Wedding gone bad - DPChallenge Forums

04/25/2007 06:55:26 PM · #4

Sorry if I find it funny for being accused of only self interest. When the group of you seem first and foremost concerned with your rights as photographer's without consideration for the individual.

There are so many laws that protect businesses and so few that protect the individual consumer. And the first thing most people did in this thread was declare their rights as photographers. With a small disclaimer of token sympathy toward the individual's plight.

These are their memories. Those things to share with their family, friends and loved ones. Most of what you guys bring up to me is insane selfishness. I mean, really, could one of you tell me how we are supposed to get in touch with the photographer that took my great-grandparents wedding photo back around 1920? Yes, we enlarged and had it touched up and printed for their funeral. Of course, that will be illegal soon. Who's stealing from who.

Originally posted by "megatherian":

If you want to rant about how we should only obey the laws that suit us at the time then stick it in the rant section.

Like there is a single person in this thread who has obeyed every law. I am quite sure most have at least exceeding the speed limit on occasion. J-walked. Smuggled snacks into a movie theatre. And many more.

I just found it disgusting for the first response of so many being a declaration of THEIR rights. (Of course, I'm self serving because I think this was reprehensible and wrong.)

*shakes head*

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

04/25/2007 05:49:58 PM · #5

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Do you mean unjust?

Since the I is right next to the U I'd say he does mean unjust. Wouldn't you think that this is simply a typo?

Ordinarily I would, but when an error like that is repeated several times I find it better to ask.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

04/25/2007 05:13:40 PM · #6

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Do you mean unjust?

Since the I is right next to the U I'd say he does mean unjust. Wouldn't you think that this is simply a typo?

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

04/25/2007 04:54:29 PM · #7

Yea, well, I thought I had clicked on teh "so over it" thread, imagine my surprise. . . .

sorry, back to your regularly scheduled topic

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/25/2007 04:52:37 PM · #8

Request topic change: Wedding thread gone bad

04/25/2007 04:43:32 PM · #9

Originally posted by theSaj:

The world view according to Jason is the only one I've got. Just like the world view you have is according to you. It's shaped by our experiences.

No, I don't believe status quo equates to right. No, I don't believe any injust law has to be followed. Were that the case we'd still have slavery, forced marriage and multitude of other heinious actions. But because people enact their right as a human to disregard laws when they are wrong or injust - we are able to affect change.

Do you mean unjust?

In your examples, the unjust laws were changed through legitimate channels, not simply disregarded and disobeyed until they went away.

All of these great legal injustices you speak of suffering, what have you personally done to change the law? Do you act on your convictions or pretend that violating the law because you don't agree with it is action enough?

As for the OP, if the photographer is unwilling to fulfill their end of the contract, then the OP should take them to court for breach of that contract. It would not be unreasonable to ask the court to award reproduction rights to the photographs in question.

DjFenzl

04/25/2007 03:46:59 PM · #10

Originally posted by theSaj:

"Oh, I don't care about your loss. But you'd be evil if you did anything with that photo cause it's not yours!"

now who's twisting other people's words - show me one person in this thread who even remotely expressed they don't care about the OP's loss.

Most people in this thread don't agree with the OP breaking the law and you've gone on a tirade ever since. Calm down, this thread isn't about you.

If you want to rant about how we should only obey the laws that suit us at the time then stick it in the rant section.

04/25/2007 03:29:42 PM · #11

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I only know you by what I read here. And I don't judge you, I only look at what I see here and voice my opinions of that.

From that I get an image of one who interprets the rules according to his wishes, with no concern for being fair and equitable to all and then rants and raves when others don't see the world according to Jason.

Unfortunately, that attitude makes you much more typical than you think.

Sorry if I don't hold must respect for your system. Or the fact that I have that system imposed on me. Or the fact I've had rules thrown at me much of my life with great injustice.

*shrug*

Though, I do get pissed when I say something and have it repeatedly twisted and quoted as saying something I did not.

And even when I leave said discussion have it thrown in my face repeatedly. Something I feel you are completely misquoting me on and mis-representing to other people in other discussions.

So I politely ask you to stop. I will pursue action with the site council. Please tell me my inconsistancies....PLEASE

And don't give me the **** about wanting to take away other people's rights and put restrictions. Which was not what I was not the point I was making. Nor is it presented in a fair context.

AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, I READ SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. That the guidelines on said issue do prescribe such mental health issues being reported in many cases - there is just at present some ambiguity on the federal & state levels as to what constitutes it and when.

The world view according to Jason is the only one I've got. Just like the world view you have is according to you. It's shaped by our experiences.

