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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Advanced Editing Rules Change (Jan 14)
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 02/25/2008 08:24:12 PM · #1
Here is what I found.

Originally posted by scalvert:
What Kirbic said. If you can tell there's distortion, then you're in risky territory since the distortion itself would likely be a considered significant created feature. Using it for light touchup should be fine.


Originally posted by kirbic:
Per mk's post, if used sparingly, it is OK. It's a bit like playing with dynamite, though. It's pretty easy to go too far and have if blow up in your face 8-o
Seriously, any really significant shape or position changes will probable result in a DQ. Use carefully.
02/25/2008 08:22:38 PM · #2
Well I guess we need an SC to see this and have them post. I thought you can't use it at all but if you are saying that it has been used and it's allowed then I would like to use it sometimes.
 02/25/2008 08:21:57 PM · #3
Here's a good read on it from a prior discussion: Is the Liquify tool legal to use in...

ETA - Rules DO change, as is evident in the nature of this thread itself...so proceed with caution. If it was me, I'd bounce if off a SC member (or two) in advance.

Message edited by author 2008-02-25 20:25:09.
 02/25/2008 08:17:36 PM · #4
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by oskar:
In advanced editing challenge, am I allowed to use liquify tool to make the model look slightly more skinny. While it's not altering the image as a whole and done in moderate manner ?


No you can not use the liquify tool,

YOU MAY NOT: use distortions to create new effects or radically alter objects.

Actually, I believe liquify has been used and is legal used in moderate doses (advanced editing only).
 02/25/2008 08:16:49 PM · #5
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by oskar:
In advanced editing challenge, am I allowed to use liquify tool to make the model look slightly more skinny. While it's not altering the image as a whole and done in moderate manner ?



No you can not use the liquify tool,

YOU MAY NOT: use distortions to create new effects or radically alter objects.


What if I'm not radically altering objects, but just slightly ?
 02/25/2008 08:14:16 PM · #6
Originally posted by oskar:
In advanced editing challenge, am I allowed to use liquify tool to make the model look slightly more skinny. While it's not altering the image as a whole and done in moderate manner ?



No you can not use the liquify tool,

YOU MAY NOT: use distortions to create new effects or radically alter objects.
 02/25/2008 08:04:03 PM · #7
I'm sorry if this has appeared before or if I seem a bit slow, but I just would love to have this absolutely clear.

In advanced editing challenge, am I allowed to use liquify tool to make the model look slightly more skinny. While it's not altering the image as a whole and done in moderate manner ?

Personally I would think it should be allowed without hesitation, but I would love to get a straight answere about this.

Thanks
 01/29/2008 11:40:58 PM · #8
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by jonejess:
I not sure how anyone that doesn't closely follow the forums would be aware, based only on the announcement that Photomatix, LucisArts, and Virtual Photographer are no longer allowed in basic. I guess they'll find out.


I would think this is adequately covered by: No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.

To my knowledge, DQs on this issue are very few and far between.

~Terry


I thought that wording was in there when tonemapping was considered legal as well but I'm probably mistaken. I won't get into the debate about what constitutes an "affect".

You represent the SC. You say no tonemapping. Got it.
 01/29/2008 10:53:49 PM · #9
Originally posted by jonejess:
I not sure how anyone that doesn't closely follow the forums would be aware, based only on the announcement that Photomatix, LucisArts, and Virtual Photographer are no longer allowed in basic. I guess they'll find out.


I would think this is adequately covered by: No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.

To my knowledge, DQs on this issue are very few and far between.

~Terry
 01/29/2008 10:40:42 PM · #10
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by jonejess:
Originally posted by basssman7:
Originally posted by jonejess:
[Um...when did tone mapping become illegal in basic?
I missed that interpretation of the rules.


Tone mapping is NOT legal in basic. Shadow/highlight is legal in basic.


Like I said since when? I just checked through three separate threads over the last 45 minutes related to the changes and I did not see SC say tone mapping is illegal. Which of the multiple threads on this subject do I need to read to get the definitive answer?


Try here, but even that that point, they were already largely treated as illegal, though a few entries prior to that had been allowed through for one reason or another.

~Terry


I'll have to take your word for it and withdraw the photo I had submitted. I saw the discussions and I saw that SC was thinking about it. I saw nothing definitive but I'll just assume its there.

It seems unreasonable that anyone should need to search through multiple threads to get an answer.

I not sure how anyone that doesn't closely follow the forums would be aware, based only on the announcement that Photomatix, LucisArts, and Virtual Photographer are no longer allowed in basic. I guess they'll find out.

Message edited by author 2008-01-29 22:42:44.
 01/29/2008 10:26:24 PM · #11
Originally posted by jonejess:
Originally posted by basssman7:
Originally posted by jonejess:
[Um...when did tone mapping become illegal in basic?
I missed that interpretation of the rules.


Tone mapping is NOT legal in basic. Shadow/highlight is legal in basic.


Like I said since when? I just checked through three separate threads over the last 45 minutes related to the changes and I did not see SC say tone mapping is illegal. Which of the multiple threads on this subject do I need to read to get the definitive answer?


Try here, but even that that point, they were already largely treated as illegal, though a few entries prior to that had been allowed through for one reason or another.

~Terry
 01/29/2008 10:22:09 PM · #12
Originally posted by basssman7:
Originally posted by jonejess:
[Um...when did tone mapping become illegal in basic?
I missed that interpretation of the rules.


Tone mapping is NOT legal in basic. Shadow/highlight is legal in basic.


Like I said since when? I just checked through three separate threads over the last 45 minutes related to the changes and I did not see SC say tone mapping is illegal. Which of the multiple threads on this subject do I need to read to get the definitive answer?

