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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Vignettes in Basic Editing
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 03/26/2008 03:00:53 PM · #1
Here's mine, adding this because I'm still a bit sore about it, although I feel better seeing others were confused. This occurred at a time when Tone Mapping was included in basic, which seemed much more intense that a lens vignette - especally added in ACR. Regardless, I can live with this now :)

Here is my example:


The vignetting actually didn't add that much too, although to be honest, this one was not going to do much anyway.
 03/19/2008 03:26:58 PM · #2
*rebumpity*
 03/19/2008 01:36:01 PM · #3
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by Citadel:
No vignettes. Some people didn't get it before. Now everyone should. No vignettes in basic. Kaput.

Hold on there, cowboy! You cannot make blanket statements like that.

Vignettes are legal if they are part of the original capture. Just like lens flare and motion. Kaput.


Poop! I meant to go back and clarify that. Yes you are correct. No vignettes added in post processing. I stand corrected and greatly humbled in the prescence of those who present their opinions more articulately and accurately than myself. *bow*
 03/19/2008 01:36:01 PM · #4
Originally posted by brownsm:
to me, adding a vignette in basic ruleset was always obviously illegal. I knew that, not because I had to search for it in the forums, but because it's explicitly spelled out in the rules themselves.

They clearly state: You may not: ... use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as vignettes , lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.

bold added by me for emphasis.


yeah, the bit in bold just got added. That's what this thread is about.
 03/19/2008 01:34:57 PM · #5
Originally posted by brownsm:
to me, adding a vignette in basic ruleset was always obviously illegal. I knew that, not because I had to search for it in the forums, but because it's explicitly spelled out in the rules themselves.

They clearly state: You may not: ... use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as vignettes , lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.

bold added by me for emphasis.


LOL - that was actually added there today THAT is what the post is about :o)
 03/19/2008 01:32:06 PM · #6
to me, adding a vignette in basic ruleset was always obviously illegal. I knew that, not because I had to search for it in the forums, but because it's explicitly spelled out in the rules themselves.

They clearly state: You may not: ... use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as vignettes , lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.

bold added by me for emphasis.
03/19/2008 01:15:28 PM · #7
Originally posted by Gordon:
Not sure if that counts as clearing it up though :)

I'm pretty sure that I thought it might possibly clear it up a little bit in my personal opinion. ;-P
 03/19/2008 01:15:01 PM · #8
Originally posted by Citadel:
No vignettes. Some people didn't get it before. Now everyone should. No vignettes in basic. Kaput.

Hold on there, cowboy! You cannot make blanket statements like that.

Vignettes are legal if they are part of the original capture. Just like lens flare and motion. Kaput.

03/19/2008 01:14:18 PM · #9
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Not sure if in basic if we can use these tools to remove a lens vignette. Doesn't seem to have been cleared up yet.

Didn't I already answer that an hour ago?


Well you said you think you believe it might have happened in your opinion.

Not sure if that counts as clearing it up though :) So it'd only be a violation if you do it badly ? (too much, not enough)

The nice thing about basic rules was that they used to be tool based, not results based. This seems to shift that a shade.

Message edited by author 2008-03-19 13:15:25.
 03/19/2008 01:10:52 PM · #10
Originally posted by Gordon:
Not sure if in basic if we can use these tools to remove a lens vignette. Doesn't seem to have been cleared up yet.

Didn't I already answer that an hour ago?
 03/19/2008 01:10:34 PM · #11
Originally posted by Gordon:


Not sure if in basic if we can use these tools to remove a lens vignette. Doesn't seem to have been cleared up yet.


I know of people that do that, especially with the 24-105L on a 5D.
 03/19/2008 01:05:44 PM · #12
Originally posted by metatate:
Yeah - I remember finding this feature in the latest Camera Raw plug-in and seeing how it "faked-in" the vignette - really sort-of unexpected in that sort of application.


Its mostly there I think to remove a lens vignette. It can be used to add one, but just like adding -2 to 2 gives 0, its really there to remove effects at that point. There are also real filters you can get to put over the lens to balance out a vignette (by making the center of the frame darker). Again these sorts of tools can be used in the RAW converter to balance out those differences.

Plenty of people use it for effect though.

Not sure if in basic if we can use these tools to remove a lens vignette. Doesn't seem to have been cleared up yet.

Message edited by author 2008-03-19 13:06:23.
 03/19/2008 12:17:42 PM · #13
Originally posted by Judi:
And ine too. DQ in Basic Editing.



ok this shot totally cracks me up. Sorry :P
 03/19/2008 12:15:51 PM · #14
Just to be sure. Adding vignetting is illegal but how about correcting it? Some RAW converters may even correct lens specific features like this automatically when reading lens exif data. How about automatic CA correction?

