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12/24/2008 11:38:26 PM · #1 |
Ok, for a while this was a constructive exchange about commenting, but I think this has gone beyond that, and it's time to lock it!
Everyone go hug your family or a friend :)
Message edited by nshapiro - some fixes.. |
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12/24/2008 11:35:07 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Wow, I guess Pedro isn't the only one who doesn't know what fucking noise is.
Thanks everyone for taking sides in this and making me out to be some ignorant putz. I guess after 35 years in photography I still do not know what the fuck I'm talking about concerning noise.
I'm done with this site.
It took a noob to get rid of me. ROFLMFAO.
Have fun with your complaining and your whining about scores and trolls and bad commenters and whatever the hell you want to complain about. You can't learn from crappy photographers and that's the problem with this site. Too many noobs who think they know anything about photography and too many even more noobs who listen to them. You can't learn shit from a noob who thinks he knows it all because mom bought him a camera for his graduation.
But I guess this site is filled with them....
Pedro, I won't change my opinion like you want me to. You're very immature for even asking. I suggest you read a book or two on photography before assuming you know anything on the subject.
Congrats for getting rid of me, i'm sure you'll receive many PMs congratulating you on your effort.
To the few that actually talked to me while I was here. See you around on some other site that has an age limit and doesn't allow young inexperienced noobs dictate how members should or should not behave.
Langdon, thanks for your help with my inquiries, you were very helpful and prompt with your replies. Great site and I will miss it, until I find another, that is, with hopefully less amateurs who think they know it all.
Jack |
Well Jack, now you proved to me i shouldn´t have hided your name, because i feel like you really have to change not just some opinions, but your hole personality, i´m really sorry for you being rude like that, so imature (with your age) and snobbish like that about your skills in photography. By my "little" experience in life (22 years) i feel you are the child here.
I was not going to say that, because i felt like i was getting to your level...but my lovely Canon SX100IS was a present from my brother, not from my mother, and despite being a noob with a camera, i could get a better score in Bokeh V than you did...
I tried to apologize with you for being harsh, i tried everything to have good chat with you, but your actions are ridiculous.
Again and for the last time, i'm sorry if i made you give up from the site, it was not my intention, i hope you feel better in another place.
See you in another challenge and good luck for you, maybe you can do better than noobs like me. |
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12/24/2008 11:33:01 PM · #3 |
i read the entire thread, I don't understand why Jac suddenly posted this. Am i blind or something?
edit: never mind
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 23:34:21. |
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12/24/2008 11:26:22 PM · #4 |
Ah if only we had checkboxes to indicate the types of comments we want maybe things like this wouldn't happen or would less likely to occur?
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12/24/2008 10:53:35 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I'm done with this site.
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I would have to say that after that pathetic,whining, self-serving, pity party we are probably better off without you.
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 22:53:54. |
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12/24/2008 10:31:30 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by mindbottling:
Originally posted by togtog:
Wow I so totally feel the holiday spirit, it is like this warm, no, burning, no stinging, gah the cat is using my leg as a scratching post... |
Lucky! My cat is using my head as a launchpad. |
the mental picture im getting is highly entertaining:) lol |
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12/24/2008 10:29:58 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Wow I so totally feel the holiday spirit, it is like this warm, no, burning, no stinging, gah the cat is using my leg as a scratching post... |
Lucky! My cat is using my head as a launchpad. |
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12/24/2008 10:28:24 PM · #8 |
| Wow I so totally feel the holiday spirit, it is like this warm, no, burning, no stinging, gah the cat is using my leg as a scratching post... |
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12/24/2008 10:28:22 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Have fun with your complaining and your whining about scores and trolls and bad commenters and whatever the hell you want to complain about. You can't learn from crappy photographers and that's the problem with this site. Too many noobs who think they know anything about photography and too many even more noobs who listen to them. You can't learn shit from a noob who thinks he knows it all because mom bought him a camera for his graduation.
But I guess this site is filled with them....
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Way to exemplify maturity.
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 22:29:08. |
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12/24/2008 10:26:27 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
there will allways be noods that need your wisdom. |
as well as your clothing! |
lol i just realized i said nood:) tehe |
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12/24/2008 10:25:29 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
there will allways be noods that need your wisdom. |
as well as your clothing! |
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12/24/2008 10:22:17 PM · #12 |
there will allways be noods that need your wisdom. too bad this whole thing tunred out nasty, i've had it happen to me and its rather unpleasent. oh, and since im an inexpeirenced noob in your opinion, heres a big middle finger right to you Jac
thats my peice, i am leaving now
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 22:24:08. |
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12/24/2008 10:21:41 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Wow, I guess Pedro isn't the only one who doesn't know what fucking noise is.
