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12/30/2008 08:01:42 AM · #1 |
This thread was originally about Blackbox leaving, and he's not leaving anymore so we're all done here.
If you want to debate the commercialization of Christmas in a general way, please start a new Rant thread. |
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12/30/2008 07:17:17 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by Ivo: Interesting perspectives. One thing that may not have been mentioned is that Christmas is among the most sacred of Christian holidays celebrating the birth of Christ. |
Which has been turned into a circus act or retail excess, and nonsensical myths for the indulgence/excuse of conspicuous consumption.
The Christmas that I see each and every day, starting somewhere right after Halloween bears little resemblance to a "Reverent, sacred holy day".
Yet nobody seems to get their nose out of joint about that.
In fact, there are those of us who believe that Jesus himself would be appalled at his deification, as he would tell us that it was about his teachings, not Jesus himself, thereby kind of really taking the starch out of the celebration of his birth.
And somehow, I think his view of red-suited, white-bearded, fat guys filling little children full of hopes that will be dashed, in the malls to be a disgraceful practice in and of itself.
And as you said, it's a CHRISTIAN holiday, which means that it's NO disgrace as part of the human race to NOT share the Christian beliefs, ESPECIALLY about behaving any certain way because it's THEIR holiday.
It's a perspective thing, and the part that one needs to remember is that it's just as rude to tell someone else that their beliefs aren't as important as yours as it is to be offended that they don't share yours.
Originally posted by Ivo: Now if you want a scantily clad image to represent a sacred holiday through jestful inferences of seduction and/or promiscuity, dude, your looking to get egged. lol. |
Oh, that was OBVIOUSLY the point with the first and second place winners! Yeah, on NO level was the beautiful woman wrapped like a Christmas gift in a prurient fantasy supposed to represent anything other than a mockery of the Christ child's birth.
Does that sound as ridiculous to you as it does to me?
Originally posted by Ivo: Look what the Islamics did over a few cartoons. I'd suggest the diverse community of DPC celebrate holidays like Festivus as they may be less challenging to people's religious views If not, I'll pay large money to see the winning entries in the "What I Want For Ramadan" challenge. |
You know what?
If you want to talk about not offending anyone's beliefs, then let's do away with the nude challenges......after all, in the Islamic faith, female nudity is a sin.
The Hell with beauty, the Hell with artisitc expression, the Hell with the fact that there are some stellar photographers here, male AND female that do breathtaking renditions of the art of the human form.
We wouldn't want to make a mockery of anyone's beliefs!
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12/30/2008 05:01:40 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw: Here's a link to a news posting that went up during filming:
//www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/xp-16655 |
this portion below, shows that there are parts of the movie which are honest reactions from people.
"After apologizing to the crowd for being duped, Rowe was left to wonder who pulled such a hoax, and why. Months ago, he was approached by someone from One America, a California-based film company that was reportedly doing a documentary on a Russian immigrant, Rowe said."
Message edited by author 2008-12-30 05:02:27. |
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12/30/2008 04:47:42 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by crayon: Originally posted by paulbtlw: The name of the country in the movie was Kazakhstan which is of course a real country, though the producers of the film claim that "The Kazakhstan depicted in the film has little or no relationship with the actual country and the producers explicitly deny attempting to convey the actual beliefs, practices or behavior of anyone associated with Kazakhstan" - funny in itself! |
OMG another gem! u guys are great with sleuthing :) but the naitonal anthem... that's gotta be fake, right? |
Here's a link to a news posting that went up during filming:
//www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/xp-16655
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12/30/2008 04:28:26 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw: The name of the country in the movie was Kazakhstan which is of course a real country, though the producers of the film claim that "The Kazakhstan depicted in the film has little or no relationship with the actual country and the producers explicitly deny attempting to convey the actual beliefs, practices or behavior of anyone associated with Kazakhstan" - funny in itself! |
OMG another gem! u guys are great with sleuthing :) but the naitonal anthem... that's gotta be fake, right? |
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12/30/2008 04:22:11 AM · #6 |
The name of the country in the movie was Kazakhstan which is of course a real country, though the producers of the film claim that "The Kazakhstan depicted in the film has little or no relationship with the actual country and the producers explicitly deny attempting to convey the actual beliefs, practices or behavior of anyone associated with Kazakhstan" - funny in itself! |
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12/30/2008 03:56:22 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music: Originally posted by crayon: oops, its from 2006? sorry, so it's not old, but damn, it's funny! (but i'm pretty sure a lot of people on DPC would get highly offended by the movie). i think it's a good watch. i wonder if they explained themselves to the people they shot after they got their scenes. coz damn, i really think they were gonna get mobbed at the rodeo after he "unintentionally" insulted USA's national anthem. |
I've never thought people were as misled as the producers would want us to believe; after all, they had an entire film crew working to make that footage, how oblivious would you have to be NOT to realize Borat/Cohen's fulminations were part of a movie?
