What is happening, again a DQ ? - DPChallenge Forums

11/14/2003 07:05:48 PM · #2

Originally posted by sonnyh:

I just don't understand all these people that read the rules when they signed up but now want to change everything. If the rules make you unhappy then there are different places where you can go to have things the way you would like. Why stay here and then bitch and moan that you don't like it. This is a free country. No one is holding you or anybody else that keeps griping about the "editing rules" hostage.
When I get to the point that I am not happy about these rules or any other rules then I move on.

Actually, many of those who are the most vocal in support of change have been here a lot longer than you or I. So most of them have as much, if not more, right to argue for change that we do to tell them to go elsewhere. While I've been (weakly) on the non-change side of the debate, I've never suggested they go somewhere else, because they have a lot more invested here than I do.

11/14/2003 06:55:35 PM · #3

Originally posted by sonnyh:

Yeah, I actually would of liked that one. The truth is I already shoot 60 hours a week under guidelines. I don't need to have the same restrictions when I shoot for "fun"... ;D

What is it about the rules that people don't understand? If you want to spot edit your photos then go to another site and spot edit to your heart's content. If you want to belong to this site then you have to abide by the rules just like everyone else.
I just don't understand all these people that read the rules when they signed up but now want to change everything. If the rules make you unhappy then there are different places where you can go to have things the way you would like. Why stay here and then bitch and moan that you don't like it. This is a free country. No one is holding you or anybody else that keeps griping about the "editing rules" hostage.
When I get to the point that I am not happy about these rules or any other rules then I move on.

The rules have changed several times since I have been here, its called growth. :)

sonnyh

Canon EOS-7D

11/14/2003 06:52:17 PM · #4

ScottK

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/14/2003 06:38:05 PM · #5

Originally posted by scab-lab:

Yes, it matters the most before you press the shutter. But Scott, you know, post processing is a part of digital photography. I dont think anyone here will argue that point.

Me either. I was just kidding. :)

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

11/14/2003 05:48:25 PM · #6

I just wanted to be the first one on the next page. ;D

11/14/2003 05:45:31 PM · #7

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by scab-lab:
What matters the most if you are a beginning photographer or seasoned pro, happens before you press the shutter button.

Then no need for any editing, eh? :)

I've been beaten down through attrition - I don't care one way or the other. However, I an finding it hard to keep track of who's on which side of the fence. Might I suggest an addition to the info under our names at the left: "Position on free-editing restricts: For/Against/Ambivalent".

.../Other for me.

11/14/2003 03:58:32 PM · #8

Originally posted by ScottK:

Yes, it matters the most before you press the shutter. But Scott, you know, post processing is a part of digital photography. I dont think anyone here will argue that point.

Message edited by author 2003-11-14 15:59:06.

ScottK

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/14/2003 03:37:08 PM · #9

Originally posted by scab-lab:

What matters the most if you are a beginning photographer or seasoned pro, happens before you press the shutter button.

Then no need for any editing, eh? :)

I've been beaten down through attrition - I don't care one way or the other. However, I an finding it hard to keep track of who's on which side of the fence. Might I suggest an addition to the info under our names at the left: "Position on free-editing restricts: For/Against/Ambivalent".

11/14/2003 03:01:56 PM · #10

Not too keep repeating myself, but Ill say it again:

What matters the most if you are a beginning photographer or seasoned pro, happens before you press the shutter button.

The restrictive rules here do not make you have just as much of a chance of winning a ribbon then the guy next to you.

Learning how to use your camera has nothing to do with the rules here.

Saying you are happy with the way things are, will stunt your growth as a photographer. There is no end to learning photography. It is a life long adventure.

Enough said.

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

11/14/2003 02:54:21 PM · #11

Originally posted by coolhar:

But there very persistence is evidence in itelf that this method won't work.

I don't quite understand that logic, but

Originally posted by coolhar:

The lack of action indicates that the rules will not change soon. I'm getting used to it.

My understanding is that this is incorrect.

coolhar

11/14/2003 02:39:20 PM · #12

"Many of them vocally express the opinion in the forums. You'll see that in the repeated claims that the current editing rules are too open and that people should enter straight from the camera for example."

I don't see that opinion expressed in the forums nearly as much as the one that we should loosen the rules. Those who want them changed sometimes give me the impression that they think they can get them changed merely by keeping up the steady drumbeat. In almost every forum thread someone finds a way to bring in the idea that loosening the rules would make this a better site. But there very persistence is evidence in itself that this method won't work.

