for a freestudy just for to enter the K10Dguy lottery)


well, if you did some research, you'd find out that my comments run the gamut of scores in a free study ;) They also pretty much run the gamut of styles and subjects.

Bottom line, you can't get one if you don't enter at all thinking you don't have something that'll get one.

What a catch 22.
01/26/2009 12:56:55 AM · #5
It must be sad to only care about the technicals and not give a damn about whether you've connected with your viewer, caused any emotional response, made them smile or think...
Then again, that might be helpful if you just want to be a stock photographer.

Personally, I love comments, good, bad AND ugly.
(and have been searching for something good enough for a freestudy just for to enter the K10Dguy lottery)
01/26/2009 12:41:02 AM · #6
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

So I went and commented on every shot I voted a 3 and under on in the glasses challenge, giving some constructive critique, and then scattered about a few other comments that I didn't think were particularly helpful and were certainly not critique.

Two days later, and what are the comments marked helpful? The ones that weren't the critiques. lol.

Not a single one of the comments on the photos I voted 3 and under have been marked helpful.

Yay for completely un-scientific and inaccurate experiments!


And the Coveted K10DGuy Comments may not be so Coveted any longer....... LOLOLOL

Go, Science! :-)
01/26/2009 12:32:16 AM · #7
So I went and commented on every shot I voted a 3 and under on in the glasses challenge, giving some constructive critique, and then scattered about a few other comments that I didn't think were particularly helpful and were certainly not critique.

Two days later, and what are the comments marked helpful? The ones that weren't the critiques. lol.

Not a single one of the comments on the photos I voted 3 and under have been marked helpful.

Yay for completely un-scientific and inaccurate experiments!
01/24/2009 02:07:20 PM · #8
Originally posted by hahn23:

eta: You know that when a comment is made, it can be checked as helpful. But then, if the voter revises their vote or edits their comment or even scrolls through their votes, the check mark is removed. Anyone else notice this?


Yes, I've noticed that. I usually see it in conjuntion with a change in my score with no change in the amount of votes, indicating that commenter probably revised their vote.
01/24/2009 01:52:10 PM · #9
Originally posted by trevytrev:

Originally posted by yospiff:

Originally posted by hahn23:

K10Dguy's fictional prose are definitely not gibberish.


I guess I am not understanding the type of comments that are bothering you then. Can you offer a generic example of what you find to be useless gibberish?


By the way he checks helpful I think it means gibberish is any comment with some constructive criticism. Most comments checked helpful in his profile are comments that are praising, anything with a suggestion on improvement is left unchecked...hmmm, sure you welcome constructive criticism?

Currently in an unfinished challenge, I have 10 comments. Four of those comments contain definitive constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement. All 10 comments have been marked "helpful".

I don't spend a lot of time at this website. I've received many comments which should have been marked helpful, which I simply didn't see. I'll try to catch up on those marks.

There are examples of comments which I feel are nonsense/gibberish. I'm not going to list them....mostly, those are the ones which don't make sense or offer any understandable comment or offer any kind of photo related comment.... good or bad.

eta: You know that when a comment is made, it can be checked as helpful. But then, if the voter revises their vote or edits their comment or even scrolls through their votes, the check mark is removed. Anyone else notice this? I think a lot of comments were marked helpful, but I didn't revisit the comments after the challenge was over to check them again.

Message edited by author 2009-01-24 13:59:01.
01/24/2009 01:42:14 PM · #10
Originally posted by yospiff:

Originally posted by hahn23:

K10Dguy's fictional prose are definitely not gibberish.


I guess I am not understanding the type of comments that are bothering you then. Can you offer a generic example of what you find to be useless gibberish?


By the way he checks helpful I think it means gibberish is any comment with some constructive criticism. Most comments checked helpful in his profile are comments that are praising, anything with a suggestion on improvement is left unchecked...hmmm, sure you welcome constructive criticism?
01/24/2009 01:04:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by hahn23:

K10Dguy's fictional prose are definitely not gibberish.


I guess I am not understanding the type of comments that are bothering you then. Can you offer a generic example of what you find to be useless gibberish?
01/24/2009 12:42:27 PM · #12
Originally posted by phylsy7:

I rarely give comments because I don't know the technical aspects. I only know what I like and what I don't like.

And posting what you like (or don't like) is exactly what the comment box is for -- no one else here is qualified to express your reaction.

Let me also reiterate something I and many others here have noticed over the years, that you learn far more about making a good picture from the comments you make than from those you receive.

We have two on-site tutorials, 9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback and Commenting For Beginners (A Non-Analytical Approach) which could help ...
01/24/2009 12:22:17 PM · #13
Originally posted by yospiff:

I guess I misunderstood your definition of gibberish then. If you are referring to the sort of story comments that k10dguy has made famous, I find those entertaining and have left some myself. We'll have to agree to disagree on those, I guess.