No, I don't believe status quo equates to right. No, I don't believe any unjust law has to be followed. Were that the case we'd still have slavery, forced marriage and multitude of other heinious actions. But because people enact their right as a human to disregard laws when they are wrong or unjust - we are able to affect change.

In this case, the case of topic of this thread, the protection of said photographer's copyright in the face of their behavior is an unjust burden on the couple. And for a number of people to have only that to offer in respect to this thread was astoundingly disgusting.

"Oh, I don't care about your loss. But you'd be evil if you did anything with that photo cause it's not yours!"

Yes, my worldview is tainted. It's because my years obeying one-sided rule systems showed me a number of things: a) perpetrators seldom were punished b) victims always suffered c) if victims ignored the rule systems and responded a & b often are reversed.

*shrugs*

Is it sucky...perhaps. Maybe I just have a sucky view of the world. But for all the millions dead in this world I think mine is closer to the truth of reality.

(corrected for typos on injust)

Message edited by author 2007-04-25 18:39:52.

04/25/2007 11:31:50 AM · #12

Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I just question your sincerity since when it comes to the law, the opinions you profess seem motivated not by fairness or consistency, but self interest.

You really don't know me. I can't help it if your problem is that you judge people by your own bias and prejudice.

As for my sincerity to the law. I do not have much. I've expressed this. But I have great sincerity to justice and morality (which tends to be relative to a fair degree).

Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f1.8

04/25/2007 10:09:31 AM · #13

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I just question your sincerity since when it comes to the law, the opinions you profess seem motivated not by fairness or consistency, but self interest.

You really don't know me. I can't help it if your problem is that you judge people by your own bias and prejudice.

*shrugs*

I've gotten that a lot in life. I am not your typical individual. It grates on me. I've been likewise falsely accused. When I put in a grade review in college because I believed two grades had been switched. I was accused of just being selfish and trying to get a better grade. Which was balogne. Because the accuser had no idea that I had put in a second grade review on another course which I got a C- on but thought I had missed too much time to pass. And if the grade review had turned out as I had expected would have resulted in an "F". (BTW...the grades weren't switched. A report grade had failed to be recorded.)

I have often been accused of this same criticism even more when it comes to copyright. Having been told that I am merely trying to justify my wrong actions. This too is incorrect. I sincerely and passionately believe what I express regarding copyrights, not from a self-serving stance but indeed from a moral viewpoint. (I believe us to be on the path of a new kind of slavery if we're not careful.) No, I do not have my stance simply to justify downloading music as so many have accused me of. I own a couple thousand CDs. Those aren't copies or CD-Rs but originals, with rare exception of a few out of print unavailable CDs. I actually try to support artists I like.

I also strive to live by what I preach, sometimes imperfectly but to the best of my abilities. If someone has a non-commercial use for any of my photographs then I grant use. I simply ask for the authorship to be mentioned.

It gets frustrating and hard on the soul when you are accused of such and really aren't. I've been accused of being a racist because of some of my political stances that I am firm on in my views. And yet, two of the three women I dated before my wife were black. I go to what is pretty much a black church. For me color is not really an issue, respect is.

I've been accused of hating the poor. But when I owned a multi-family I had a tenant who I bent over backwards helping her and giving her leeway on the rent. Why? Because she was always polite and respectful to me. She was working poor and I grew up working poor. I know how hard it is, especially for mothers. So there were times I let her be 3 months late on the rent. Mind you, I was also only charging $700/month for a 2-bedroom a block from the water in a nice neighborhood. And that included heat and satellite TV. I've volunteered in food pantries and done a variety of social work. But obviously I hate the poor because I think welfare is a horrible thing and only destroys people. Instead of helping them get on their feet.

I am against global warming alarmism and it's mis-representation and I drive an SUV. So I must hate the environment - obviously. Yet far from the truth. I spent 4 yrs in high school and nearly two years in college majoring in marine environmental studies. And regardless of how I hate the politics and GW alarmism. I have advocated for the reduction of pollution regardless. But because I don't fit the politically correct mold. I am prejudged.

As for my sincerity to the law. I do not have much. I've expressed this. But I have great sincerity to justice and morality (which tends to be relative to a fair degree).

So is having you mis-interpret and mis-judge me anything knew....nope. Not at all. But sometimes it's hard on the heart and you just get fed up with it.

*shrug*

MAK

Leica M Monochrom

04/25/2007 09:48:44 AM · #14

I have shot 3 weddings and in EVERY CASE they have had the originals .. for my work I ask a fee, they get 20 shots of their choice edited, after that they get the lot on a CD to do with as they please...

Not my wedding is it?.. why the hell would I want all that on my HDD?.. I have asked for permission to use some couples shots for advertising and they have always obliged..

