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11/01/2003 04:03:58 PM · #1 |
Since people are throwing out suggestions, why not add a little bit of what everyone wants.
Keep the two limited editing challenges, one for members and one open.
Add a third challenge with either semi-limited or no holds barred editing. - Member Only
Add a fourth two-week long juried limited-entry challenge. This requires the photos to meet a set technical? criteria before being allowed into the challenge. - Member Only
PROS:
Four possible opportunities to submit.
Two different entry timelines.
The ability to play with PS or whatever editing program you use.
An increase of 'perks' for those who pay the membership fee.
An increase of 'perks' to woo people to pay the membership fee.
Two more chances to get a ribbon
Etc
CONS:
Possible site overloading issues
Likely increase of needed work on the site
Four sets of photos needing votes & comments
Two times as many Rants about voting & comments
Need for a jury to pre-judge the entries for the two-week challenge
Conspiracies regarding the jury panel
Non-stop ranting about why a photo didn't make the cut
Two more chances to get last place
Etc
The easiest way I can image having the jury work out is having a pool of rotating volunteers. The caveat: when your turn to pre-judge is in effect, you cannot enter that challenge. This may make the volunteer pool rather empty though.
What do y'all think?
- Sia
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11/01/2003 03:22:24 PM · #2 |
I think it is silly to put up a nice photo if it has nothing to do with the challenge. I also think somethings are really contrived trash.But in my few weeks here, I have forced myself to appear creative and I am amazed at some of the photos I have viewed. It seems that the winners are either classically or technically excellent, or super-creative.
Don't give up on the challenges- the way I see it is this
the bad or ill fitting photos make it easier to appreciate the
really creative or classically good photos.
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11/01/2003 03:10:07 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Right, what craigant said. Let's change some rules so I can score higher. |
Who said anything about changing the rules? I like the rules. We are talking about adding to the site. |
I also like them. Time limit is for creativitation, do your best in short time, according to a subject. PS editing rule is because this is a photo site, not a PS one. I guess coolhar was just joking. :-) Anyway I asked him whether he has some toughtful ideas. I do not have. |
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11/01/2003 12:34:02 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Right, what craigant said. Let's change some rules so I can score higher. |
Who said anything about changing the rules? I like the rules. We are talking about adding to the site.
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11/01/2003 12:03:03 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
I just didn't want to see experience photographers leave because the quality of voting has gone down (assuming ones on decent pictures mean it has). |
These kind of bitch sessions are what tend to make me disappointed in this site. So many responses, so little time...
So here's just one: Everyone complains about winning/great photos getting 1s and 2s, and seem to think this is a new, ignorant breed of participants. I just took a sample glance through some of the earliest winners. Almost every one had at least a couple of 1s and 2s, including Drew's winner in the first challenge, Road Signs, which had only 9 entries and about 90 votes.
(Nothing personal against you David - just an easy target.) |
No problem here... The odd thing is that I really don't have a problem with how the site works today, I just didn't want to see the more experience photographers leave. I'm an I/T architect so I tend to start looking for technical solutions to problems that I encounter. Showing Average vote by Critique Club seems like an easy way to give submitters another perspective on the quality of their work. |
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11/01/2003 11:45:36 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by vadvirag:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Right, what craigant said. Let's change some rules so I can score higher. |
What rules for example? |
The one which says "1 = bad, 10 = good" might be a good starting point .... |
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11/01/2003 08:45:41 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Right, what craigant said. Let's change some rules so I can score higher. |
What rules for example? |
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11/01/2003 06:47:54 AM · #8 |
| Right, what craigant said. Let's change some rules so I can score higher. |
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11/01/2003 06:44:55 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by craigant:
gee my photos are crap and I dont get high scores, all the good photos get the high scores. I feel ripped off. |
Crap? Some more self-confidence after this shot. :-) I really like this and you also got some 6s scores for it. :-)
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11/01/2003 06:32:35 AM · #10 |
| gee my photos are crap and I dont get high scores, all the good photos get the high scores. I feel ripped off. |
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11/01/2003 05:57:50 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I wonder if having an extra 2 week challenge would eliminate the snapshots. Give folks more time to take their shot.