K10Dguy's fictional prose are definitely not gibberish. Nor are they memories triggered by a photo. He himself refers to them as Stephen King-like short stories. I don't have any issues with k10. He has agreed to remove his short stories, if he inadvertently writes a hurtful message on one of my images. He's a good person and I have encouraged him to continue his writing....for those who wish to receive that kind of entertainment.
01/24/2009 12:04:33 PM · #14
I guess I misunderstood your definition of gibberish then. If you are referring to the sort of story comments that k10dguy has made famous, I find those entertaining and have left some myself. We'll have to agree to disagree on those, I guess.
01/24/2009 11:52:52 AM · #15
Originally posted by yospiff:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Gibberish and nonsense comments, personal insults and fictional prose are common and weaken the comment system because these non-photo things are unwelcome by me.

These sort of comments still serve to convey the viewers reactions and impressions of the photograph. I'll sometimes leave a comment about some memory that a photo brings up. On the surface it may seem unrelated to he photo, but if it stirs some memories from 20 or 30 years ago, I think that photo has had an effect on me and the photographer would appreciate knowing this.

It must be a tough row to hoe defending gibberish, nonsense, personal insults and fantasies. I get my share of these. There is no removing these by the image's author, so I just don't mark them "helpful". Hope that's alright with everyone.

To your comments about "memories a photo brings up", I think that's a great thing to add to a comment box. The more important part of my most recent post was clipped off.... so here it is again.... Constructive criticism related to the photograph, suggestions for improvement on any image parameters, opinions on appropriateness for the challenge or general comments on the photograph are greatly appreciated and welcome...

I consider general comments, like your triggered memories, on the photograph to be welcomed by me.
01/24/2009 11:38:47 AM · #16
Originally posted by hahn23:

Gibberish and nonsense comments, personal insults and fictional prose are common and weaken the comment system because these non-photo things are unwelcome by me.

These sort of comments still serve to convey the viewers reactions and impressions of the photograph. I'll sometimes leave a comment about some memory that a photo brings up. On the surface it may seem unrelated to he photo, but if it stirs some memories from 20 or 30 years ago, I think that photo has had an effect on me and the photographer would appreciate knowing this.

Message edited by author 2009-01-24 11:41:21.
01/24/2009 08:20:05 AM · #17
I'll be honest with you. I never really want to learn the technical aspect. My friend takes absolutely technically beautiful photographs but sometimes the subject matter and composition bore me. He had tried for many years to teach me the technical stuff but it really did just cloud what I wanted to express. I do it for me...no one else. My friends have asked for some of my photos and actually have them hanging on their walls. That's my blue ribbon!
01/24/2009 08:10:31 AM · #18
Originally posted by phylsy7:

Photography, for me, is a hobby. I do not know the technical aspects of photography...I barely understand my camera (which is low-end). I appreciate all comments. Sometimes I find them funny because one commenter will say "I like the lighting" and the next will say "It is perhaps too dark on the bottom". I challenge myself on this sight. I am in no way in competition with anyone else on this site. I rarely give comments because I don't know the technical aspects. I only know what I like and what I don't like. Some would probably say I shouldn't vote because of this but for those of you who are professionals (or looking to be) it is "Joe the Plumber" who is buying the magazines you want to have your photos in and it is the untrained eye that is buying your photos at shows... because if they were trained they would photograph, print and frame their own stuff. I have thought about commenting with a single word that reflects my initial reaction to a photo (ie Wow, Yuck, Beautiful, stupid) It is, afterall, a comment...my comment...it isn't titled "Critique"...it is titled "Comment"

Your technical skills have no bearing on what you like or how an image makes you feel.

You're more likely to leave an honest impression now before your mind becomes too cluttered with things like DOF, Bokeh, leading lines, rule of thirds, and so many other ideas and concepts that cloud what you really feel!......8>)

ETA: Re your "Low End" camera" comment.....

This is from a challenge last month with one of those "Low End" jobs......8>)



Message edited by author 2009-01-24 08:13:57.
01/24/2009 08:03:07 AM · #19
Photography, for me, is a hobby. I do not know the technical aspects of photography...I barely understand my camera (which is low-end). I appreciate all comments. Sometimes I find them funny because one commenter will say "I like the lighting" and the next will say "It is perhaps too dark on the bottom". I challenge myself on this sight. I am in no way in competition with anyone else on this site. I rarely give comments because I don't know the technical aspects. I only know what I like and what I don't like. Some would probably say I shouldn't vote because of this but for those of you who are professionals (or looking to be) it is "Joe the Plumber" who is buying the magazines you want to have your photos in and it is the untrained eye that is buying your photos at shows... because if they were trained they would photograph, print and frame their own stuff. I have thought about commenting with a single word that reflects my initial reaction to a photo (ie Wow, Yuck, Beautiful, stupid) It is, afterall, a comment...my comment...it isn't titled "Critique"...it is titled "Comment"
01/24/2009 07:00:00 AM · #20
Originally posted by hahn23:

Gibberish and nonsense comments, personal insults and fictional prose are common and weaken the comment system because these non-photo things are unwelcome by me.