R. |
Yes i do factor in the fact that they have a cameraman (at least) on most of the footage, but certain scenes DOES makes you wonder if they (the producers) managed to convince those they interviewed to be genuine reporters from Azkhanistan (i cant remember the spelling of this bogus country), or on other cases, using a cheap camcorder disguised as genuine tourists trying to get a taste of the American culture. |
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12/30/2008 03:22:34 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by crayon: oops, its from 2006? sorry, so it's not old, but damn, it's funny! (but i'm pretty sure a lot of people on DPC would get highly offended by the movie). i think it's a good watch. i wonder if they explained themselves to the people they shot after they got their scenes. coz damn, i really think they were gonna get mobbed at the rodeo after he "unintentionally" insulted USA's national anthem. |
I've never thought people were as misled as the producers would want us to believe; after all, they had an entire film crew working to make that footage, how oblivious would you have to be NOT to realize Borat/Cohen's fulminations were part of a movie?
R.
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12/30/2008 03:01:34 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music: Originally posted by crayon: this thread reminds me a bit of an old movie called "Borat" i watched last night and i think it is a nice movie simply for the fact that you can see honest responses/reactions from average people (coz they aren't entirely acting?). the scene at the "fine dining" dinner table is a nice example of people's reaction to things they disapprove; and also the limits of tolerance of different individuals.
warning though, it is a racist, sexist and movie of bad taste. not for the narrow minded. |
Sheesh, OLD movie?
Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan was released in November of 2006. Hysterical movie. Sascha Baron Cohen is a genuine original...
R. |
oops, its from 2006? sorry, so it's not old, but damn, it's funny! (but i'm pretty sure a lot of people on DPC would get highly offended by the movie). i think it's a good watch. i wonder if they explained themselves to the people they shot after they got their scenes. coz damn, i really think they were gonna get mobbed at the rodeo after he "unintentionally" insulted USA's national anthem. |
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12/30/2008 02:10:28 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by crayon: this thread reminds me a bit of an old movie called "Borat" i watched last night and i think it is a nice movie simply for the fact that you can see honest responses/reactions from average people (coz they aren't entirely acting?). the scene at the "fine dining" dinner table is a nice example of people's reaction to things they disapprove; and also the limits of tolerance of different individuals.
warning though, it is a racist, sexist and movie of bad taste. not for the narrow minded. |
Sheesh, OLD movie?
Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan was released in November of 2006. Hysterical movie. Sascha Baron Cohen is a genuine original...
R.
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12/30/2008 01:48:47 AM · #11 |
this thread reminds me a bit of an old movie called "Borat" i watched last night and i think it is a nice movie simply for the fact that you can see honest responses/reactions from average people (coz they aren't entirely acting?). the scene at the "fine dining" dinner table is a nice example of people's reaction to things they disapprove; and also the limits of tolerance of different individuals.
warning though, it is a racist, sexist and movie of bad taste. not for the narrow minded. |
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12/30/2008 01:39:32 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Melethia: I missed the offensive significance, but I did wonder if all the voters were male for this past challenge.... :-) |
I didn't vote on that challenge...but I would have voted favorably. The photographers photographed what they wanted for Christmas...the images were technically sound and certainly pleasing to the eye.
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12/30/2008 01:37:55 AM · #13 |
I missed the offensive significance, but I did wonder if all the voters were male for this past challenge.... :-) |
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12/30/2008 01:05:00 AM · #14 |
Some people take themselves waaaaaaaaayyyyy too seriously. |
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12/30/2008 01:03:12 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Ivo: Originally posted by rossbilly: i happen to know several agnostic people who still 'celebrate' christmas (ie - exchange gifts, etc.) with their family & loved ones. how's THAT for confusing? what about someone who has only recently changed their personal religious affiliations, yet still participates with their friends & loved ones?
btw - the challenge was titled 'what i WANT for christmas'. not that hard to figure out what would get the popular vote. besides, what's wrong with being honest?
* (not intended to argue with anyone; simply an observation) |
Agnostics celebrating Christmas?? I can believe that agnostics celebrate alongside those who celebrate Christmas. An agnostic should also enter the challenge titled "What I Want During Christmas" as they can never receive something for Christmas as that would be hypocritical. On the point of honesty ...... prudence shields honest people from being misunderstood. Prudence may have been revealed these honest images in another challenge and not one associated with a religious holiday. ;-)
Myself, I have strayed off the path of Christianity far too many times to be speaking from a higher moral ground. I just enjoy a good mind slap now and then. |
True. Just pointing out the obvious:
Family member, speaking to their agnostic relative - "Hey John, what would you like for your christmas present this year?"
John - "Well, there is one photo I'd like printed life-sized..."
Though he may not be actively celebrating, he is an active participant.
Come to think of it, don't most people joke/tease/flirt with their significant other? "Ooooh! I just want to unwrap YOU for Christmas!" Sounds like a celebration of two persons in love, no? What could be better than that... and how is a loving relationship NOT a part of the season?
Something to be thankful for, no doubt ;)
Message edited by author 2008-12-30 01:06:22.