I would really like to have a different area where we can just critique photos. I have read that people submit to get critiques. |
2 week-long challenges: That's an interesting idea. We have tried it with the Hungarian similar site "Photorun" and the experiences we had are the following:
* The assignments got a lot of submissions, and most of them were really good shots, subject and quality as well. (There are also a number of low quality shots, like here, I think an absolute beginner who just shots out the window without thinking about the composition won't think that his shot's not that okay.)
* Another experience is that some people got bored because we had to wait ages for the vote session and the new assignment - "Oh man, I can't beleive we are still voting for primary colours?" and forum posts like that. Some of them even forgot that this site exists at all. But I guess those who take it serious and are the most likely to improve are mostly the ones who stayed.
* Now we are making an experiment about 1-week challenges. We haven't any experiences about it now, some say 1 week is not enough, 2 weeks are too much. I will tell you our experiences after some weeks, okay?
About critique bin: I like the idea very much! :-) Although I plan to be a member by the time I improve a lot and I can make some shots that will be acceptable for talented photographers as well, but I think non-member beginner users - including me - are those who really need some honest critiques on their shots in order to learn and improve. And portfolios are only for members.
I await the others' ideas and opinions. And of course, how it could be managed is another impontant point.
Message edited by author 2003-11-01 06:02:18. |
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10/31/2003 07:06:27 PM · #12 |
| I like the critique bin idea. One of the drawbacks (for the reviewer) of the Critique Club that you can't skip a photo. |
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10/31/2003 06:58:13 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
I just didn't want to see experience photographers leave because the quality of voting has gone down (assuming ones on decent pictures mean it has). |
These kind of bitch sessions are what tend to make me disappointed in this site. So many responses, so little time...
So here's just one: Everyone complains about winning/great photos getting 1s and 2s, and seem to think this is a new, ignorant breed of participants. I just took a sample glance through some of the earliest winners. Almost every one had at least a couple of 1s and 2s, including Drew's winner in the first challenge, Road Signs, which had only 9 entries and about 90 votes.
(Nothing personal against you David - just an easy target.) |
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10/31/2003 06:19:04 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
II think that was the purpose of the new Forum category of Individual Photograph Discussion. People who want feedback on a specific, non-entry photo, can start a thread for that. The discussion is then supposed to be more focused than a thread on, say, everyone's sunset photos ...
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These photos usually get lost in the shuffle of the forum and I am not going to go search in the forum for any photo.
I like what kiwi suggested.
Kind of like a critique bin. Maybe the photos could stay in this bin for a week or two and then automatically get put into the aprropriate portfolios.
Message edited by author 2003-10-31 18:19:32. |
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10/31/2003 05:42:19 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Photos needing critiqued area.
I try hard to give my opinion on new photos I see, but I have to search around for them. I would be nice if we had a section for them. |
I think that was the purpose of the new Forum category of Individual Photograph Discussion. People who want feedback on a specific, non-entry photo, can start a thread for that. The discussion is then supposed to be more focused than a thread on, say, everyone's sunset photos ...
I think an occasional extended (2-4 week) challenge would certainly be a worthwhile experiment; a counterbalance to the Speed Challenges. |
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10/31/2003 05:33:01 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I wonder if having an extra 2 week challenge would eliminate the snapshots. Give folks more time to take their shot.
I would really like to have a different area where we can just critique photos. I have read that people submit to get critiques.
Photos needing critiqued area.
I try hard to give my opinion on new photos I see, but I have to search around for them. I would be nice if we had a section for them.
What do you all think? |
I like the idea Sonifo. I see that a lot of new portfolio pics are getting a lot of comments these days. I am sure if we had a section called "photos to be critiqued on", that anyone can critique as they please. Kind of like a critique bin. Maybe the photos could stay in this bin for a week or two and then automatically get put into the aprropriate portfolios.