Congrats for getting rid of me, etc, etc. |
So only those that are considered "good photographers" are allowed to leave their opinion in comments? (how do you determine who has earned the entitlement?) I think that would really hurt the learning aspect of the site.
I have learned as much about good photography from commenting as I have through getting beat up in challenges against people better than myself. I have regularly left critical comments on high scoring images, often from multiple ribbon winners. Nobody has EVER PM'd me suggesting I could not leave these comments because I was not as good aphotographer as they were.
Take the comments in stride. If a noob with a 4.x average leaves a harsh critique on your entry, just take it in stride. If several others leave similar comments, then maybe there is something to it. You need to interpret all the feedback you receive to get something out of it.
I'm sorry this has all pissed you off, other than that, I think this has been a useful discussion.
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 22:24:14. |
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12/24/2008 10:06:07 PM · #14 |
Wow, I guess Pedro isn't the only one who doesn't know what fucking noise is.
Thanks everyone for taking sides in this and making me out to be some ignorant putz. I guess after 35 years in photography I still do not know what the fuck I'm talking about concerning noise.
I'm done with this site.
It took a noob to get rid of me. ROFLMFAO.
Have fun with your complaining and your whining about scores and trolls and bad commenters and whatever the hell you want to complain about. You can't learn from crappy photographers and that's the problem with this site. Too many noobs who think they know anything about photography and too many even more noobs who listen to them. You can't learn shit from a noob who thinks he knows it all because mom bought him a camera for his graduation.
But I guess this site is filled with them....
Pedro, I won't change my opinion like you want me to. You're very immature for even asking. I suggest you read a book or two on photography before assuming you know anything on the subject.
Congrats for getting rid of me, i'm sure you'll receive many PMs congratulating you on your effort.
To the few that actually talked to me while I was here. See you around on some other site that has an age limit and doesn't allow young inexperienced noobs dictate how members should or should not behave.
Langdon, thanks for your help with my inquiries, you were very helpful and prompt with your replies. Great site and I will miss it, until I find another, that is, with hopefully less amateurs who think they know it all.
Jack
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12/24/2008 05:14:28 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
I think my own entry on Bokeh V is a good example of what is noisy for me...it is not very noisy but if you look at the lights, you will see they are kind of grainy...Some photos i commented had some aspects like that and i said they were noisy. Maybe harsh points would be a better way to define what i saw sometimes.
I'm really thankful for the suport of you all and i'm already receiving good advices of some people about commenting and all...And i want to remember that i created that topic not only for me, but to show that newcomers like me who are interested in learning more and more about photography and DP can and should participate, as long as they be polite and try to give helpful comments! |
Well, Pedro, welcome aboard! You'll do just fine I think.
Regarding noise, as DPC images go your "last cigarette" example is actually a fairly noisy one. You're working with a very small sensor on the Powershot, and these cameras get really noisy when you bump the ISO up also. For most people the noise would not be a factor, but at DPC we tend to be conditioned by the very smooth images that dSLR cameras can produce, so the bar is raised a little higher here. Not that this is necessarily a good thing (otherwise excellent images that deserve better are scored down based on equipment limitations), but it is what it is...
R.
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12/24/2008 05:09:42 PM · #16 |
| Yep, Pedro. Be honest, it's your opinion and you are free to express it here. There will always be those who will say you are wrong or you misunderstand, but in the end it is what you think and feel about a photo. Please, don't change or give in to the warm, cuddly comments some seek. |
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12/24/2008 05:09:26 PM · #17 |
One thing I've started to do with comments is to remember that with the exception of a blatantly obvious "You should not have wasted my time" or "This sucks" that people who are willing to leave comments are trying to A. Be helpful, or B. Express their feelings toward the image.
Funny thing is, there seems to be two distinctly different schools of thought on the receiving end.
Some people do not take helpfulness very well.....i.e. "Seems somewhat dark to me." even though it's phrased innocuously may irritate the person that made it that dark to achieve the mood that they wanted. If you do not keep it in mind that the commenter is trying to be helpful, that's an issue.
I know most often when I try something new, I usually get pinged for it in comments.....much to my amusement because that's a clearcut sign that what I'm doing either doesn't resonate well with the voters, or is poorly executed.....or BOTH!!! LOL!!!
So with the exception of the occasional grump who tells me to pack up my camera and get a real job, I assume that the comment is meant helpfully, and try to understand the comment in that context. If I'm not sure, I just ask the commenter what they meant.
