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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Is it me, or is this terribly rude?
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05/05/2008 07:31:35 PM · #1
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by Blue Moon:

ok, I knew once I entered it and saw my scores that the title was definitely a part of that and I should have left out "candid", but is that really justification for scoring something down? It's not like I titled it "You Suck and So Does Everyone You Know", also if any of you had looked at my profile you would see that I've been in 3 side challenges.


FWIW, I don't think that you got scored down, at least to any great degree, for the inclusion of the "(candid)" portion of the title... on the other hand, it certainly did not help. In general, I think that voters will never react positively to titles that:
- Attempt to explain that a shot is candid, or otherwise explain editing or lack thereof
- Attempt to make a connection to the challenge topic; "shoehorning"


Yes, I agree. I was simply testing my luck, and in that instance it worked against me.
05/05/2008 12:29:56 PM · #2
Originally posted by Blue Moon:

ok, I knew once I entered it and saw my scores that the title was definitely a part of that and I should have left out "candid", but is that really justification for scoring something down? It's not like I titled it "You Suck and So Does Everyone You Know", also if any of you had looked at my profile you would see that I've been in 3 side challenges.


FWIW, I don't think that you got scored down, at least to any great degree, for the inclusion of the "(candid)" portion of the title... on the other hand, it certainly did not help. In general, I think that voters will never react positively to titles that:
- Attempt to explain that a shot is candid, or otherwise explain editing or lack thereof
- Attempt to make a connection to the challenge topic; "shoehorning"
05/05/2008 12:06:17 PM · #3
ok, I knew once I entered it and saw my scores that the title was definitely a part of that and I should have left out "candid", but is that really justification for scoring something down? It's not like I titled it "You Suck and So Does Everyone You Know", also if any of you had looked at my profile you would see that I've been in 3 side challenges.


05/02/2008 09:50:54 PM · #4
BeeCee: "just don't enter the shot." Yup, that is what I was getting at much earlier, because if a title just doesn't summon itself up naturally, MAYBE it is an indication and this can be a very useful way to judge our own photos.
05/02/2008 07:51:55 PM · #5
I like it when they say that your model is fat...and it is a self portrait. Now that is just low.
05/02/2008 05:57:43 PM · #6
hmm

I wonder about titles that indicate some sort of emotion, e.g. 'just beautiful' or 'a sad and moving sight'. Those sort of things are no-nos for me -- don't tell me how to feel about the picture...
05/02/2008 05:31:42 PM · #7
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Putting explanations in the title will only hurt your score, IMO. For me, they are at the top of my "Most annoying things in a title" list, along with putting in the FStop or shutterspeed or "handheld" or "straight from camera". That is what the notes section is for.


I agree. Usually those kind of titles are used as an excuse for a poor shot or to attempt to connect a shoehorn. If it's either of these, a title will not help; just don't enter the shot! And if it's meant to impress us with the great shot you got from, for example, your cellphone, I don't want to know before voting. Impress me with the shot, not with the gear you used.

"Shot from a moving car" means, please don't mark me down for my terribly blurry shot of an otherwise great scene! Well, I'm sorry, I will, and maybe even an extra mark for grovelling.

Yes, sometimes a title on what appears to be a shoehorn leads me to take a second look and see the connection for myself, and that's fine. But creating a connection out of thin air to use in a title? Nope, not gonna work with me.

A good title sets a mood, or gently guides you in the general direction the photographer would like you to go, or surprises you with a laugh; it doesn't demand or beg.
05/02/2008 03:43:30 PM · #8
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:

Originally posted by Mr_Pants:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


You underestimate the ease at which people are offended by seemingly innocuous words these days. ;-)



I find that enormously offensive!


I find your user name offensive...why can't it be Mrs. Pants, or Mr. Panty.


Ms Pants if you please!
(See, now I'm offended)
:-))

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 15:47:11.
05/02/2008 03:37:12 PM · #9
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


You underestimate the ease at which people are offended by seemingly innocuous words these days. ;-)



I find that enormously offensive!


I find your user name offensive...why can't it be Mrs. Pants, or Mr. Panty.
05/02/2008 03:25:49 PM · #10
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


You underestimate the ease at which people are offended by seemingly innocuous words these days. ;-)



I find that enormously offensive!
05/02/2008 02:18:42 PM · #11
Originally posted by tnun:

jedusi, I'm not sure you are speaking to what I said about the relationship between title and photo. You just say a photo needs a title to be complete. I'm not sure I agree. Is "untitled" a title, is "Study No. X" a title? I'm much more interested in how the title or lack of title works with the photo, and how we might learn.


Yes - I think there are times when 'Untitled' can be a valid title, but probably only on a strong image where the visual elements demand your attention, and in effect a title is redundant. If not I think there is a danger that it can infer a lack of effort. It strikes me that if you enter a challenge and want as high a score as possible, then it is entirely reasonable that you should make the photo as complete an article as possible - for me this would include a title.

Likewise 'Study No. X' would imply to me that it is part of an ongoing series and therefore again a valid title.