I really wish this topic would stop coming up again and again in the forums. Until the admins/site council decide to take some action, this really is a dead horse. And by "take some action" I don't mean further discussion, debating, voting, surveying or polling. The lack of action indicates that the rules will not change soon. I'm getting used to it.

Message edited by author 2003-11-14 14:59:39.

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

11/14/2003 02:16:07 PM · #13

I've done color and B&W printing. I also have done print retouching with a brush. Some of it was major like removing a pole. I use to make 4x5 internegs from my 35mm slides all the time. I'm glad we now have digital! So the arguement about retouching digital photographs and how it's not part of "taking" the photograph crackes me up. You truelly don't have full control unless you master all steps from capture to the final product. That's photography.

11/14/2003 01:59:39 PM · #14

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I was always deathly afraid to try retouching film myself when I worked at a photo lab. I didn't mind using spot-tone on B&W prints, but that was as far as I ever went. The people who did this kind of work and got paid for it are VERY VERY good at it.

Yup, I've seen prints roughly 11x14 that cost $5000.00 mainly due to the additional retouching work that's been done to them - they are just amazingly great pictures - from fantastic original captures.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/14/2003 01:55:14 PM · #15

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Another method I have seen used to edit a film image (especially with tranparency film to avoid the increase in contrast associated with printing Ilfochromes or other direct positive prints) is to dupe an image onto a larger format color negative, then retouch that internegative and then print using color negative print materials.

Sounds good - I'm really ignorant about most of the processes used, both for digital and film though I can certainly see the possibilties from the final product that I've witnessed.

11/14/2003 01:38:54 PM · #16

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Another method I have seen used to edit a film image (especially with tranparency film to avoid the increase in contrast associated with printing Ilfochromes or other direct positive prints) is to dupe an image onto a larger format color negative, then retouch that internegative and then print using color negative print materials.

Sounds good - I'm really ignorant about most of the processes used, both for digital and film though I can certainly see the possibilties from the final product that I've witnessed.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/14/2003 01:34:40 PM · #17

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by goodtempo:
how do you spot edit a negative?

You use brushes and dyes to paint the negative, to build up density.
I've been working with printers who will do the negative retouching and print artwork for the final image. Basically I describe what I want done and they do it - this is all pretty standard for film techniques.

It can also be done by scanning the image and working it in photoshop, but most of the work I've been involved with has not used digital processes at all, but still does a huge amount more than is done within the rules here - with the purpose of producing a natural final image.

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

11/14/2003 01:34:06 PM · #18

Originally posted by coolhar:

It's true that it is your opinion, but does not make it the truth.

Many of them vocally express the opinion in the forums. You'll see that in the repeated claims that the current editing rules are too open and that people should enter straight from the camera for example.

coolhar

11/14/2003 01:29:50 PM · #19

It's true that it is your opinion, but does not make it the truth.

11/14/2003 01:23:05 PM · #20

Originally posted by goodtempo:

how do you spot edit a negative?

You use brushes and dyes to paint the negative, to build up density.
I've been working with printers who will do the negative retouching and print artwork for the final image. Basically I describe what I want done and they do it - this is all pretty standard for film techniques.

It can also be done by scanning the image and working it in photoshop, but most of the work I've been involved with has not used digital processes at all, but still does a huge amount more than is done within the rules here - with the purpose of producing a natural final image.

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

11/14/2003 01:14:43 PM · #21

Originally posted by coolhar:

"There seems to be a large group of people here that believe digital photography is closly related to point and shoot-drop your film off at the drug store- style photography."

Do you think learning about DOF is related to P and S photography?
Do you think learning to select the right lens for an interchangeable lens camera is P and S?
Look at what people are asking about in the forums.
Look at what people are marking as helpful among comments.

My above statement is true... it says a large group of people here, and I have come to that understanding from the many of posts I have read here and by looking and voting on 100 percent of the images in challenges that I have entered.

coolhar

11/14/2003 01:11:14 PM · #22

goodtempo

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/14/2003 01:05:26 PM · #23

how do you spot edit a negative?

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Why not just shoot film?

I have been. And you know what, for the ones that I'm printing large to sell - I'm spot editing the negative, getting the printer to dodge and burn it, doing selective colour edits and so on.

11/14/2003 01:02:15 PM · #24

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Why not just shoot film?

I have been. And you know what, for the ones that I'm printing large to sell - I'm spot editing the negative, getting the printer to dodge and burn it, doing selective colour edits and so on.