01/29/2008 10:14:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by jonejess:
[Um...when did tone mapping become illegal in basic?
I missed that interpretation of the rules.


Tone mapping is NOT legal in basic. Shadow/highlight is legal in basic.
 01/29/2008 10:11:41 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by snaffles:
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.


Please...

"Tone Mapping" has ALWAYS been legal in advanced editing; in fact, it was legal in BASIC editing until a couple weeks ago. Basic just got MORE basic. Not only that, Photoshop's Shadow/highlight adjustment is very close to what tone mapping is, and it is STILL legal in basic editing. And it has ALWAYS been legal in advanced editing to make multiple different "exposures" of the same RAW capture and layer them together for expanded range or contrast effects.

The ONLY thing that has changed is that now, in advanced editing, you are allowed to use actual different exposures of the exact same scene for your layering. It's not a big change at all, it doesn't require any more knowledge than the previous approach (which is still sometimes the best approach) and it doesn't require any different software to do it; Photoshop has HDRI built into it. Some of us like Photomatix better than PS for HDRI, but so what? Some of us like Neat Image or Noise Ninja better than PS noise removal too...

It's REALLY time to stop worrying about this. It's just not a major change, it's just a slight evolution. I don't even think there'd be any hue and cry at all if they hadn't attempted, for a SINGLE challenge, to write time-lapse photography into the same ruleset, and opened up the gates of hades :-)

R.


Um...when did tone mapping become illegal in basic?
I missed that interpretation of the rules.
 01/29/2008 09:47:31 PM · #15
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:


That is correct. You must use at least one photo, and no more than 10. A single photograph is perfectly legal.



I hate it when someone tries to use less than one photo. ;-)
 01/29/2008 09:45:37 PM · #16
Originally posted by digifotojo:
Hello Terry, how are things in Millersville, PA? (Montco here).

Re: Advanced Editing. I almost pulled my entry after reading the rules. But it does specify your entry MUST be created from 1-10 captures of a single scene. Am I right to assume a single capture is not DQ fodder in this case?


That is correct. You must use at least one photo, and no more than 10. A single photograph is perfectly legal.

~Terry
 01/29/2008 08:58:53 PM · #17
Hello Terry, how are things in Millersville, PA? (Montco here).

Re: Advanced Editing. I almost pulled my entry after reading the rules. But it does specify your entry MUST be created from 1-10 captures of a single scene. Am I right to assume a single capture is not DQ fodder in this case?

01/29/2008 08:44:49 PM · #18
Originally posted by snaffles:
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.


If you don't want to do it, don't do it. People regularly ribbon in Advanced challenges with very little post-processing.

~Terry
 01/29/2008 08:39:53 PM · #19
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by snaffles:
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.


That's why we have Basic editing challenges too.


...buy most of the time the really interesting challenges are Advanced. Guess I better learn more about PS.
01/28/2008 01:10:42 PM · #20
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Why not just allow these rules to run for a couple weeks, per Langdon's suggestion, so we can all make an informed decision about their effect, instead of just screaming that the tonemapped sky is falling?


Are you new to the internet ?
 01/28/2008 12:31:04 PM · #21
Originally posted by snaffles:
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.


Please...

"Tone Mapping" has ALWAYS been legal in advanced editing; in fact, it was legal in BASIC editing until a couple weeks ago. Basic just got MORE basic. Not only that, Photoshop's Shadow/highlight adjustment is very close to what tone mapping is, and it is STILL legal in basic editing. And it has ALWAYS been legal in advanced editing to make multiple different "exposures" of the same RAW capture and layer them together for expanded range or contrast effects.

The ONLY thing that has changed is that now, in advanced editing, you are allowed to use actual different exposures of the exact same scene for your layering. It's not a big change at all, it doesn't require any more knowledge than the previous approach (which is still sometimes the best approach) and it doesn't require any different software to do it; Photoshop has HDRI built into it. Some of us like Photomatix better than PS for HDRI, but so what? Some of us like Neat Image or Noise Ninja better than PS noise removal too...

It's REALLY time to stop worrying about this. It's just not a major change, it's just a slight evolution. I don't even think there'd be any hue and cry at all if they hadn't attempted, for a SINGLE challenge, to write time-lapse photography into the same ruleset, and opened up the gates of hades :-)

R.
 01/28/2008 12:18:12 PM · #22
I like some "Specials", Temporary test-market rules for a certain challenge, that pop up occasionally.

"Cloudsme", above suggested voting. Why that would be a novel, democratic idea. A, B, C, and allow for writing in your comments/details.

Message edited by author 2008-01-28 12:18:26.
 01/28/2008 10:39:51 AM · #23
Originally posted by snaffles:
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.


That's why we have Basic editing challenges too.
 01/28/2008 10:35:53 AM · #24
But what about people who aren't experts in Photoshop? I don't even know what tonemapping is, let alone how to use it - and for what it's worth I feel that there should be a single-capture category, as it's obvious these new Advanced rules are going to give the upper hand to those already highly conversant in PS.
 01/23/2008 07:11:33 PM · #25
Originally posted by langdon:
As with any rule set, this one is subject to change. If there's an obvious flaw, we'll attempt to fix it right away, but otherwise we'll let these run for a few weeks and see how they work out.


Considering that we have yet to see the results of even one challenge with these new rules, how are some people so sure of their problems?

Why not just allow these rules to run for a couple weeks, per Langdon's suggestion, so we can all make an informed decision about their effect, instead of just screaming that the tonemapped sky is falling?

~Terry
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