I love getting the comments that have no photographic input whatsoever, but that make it clear that I inspired some kind of feeling with the image. That's what it's all about to me.
I pretty much seem to always get good comments since I adopted that perspective.
Edited for fat fingers.....8>)
Message edited by author 2008-12-24 17:10:58.
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12/24/2008 05:06:51 PM · #18 |
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12/24/2008 04:42:36 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Pedro has nothing to apologize for, that's a fact. The respondent he quotes in the first post is out of line.
However, Pedro also seems to be coming to realize what some of us never "get": that you can say the exact, same thing two different ways and one statement will be accepted while the other seems like a slap in the face.
For example: "The sky's too dark here," vs "It seems to me the sky's too dark here." There's actually a world of difference between those two statements, emotively.
"Try dodging the face and burning in the BG to make the image pop," vs "I wonder if you considered dodging the face and burning in the BG? This might have given added pop to the image."
In the one example, the commenter is expressing an opinion instead of an absolute. In the other example, the commenter is giving the photographer credit for a thought process; indeed, the photographer may have considered these things and rejected them, for whatever reason.
R. |
This is excellent advice on commenting--the wording changes the statement from assertions that can be (mis)interpreted by the receiver as "I know better than you do about your own images" to something more easily considered and "respectful". |
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12/24/2008 04:26:30 PM · #20 |
Poor Pedro *hugs* don't get discouraged!
I've gotten a few nasty comments before and didn't respond to them, and they were horrible compared to what you said, you at least are making a clear effort to be helpful, don't let some people get you down. Oh and remember sometimes people are just having a bad day and won't see anything said positively.
I've only ever once replied to a comment, which was paraphrased "This sucks.", and I simply asked the person if they would mind explaining what they saw wrong or what I could have done to improve my idea/photography, either in the comment or in private. They never replied, they never changed their comment. I PMed them a week later and asked again, again nothing. *shrugs*, I'll never know why it sucked but I wouldn't jump on someone like you got jumped on.
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12/24/2008 04:07:57 PM · #21 |
| Thanks for your note Pedro - I sent a PM back. Keep up the great work! |
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12/24/2008 03:56:19 PM · #22 |
Oh Pedro... Now you went and done it! The photographer will never help you like his/her photos better again. ;-)
I would like to think that anyone who receives a comment that an image is too dark, would take it as the image is too dark for that particular viewer. What else could it, would it, mean? Not many commenters presume to speak for the whole human race.
As for too noisy, that also is relative. But "I wont have....", too late dude, you just did.
Robert makes a good point, in that there are tactful ways to say things. I've gotten some comments that could have been phrased better. But on reflection, the image probably was "boring" to some. And yes, I would have liked some ideas to improve it. However, in my not so humble opinion, it was not license to go back at the person who made the comment and thump my chest about being here longer, and owning better equipment.
Call 'em like you see 'em Pedro. The rest of us may, or may not agree, but it's still your call.
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12/24/2008 03:53:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Pedro has nothing to apologize for, that's a fact. The respondent he quotes in the first post is out of line.
However, Pedro also seems to be coming to realize what some of us never "get": that you can say the exact, same thing two different ways and one statement will be accepted while the other seems like a slap in the face.
For example: "The sky's too dark here," vs "It seems to me the sky's too dark here." There's actually a world of difference between those two statements, emotively. |
... or even "I'd prefer a lighter sky here ..." -- if anyone has an objection to your preference, the appropriate response is pity, not anger ... |
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12/24/2008 03:52:47 PM · #24 |
| Put a bag on your head - by the time our name is revealed at the end of the challenge the hotheads will have clamed done and not send as many retorts. |
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12/24/2008 03:49:59 PM · #25 |
Welcome to DPC!
First, I agree with what everyone above said about a) commenting on whatever you think and b) try to express your opinions in a way that shows you know they're your opinions.
I think there may be a bit of a language issue here. I know several people who sound much harsher than they intend because English is a foreign language to them, so the subtle parts get lost sometimes.
Either way, feel free to comment on all of my photos. :)
I also think there may be a definition issue. DPC has had raging debates about what's bokeh vs. what's out of focus (and whether that distinction even exists), but there really is a difference between noisy and not.
This is a noisy shot. See how the wall on the left looks like it has little spots, when it's actually all one color?
This is not. The black areas are pure black - no spots:
It might help if you could post an example of a shot you thought was noisy and explained where you're seeing the noise. Maybe we can all help figure this out together.
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