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12/30/2008 12:48:01 AM · #16 |
lol, the more things change... same argument, different year. |
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12/30/2008 12:36:36 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by rossbilly: i happen to know several agnostic people who still 'celebrate' christmas (ie - exchange gifts, etc.) with their family & loved ones. how's THAT for confusing? what about someone who has only recently changed their personal religious affiliations, yet still participates with their friends & loved ones?
btw - the challenge was titled 'what i WANT for christmas'. not that hard to figure out what would get the popular vote. besides, what's wrong with being honest?
* (not intended to argue with anyone; simply an observation) |
Agnostics celebrating Christmas?? I can believe that agnostics celebrate alongside those who celebrate Christmas. An agnostic should also enter the challenge titled "What I Want During Christmas" as they can never receive something for Christmas as that would be hypocritical. On the point of honesty ...... prudence shields honest people from being misunderstood. Prudence may have been revealed these honest images in another challenge and not one associated with a religious holiday. ;-)
Myself, I have strayed off the path of Christianity far too many times to be speaking from a higher moral ground. I just enjoy a good mind slap now and then. |
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12/30/2008 12:19:21 AM · #18 |
i happen to know several agnostic people who still 'celebrate' christmas (ie - exchange gifts, etc.) with their family & loved ones. how's THAT for confusing? what about someone who has only recently changed their personal religious affiliations, yet still participates with their friends & loved ones?
btw - the challenge was titled 'what i WANT for christmas'. not that hard to figure out what would get the popular vote. besides, what's wrong with being honest?
* (not intended to argue with anyone; simply an observation)
Message edited by author 2008-12-30 00:21:36.
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12/30/2008 12:18:08 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Ivo: Interesting perspectives. One thing that may not have been mentioned is that Christmas is among the most sacred of Christian holidays celebrating the birth of Christ. Now if you want a scantily clad image to represent a sacred holiday through jestful inferences of seduction and/or promiscuity, dude, your looking to get egged. lol. Look what the Islamics did over a few cartoons. I'd suggest the diverse community of DPC celebrate holidays like Festivus as they may be less challenging to people's religious views If not, I'll pay large money to see the winning entries in the "What I Want For Ramadan" challenge. |
Thats a very interesting take in fact. FWIW, religion did not cross my mind when I looked at the top two picks. Hard to believe? It could be. But its true. My only take (and its just my opinion.. nothing to do with how the DPC community feels) is that basic human instincts still strike when you are allowed to take them out.. anonymous voting is a very good example... one can express or live their fundamental likings through voting when no one will know that you did. Of course this may not be true for everyone. But I suspect for most it is.
Sorry but I couldnt ingest your religious take on this. It is fundamentally about the truest (is that a word?:-) and most basic organic desires. No more, no less. Not that complicated.
Message edited by author 2008-12-30 00:20:55. |
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12/30/2008 12:08:50 AM · #20 |
Interesting perspectives. One thing that may not have been mentioned is that Christmas is among the most sacred of Christian holidays celebrating the birth of Christ. Now if you want a scantily clad image to represent a sacred holiday through jestful inferences of seduction and/or promiscuity, dude, your looking to get egged. lol. Look what the Islamics did over a few cartoons. I'd suggest the diverse community of DPC celebrate holidays like Festivus as they may be less challenging to people's religious views If not, I'll pay large money to see the winning entries in the "What I Want For Ramadan" challenge. |
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12/29/2008 11:51:36 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by zeuszen: Are you talking about the image(s) I awarded a 2 (not for the nudity but for bad taste, i.e. "failure of feeling")? |
To keep that in perspective, it should be noted that at 14,201 votes cast, your average vote given is 3.5783.
So that's really above your 50 percentile........8>)
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12/29/2008 11:43:27 PM · #22 |
Are you talking about the image(s) I awarded a 2 (not for the nudity but for bad taste, i.e. "failure of feeling")? |
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12/29/2008 11:40:06 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by L2: Enough with the personal attacks on Blackbox. Just. Plain. Enough.
He's entitled to feel however he feels, and there is absolutely no reason to jump on him like this. He didn't start this thread whinging about his principles, and we expect that all users will show him the respect that they would want shown to them. |
That's fine, but please explain how this fundamental attack on the community at large is justified just because he feels it's irreverent.
"I'm upset over the fact that the voters voted nudity as the best photos at such a reverent time of year. I think it is disgraceful to the human race."
Message edited by author 2008-12-29 23:40:40.
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12/29/2008 11:31:16 PM · #24 |
What I want to know is if we cannot express our vision here on a photography site without other photographers expressing their disdain, rather than respecting our right to our expression, then where do we go?
If you don't like my image, fine, that's your right, but what gives you the right to say that my vision, and attempt to convey it is a disgrace?
And if the majority of the other photogs happen to see it my way rather than yours, doesn't it stand to reason that perhaps the image has more merit than you give credit?
The very next image may very well tank, and your image receives the accolades you hope for......then that's okay, right?
The respect we should hold for each other's artistic expression really should outweigh personal tastes.
Otherwise, what's the point?
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12/29/2008 11:11:54 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Blackbox: No, there's not nudity and I'm the disgrace... |
I don't think we said that at all. I know I'm just really confuzzled... |
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