Originally posted by tnun:

For example, see Blue Moon's comment below. I'm not sure I would have scored her picture lower, but I agree that the inclusion of "candid" was unnecessary and distracting and just not artful. You, Jedusi, said that the title was to make people think the way you wanted them to think about the photo, and Blue Moon's attempts that... But I don't want to make anyone think in any particular way about my photo, I want them to see it in their own way. The title is presentation, a frame, and sometimes things are better without a frame, but if there is a frame it has to be right, and this requires vision/judgement.


Looking at Blue Moon's title I would suggest that there are two elements to it. The first is the actual title she wanted to give it "Lost in thought" - then she adds on in effect a caveat to try and explain (or maybe justify) the girls pose and her lack of control over it. I suspect that many would view the second piece of info as redundant. I can't say I have a great issue with it except it does prevent the title scanning so well, because as you take it in you are left with the explanation rather than the emotion.

Originally posted by tnun:

icu1965 earlier speaks about the agony (my word) of being required to come up with a title to complete an art project. These are sensitive matters.


I think we have all been there - I thoroughly admire people who can repeatedly come up with titles that set off a picture, and I certainly don't put myself in that category. There can even be times when you have a title that you think really adds to a picture and others are like "So ??"
An example of this is my shot 'Looking to the Future' where the aim is to draw the viewers eye beyond the mother to the cub, as she is both the immediate future but also the future of the (endangered) species. For me it fit's really well - but that doesn't mean that anyone else is enthralled by it :- )

I have sat for ages looking at an entry agonising over a title that will somehow do it justice or encourage the viewer to pay it a reasonable amount of attention. Most of the time I get no where :- )

Originally posted by tnun:

To Blue Moon: I have sometimes felt I wanted to explain things about my photos so that they could be seen as I see them, so I do understand a bit about the "candid," but in the challenges we just have to let our children fend for themselves. (The Side Challenges are a great place to explain what it is we have done or are trying to do along with the photo).


I think you are right - Side challenge are always a good place to learn. Maybe we should have an 'Alternative Titles' side challenge where people submit a photo with their initial title and other participants offer alternatives. That way you get to see the many, many ways people look at a shot, and the different things many of them get from it.

05/02/2008 01:14:29 PM · #12
It would be very difficult to understand what the person emotions were at this point. Maybe it was not intended to be sarcastic at all.
05/02/2008 11:57:42 AM · #13
Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Is there a way to make it blank? I know if you leave it empty it puts "untitled"


Just put a space. As long as you've used some form of keyboard stroke it will recognise it.

eta; I used that method once on this;


Just reread the comments and one asked, "And the title is?" while another mentioned that they liked the lack of title. Just goes to show...


Yipe!

Actually, please don't do that! Having no title means there's no clickable link in places where the title is used as a link. That breaks certain things.

~Terry


That's a systems problem, Terry, and not a rule that should be imposed on the users and expected of them to follow. In fact, you might just have invited people to try this. (Rules are made to be... oh, never mind.)

I think it would be a fairly easy audit to force a title that's not blank or spaces. Where's the IT guys?


It is not a rule; Terry was making a request.

And, I thought that particular bug had been fixed a while back, but maybe not.

05/02/2008 11:49:38 AM · #14
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

There needs to be a random pool of titles and if someone leaves it blank or uses a space, a random title is assigned. I'll volunteer to create some of the random titles! :)

PLEASE make sure one of them is not 'Natures Beauty'. I think a little part of my soul dies each time I see that old chesnut get rolled out. ;)
05/02/2008 08:06:38 AM · #15
Originally posted by LeeD:

Originally posted by PapaBob:

Bear how big is your head, how do your store all that information...........


Google is his friend. ;)


While I'd be the first to acknowledge that Google and I are on fairly intimate terms, it just so happens that THIS particular factoid did not require Google's help :-) I've long been fascinated by Leonardo DaVinci, so I have read deeply about him and his works. And to answer the original question, my hat size is 7 3/4, which is a fairly big head as heads go...

R.
05/02/2008 07:38:09 AM · #16
Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Is there a way to make it blank? I know if you leave it empty it puts "untitled"

Just put a space. As long as you've used some form of keyboard stroke it will recognise it.


Yipe!

Actually, please don't do that! Having no title means there's no clickable link in places where the title is used as a link. That breaks certain things.

~Terry


That's a systems problem, Terry, and not a rule that should be imposed on the users and expected of them to follow. In fact, you might just have invited people to try this. (Rules are made to be... oh, never mind.)

I think it would be a fairly easy audit to force a title that's not blank or spaces. Where's the IT guys?

There needs to be a random pool of titles and if someone leaves it blank or uses a space, a random title is assigned. I'll volunteer to create some of the random titles! :)
05/02/2008 07:20:19 AM · #17
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Is there a way to make it blank? I know if you leave it empty it puts "untitled"


Just put a space. As long as you've used some form of keyboard stroke it will recognise it.

eta; I used that method once on this;


Just reread the comments and one asked, "And the title is?" while another mentioned that they liked the lack of title. Just goes to show...