Common? Personal insults?

Can you give any actual stats or examples?

Hey here's one!

"mean-spirited, depressing and wrong-headed diatribe"

This was a reply to a comment left during a challenge.

Here's another:

"I take great offense at your comments, but I take your comments in the frame of reference that you don't know what you are talking about.

ETA: I just looked at your entry in this challenge. Now, I understand."


And another reply, this one in a forum where a technique was being discussed where the poster was trying to use an example chosen completely a random.

It sure seems to me that these are the kind of responses that indicate that perhaps there's more of an issue than the comment, though for the life of me I don't know what.

Especially, when the overwhelming majority of the reactions to someone's dedicated efforts go something like this:

"fwiw, I await with great anticipation the day that one of my entries will merit a K10DGuy comment."

And....

"I just hope he realizes that if one of those stories ends up on one of my pictures, I'll probably be printing it up as a card or poster with the text included. :-)"

All I would really like to suggest is that perhaps one should step outside of one's own expectations and parameters and perhaps think that an unwelcome comment was not intended for the sole purpose of ruining one's day, and in fact, may have been intended to inject an air of mystery, intrigue, and perhaps even a breath of fresh air.

I have received over 4300 comments in the two and a half years I've been here, and of the scant few that I have not wanted, in looking at the image as a point of reference, they were unerringly accurate and merely reflected something I didn't want to consider.

And I marked them as helpful, and moved on.

01/24/2009 06:39:15 AM · #21
Originally posted by Melethia:

If not, I'll selectively comment on those I know appreciate them in side challenges, after challenges, etc, and just skip the challenges whilst running.

Originally posted by Beetle:

You're right, it doesn't happen very often that this issue blows up.
However, it happens constantly that someone moans/mentions/says that they don't want comments, or that they were upset by them, or found them a waste of time.

I, for one, HATE never knowing if my comment will be welcomed or detested, so I am now commenting only very rarely.


This is exactly what I'm talking about.

These sentimets are a shame.......that for the sake of an infinitessimal percentage making a huge bluster over getting a comment causing people, GOOD people, to rethink whether they'll leave a comment, is a disgrace.

A couple of weeks ago I suggested actually putting ACW (All Comments Welcome) at the beginning or end of the title.....I now think that anyone who thinks that they can dictate the kind of comment that they should get should figure out their own system.

Sooner or later, on this site, you MIGHT get a comment you don't like.

That's certainly less of an issue than calling someone out, insulting and personally atacking them, for the misfortune of not knowing you'd react this way.

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

It would seem apparent that the consensus is that the system isn't broken, that occasionally one may garner a comment that doesn't suit, but if that puts a damper on your day, perhaps rather than ask that the site change based on your parameters it'd be wise to recognize that it's only for fun.

If it ceases to be fun, well.....
01/24/2009 05:53:33 AM · #22
I came to the site to learn how to improve my photography. The comments I have received on my photos have been immensely helpful. I also learn a lot from the comments on others' photos. Without comments, the whole purpose of the site is negated.

If you receive negative feedback from someone about a comment you've left, just ignore it. They're just words after all, nobody beat you with a stick. Know that there are a thousand others that appreciate any sort of feedback that is given.
01/24/2009 04:29:00 AM · #23
If someone cannot accept comments on their photography - good or bad, then stop posting pictures to the site. This site was created for photographers to learn from each other.

From the about section:
"The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week."

As a solution I suggest to clearly write in the FAQ section that a person that submit photography to the site accept comments of all nature being positive or negative criticism, musings (ala K10DGuy), non-contructive "MAGNIFICENT" comments and everything else other contributors may feel like writing. At least this way we will reduce the attacks on individuals.
01/24/2009 03:56:48 AM · #24
In a place as widely diverse as DPC, it's hard to keep everyone on one path - and would be rather boring to do so, in my opinion. When I comment, I will more often than not say something about how the photograph affects me - whether it makes me smile, makes me think of something in particular, makes me sad. I'll add if there's an element of composition I like or don't like, and/or if I like the processing, etc. I try not to offer personal insults - I see no point in those. I have offered fictional prose - sometimes pictures tell a story to me and I'll share what I see with the photographer. I've also offered suggestions for changes, improvements, with the caveat that the photographer may like it just the way it is.

So basically, with me you get a variety. All will be photo-related, but not all will be technical.
01/24/2009 03:31:08 AM · #25
Constructive criticism related to the photograph, suggestions for improvement on any image parameters, opinions on appropriateness for the challenge or general comments on the photograph are greatly appreciated and welcome. But, that's all that should be allowed in the comment box.

Gibberish and nonsense comments, personal insults and fictional prose are common and weaken the comment system because these non-photo things are unwelcome by me.

I don't know how one would sort out the former from the latter. But, the correlation is often member/user related. It would improve my dpchallenge experience if an "ignore" button were available for members who displayed a pattern of leaving non-photo related comments.
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