With all this robbery going on it may be worth my while using that fact as a slogan to sell myself as a wedding photog..

Its YOUR Day, they're YOUR photos

Terrible thing to do to someone on their special day, I hope the photog receives a payback from mother nature.

04/25/2007 09:10:08 AM · #15

Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by "spazmo99":

Yet in other threads, you advocate more restrictions on individual freedoms. Of course, in that same thread, you also advocated expanding those freedoms. You seem to regard the law as it benefits you personally even when you contradict yourself.

a) I was advocating "less restrictions" than others were advocating, making an allowances due to the concern of the loss of life.

b) REALLY GETTING SICK OF YOU TWISTING AND CLAIMING THAT QUOTING ME AS BEING FOR RESTRICTIONS. It's like you guys are shouting "we should ba driving because people die". Then quoting statistics on how inexperienced and young drivers are more likely to cause accidents. And then when I offer forth... "instead of taking the right to drive away from everybody, why not just ensure they are mature enough to drive by perhaps setting a minimum age". Then you sit there saying I am trying to restrict when I am merely trying to get you guys to restrict less.

THEN YOU DRAG IT HERE AND SHOVE IT IN MY FACE - I AM FAST APPROACHING A POINT OF SAYING THINGS AND CALLING YOU THINGS I REALLY DON'T WANT TO....SO I AM ASKING YOU TO PLEASE STOP...NOW!

I just question your sincerity since when it comes to the law, the opinions you profess seem motivated not by fairness or consistency, but self interest.

PhantomEWO

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/25/2007 09:04:23 AM · #16

Originally posted by oOWonderBreadOo:

oh come on! do a trash the dress session!!

you know you wanna do it and we wanna see it!!! :0)

I did the same thing for my son's wedding last year. They were at Lake Powell in southern Utah. After the wedding the bride and groom climbed to the top of a 50 foot cliff and both jumped into the lake holding hands. AND yes they were still dressed from the wedding ceremony, she was wearing the full very expensive wedding dress. It made great action pics.

jjared

Canon EOS-7D

04/25/2007 08:30:20 AM · #17

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't think this would be a big thread.

The photographer had good references. She did the engagement photographs with no problems. I don't know if something happened where maybe she lost her data and didn't have anything backed up or what. For some reason after doing all of the work to take the pictures she just vanished.

I think I will tell them that I'd redo the pictures. There were some people that took some pictures so it isn't like they don't have any pictures. They don't have any of the posed pictures from the beautiful locations but that can be reproduced.

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

04/25/2007 08:18:05 AM · #18

The photographer may claim to have been "unavoidably delayed" in sending prints to the OP. And in court, he may say that he found out the OP copied the proofs, which violated the contract, and the photographer decided not to supply the images to someone who would violate his copyright.

I know its just a snow job, but I think copying or altering the proofs will negatively impact any legal action the OP is taking.

Also, if the OP decides to get pictures from the guests, he should also get videos and convert a couple of frames into photographs. They may print fairly well at smaller sizes.

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

04/25/2007 03:44:55 AM · #19

oh come on! do a trash the dress session!!

you know you wanna do it and we wanna see it!!! :0)

Dantzr

Pentax K-x

04/25/2007 01:32:56 AM · #20

Originally posted by Rebecca:

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.

And how!!!!!!!!!!!

But, getting to the original post...

jjared...

i think the best thing to do would be to scrap that and any proofs that you may have from the so-called photographer and do what many suggested... ask around and see if you can find people who may have taken pictures of their own that you could use.

I have been a photographer in the "film" world for almost 35 years and did weddings for many years until my best and most utilized camera stopped working... but only after screwing up pictures from my sister's wedding. I felt so bad. But my sister... the one person in the family who thinks... called everyone who was at the wedding and got them to bring us the negatives from all that they had taken. From those, we were able to get about 50 pictures that probably outclassed the ones I had originally taken.

These pictures taken by friends and family may not fit the classification of a professional photo... too much this, too much that, etc. But, with a little darkroom work we were able to crop out alot of the too much, dodge and burned the stuff that needed more prominence or needed to hide a bit. Actually... the shots turned out pretty nice and she (my sister) is quite proud of her wedding photographs.

Seriously jjared.... save the proof files from the photog, but make your own prints. In today's photography world, especially with the advent of digital, you can work wonders with prints using Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro and others.

Good luck!!

Felodese

04/25/2007 01:22:19 AM · #21

Originally posted by _eug:

I recommend renting a tux for him and getting her back in her dress and shooting REAL wedding type pictures for them.

that picture isn't really that great... you could prolly do better!

Rebecca

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

04/25/2007 01:12:31 AM · #22

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.