Yipe!

Actually, please don't do that! Having no title means there's no clickable link in places where the title is used as a link. That breaks certain things.

~Terry


That's a systems problem, Terry, and not a rule that should be imposed on the users and expected of them to follow. In fact, you might just have invited people to try this. (Rules are made to be... oh, never mind.)

I think it would be a fairly easy audit to force a title that's not blank or spaces. Where's the IT guys?
05/02/2008 07:02:18 AM · #18
A single comment like that doesn't mean anything, unless you get more of the same. To put too much care into this one comment would essentially validate that the person who wrote the comment represents the general population.

Its almost like reading reviews and deciding not to buy an item just because one person said "it sucked", when 500 people said it was the best thing they bought.

Originally posted by cjoconn22:


I guess I'm not really sure how to take it.


05/02/2008 02:27:39 AM · #19
jedusi, I'm not sure you are speaking to what I said about the relationship between title and photo. You just say a photo needs a title to be complete. I'm not sure I agree. Is "untitled" a title, is "Study No. X" a title? I'm much more interested in how the title or lack of title works with the photo, and how we might learn.

For example, see Blue Moon's comment below. I'm not sure I would have scored her picture lower, but I agree that the inclusion of "candid" was unnecessary and distracting and just not artful. You, Jedusi, said that the title was to make people think the way you wanted them to think about the photo, and Blue Moon's attempts that... But I don't want to make anyone think in any particular way about my photo, I want them to see it in their own way. The title is presentation, a frame, and sometimes things are better without a frame, but if there is a frame it has to be right, and this requires vision/judgement.

icu1965 earlier speaks about the agony (my word) of being required to come up with a title to complete an art project. These are sensitive matters.

To Blue Moon: I have sometimes felt I wanted to explain things about my photos so that they could be seen as I see them, so I do understand a bit about the "candid," but in the challenges we just have to let our children fend for themselves. (The Side Challenges are a great place to explain what it is we have done or are trying to do along with the photo).

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 02:30:41.
05/02/2008 02:15:44 AM · #20
Originally posted by Blue Moon:

As for the comment you recieved I saw no indication that they scored you lower for the title and I didn't find the tone to be rude either.


People automatically assume if the comment is negative the vote handed out must be low. Some of my most critical comments have come on photos I have personally voted 6, 7 and 8.
05/02/2008 02:07:20 AM · #21
Originally posted by Blue Moon:

Maybe you don't agree with my title, but should it really be scored lower because of it? I guess it's a matter of opinion, but my opinion is NO.

I vote YES. Actually for me, a bad title (like the one you mentioned) may not make me deduct points, but it will almost certainly stop me from bumping it up, which I frequently do. As others have mentioned, to some people (myself included), the title is part of the presentation and will be judged accordingly as a minor part of the overall entry.

Originally posted by Blue Moon:

btw titled my photo the way I did because I was afraid people might think my subject had a boring pose, but I wanted to show that this was not a planned photograph.

Putting explanations in the title will only hurt your score, IMO. For me, they are at the top of my "Most annoying things in a title" list, along with putting in the FStop or shutterspeed or "handheld" or "straight from camera". That is what the notes section is for.
05/02/2008 01:16:52 AM · #22
yeah I had this happen to me on my last free study challenge, my title was "Lost in Thought (candid)" and got this as a reply:
"It's great that you take candid photos, but putting that in the title makes me vote it lower. Try to keep it simple..."

Maybe you don't agree with my title, but should it really be scored lower because of it? I guess it's a matter of opinion, but my opinion is NO. As for the comment you recieved I saw no indication that they scored you lower for the title and I didn't find the tone to be rude either.

btw titled my photo the way I did because I was afraid people might think my subject had a boring pose, but I wanted to show that this was not a planned photograph.

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 01:26:54.
05/02/2008 12:27:43 AM · #23
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Yipe!

Actually, please don't do that! Having no title means there's no clickable link in places where the title is used as a link. That breaks certain things.

~Terry


I noticed that when I went to get the pic number. Actually, I learned that trick in a thread! But nobody links to my pics anyway, so it doesn't matter, right? ;)
(I'll be good and not do it again, I promise!)

Message edited by author 2008-05-02 01:05:31.
05/02/2008 12:08:20 AM · #24
Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Is there a way to make it blank? I know if you leave it empty it puts "untitled"


Just put a space. As long as you've used some form of keyboard stroke it will recognise it.

eta; I used that method once on this;


Just reread the comments and one asked, "And the title is?" while another mentioned that they liked the lack of title. Just goes to show...


Yipe!

Actually, please don't do that! Having no title means there's no clickable link in places where the title is used as a link. That breaks certain things.

~Terry
05/01/2008 09:11:45 PM · #25
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I'd prefer Sudden Death.


So would I.

On post, I let the title affect my vote. Yeah. And I vote by my personal tastes too... I don't apologize. And I comment and I don't care if you mark it helpful or not. Funny things is I've never received a negative e-mail concerning my comments. (though it wouldn't bother me.)
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