Best, Hrannar
 03/19/2008 12:10:31 PM · #15
Originally posted by dstrohl:
Originally posted by bfox2:


So my question is, lets say I'm shooting with my 24-105 which often leaves a slight vignette in pictures shot wide open. Am I then allowed to enhance the minor vignette ALREADY THERE with out fear of DQ?


there it is... get a fullframe camera and see how easy it is to get a vignette... the settings for the vighnette in raw conversion is a LENS setting. it is always there, it is a user option and is not adding anything to the image... just "enhancing" it.

on another note, basic rules are dumb. but hey, what do i know.


however - get an image with no vignette - add the process negatively in the same "Lens" setting you are using and you add a vignette which wasnt there in the original.

And i wasnt refering to you as lazy in particular Ragga2000 - i was just referencing myself as an example and a general feeling of "why should i look for it when it should be presented to me in the rules plain and simple" which is the attitude of a fair few people i would imagine. I wasnt attacking anyone merely defending the fact that it was a good move by the SC because it cuts the confusion.

As Citadel said - should be moot point now... it is in the rules - we wont have further discussions on it which were the route to understanding before, and probably the impetus behind the SC decision to put it in the rules (unless you want to go ahead and discuss the semantics of the word "add"...)

Message edited by author 2008-03-19 12:11:10.
 03/19/2008 12:07:39 PM · #16
Originally posted by bfox2:
lets say I'm shooting with my 24-105 which often leaves a slight vignette in pictures shot wide open. Am I then allowed to enhance the minor vignette ALREADY THERE with out fear of DQ?

I don't think so. In my opinion turning a slight vignette into an obvious one would risk an added feature DQ, however I believe we've allowed use of the lens tool to remove vignettes as a corrective edit.
 03/19/2008 12:02:59 PM · #17
Yeah - I remember finding this feature in the latest Camera Raw plug-in and seeing how it "faked-in" the vignette - really sort-of unexpected in that sort of application.
 03/19/2008 12:01:01 PM · #18
The vignette rule got me too. I was using Lightroom for PP in this shot and being unfamiliar with Lightroom at the time, I went down the editing options without even thinking of the filter aspect of what I was doing. Not that I was trying to pull a fast one, I even mentioned it in the description. Too bad because it was doing OK in the voting.
03/19/2008 11:39:54 AM · #19
Originally posted by bfox2:


So my question is, lets say I'm shooting with my 24-105 which often leaves a slight vignette in pictures shot wide open. Am I then allowed to enhance the minor vignette ALREADY THERE with out fear of DQ?


there it is... get a fullframe camera and see how easy it is to get a vignette... the settings for the vighnette in raw conversion is a LENS setting. it is always there, it is a user option and is not adding anything to the image... just "enhancing" it.

on another note, basic rules are dumb. but hey, what do i know.
 03/19/2008 11:36:17 AM · #20
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
You may not... use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.


So my question is, lets say I'm shooting with my 24-105 which often leaves a slight vignette in pictures shot wide open. Am I then allowed to enhance the minor vignette ALREADY THERE with out fear of DQ?
 03/19/2008 11:31:45 AM · #21
Originally posted by mark_u_U:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by 777STAN:
Thank You, Ms. Judi & Site Council! This is the excellent specificity of wording that truly speaks to understanding...Message logged and noted! :)


Ms. Judi? What's she have to do with this? :o)

~Terry


Simple, Judi deserves to be thanked. period. ;)

OT, and @ Ragga2000: How can you not have a clue that vignetting might not be legal in basic? Unless of course caused by an object in front of the lens.

The bottom line in basic is that you can not apply effect filters and not do anything local, not even dodge and burn. Vignetting is a specific case of dodge and burn and definately something one applies locally.


IN basic you can´t add or change anything!! But you can change "everything" - as long as it is to the overall picture!!! I did REALLY not think of vignetting as a burn and dodge feature... Didn´t even cross my mind! ( my recently DQ picture wasn´t any better adding vignetting so after I tried it I reduced it again but failed to put it all the way to zero, left it at +2 AND cropped the image afterwards so vignetting isn´t even an issue in this picture!!)

"New image area, objects and features" - maybe it is the fact that english is not my first language - I did not understand it as adding vignetting was adding a new image area, objects or features!!!

AND finally (I hope) - it is legal to "add" color and "reduce" color and "add" crop AND so on.... I really do not understand why some of you are arguing about this... Speaking for my self, I did not know it was not allowed...!!! I know now...

Having said that, I am glad this has been "corrected" in the rules as this has clearly been misunderstood before...


Message edited by author 2008-03-19 11:36:32.
 03/19/2008 11:27:56 AM · #22
To be honest I am not seeing why there is a debate here. SC has clarified this and made it explicit. No vignettes. Some people didn't get it before. Now everyone should. No vignettes in basic. Kaput.
 03/19/2008 11:24:49 AM · #23
Originally posted by dstrohl:
adding vignette... is not adding something

Huh? That does not compute.
 03/19/2008 11:12:31 AM · #24
but, if it is not already there, it is adding something. . ..
 03/19/2008 11:10:50 AM · #25
god forbid someone try to do something interesting within their "basic" images.

some lenses have a natural vignette, adding vignette in RAW conversion is not adding something to the image, it is already there. sounds "basic" enough to me.
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