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10/31/2003 05:22:54 PM · #17 |
One thing which I cannot believe.. is that Pitsaman proposed to stop submission after 100 received.. that is exactly how my site works at the moment! =)))))
However I did not put those and other limits thinking of quality, but just to, somehow, define controllable metrics for the workflow (which, of course, can be changed: 100 could become 200 or even 50 depending on the circumnstances).
Sonifo's idea is interesting too. Stretching the time limits would certainly affect the quality, even if people, on the other end, could get bored by having to wait more to know the final outcome.
The tricky part of these issues is that each of them favours one positive aspect while reducing some other one. |
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10/31/2003 05:16:50 PM · #18 |
I wonder if having an extra 2 week challenge would eliminate the snapshots. Give folks more time to take their shot.
I would really like to have a different area where we can just critique photos. I have read that people submit to get critiques.
Photos needing critiqued area.
I try hard to give my opinion on new photos I see, but I have to search around for them. I would be nice if we had a section for them.
What do you all think? |
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10/31/2003 05:16:47 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Maverick:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
The truth is we are getting more and more snapshots in challenges!
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I agree, that's why I haven't been submitting ; )
I think the problem is people enter just to enter. If you don't have something you are happy with, try again next week - while others will disagree, I don't think you should submit a picture unless you honestly think it is "good" (for lack of a better word). Photographic quality is subjective however, and this post won't change anything, I'm just voicing my opinion. |
Part of this quality issue is also due to the restriction over the time limitations. And that is not a critique actually!
I have evaluated the issue very carefully and:
If you remove time limitations people will be able to submit better photos because they belong to their portfolio.
However, the photos will not be fresh! And that is not a minor issue.
I think that one of the biggest strength of DPC is in the freshness of the photography submitted.
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10/31/2003 05:12:18 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by kiwiness:
Originally posted by glimpses:
Actually, I certainly mentioned this idea (panel of judges) a few months ago, and even recently speaking about a website which I am developing.
If nothing else, whoever is interested could experiment it on my site.
I will need a thorough testing of the mechanism to understand its strengths and weaknesses. |
Post the link to your site. |
It is in beta version (testing) and running on my local server at the moment.
There are also some minor but essential features (like an online reference to explain how it works) missing.
I will release a test version asap but before than that I need to find enough people willing to test it.
The services, actually, are pretty much working.
The test then, it is more about how people will perceive the workflow and the rules. |
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10/31/2003 05:08:22 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
The truth is we are getting more and more snapshots in challenges!
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I agree, that's why I haven't been submitting ; )
I think the problem is people enter just to enter. If you don't have something you are happy with, try again next week - while others will disagree, I don't think you should submit a picture unless you honestly think it is "good" (for lack of a better word). Photographic quality is subjective however, and this post won't change anything, I'm just voicing my opinion.
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10/31/2003 05:00:26 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Actually, I certainly mentioned this idea (panel of judges) a few months ago, and even recently speaking about a website which I am developing.
If nothing else, whoever is interested could experiment it on my site.
I will need a thorough testing of the mechanism to understand its strengths and weaknesses. |
Post the link to your site.
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10/31/2003 04:55:13 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
The truth is we are getting more and more snapshots in challenges!
Also truth is that someones trash is someones treasure!{my child is the most beautiful}
Earlier I was ranting about adding filter for submitted photos,where panel of judges (who know what the hell they are doing} filter submitted photos and let maximum of 100 into a challenge!
We will get more quality and I don't have to look at bunch of crap in Grace challenge{including mine].
I mean we don't let all 50 contestants from USA states to go to the Miss World contest! |
I think the panel of judges idea was mine, sorry for adding to the confusion. It seemed to me that watching photos of good to great quality get slammed with 1's was a concern. I thought using the votes from a respected team of "judges" would offer another perspective on a photographers success and growth. I just didn't want to see experience photographers leave because the quality of voting has gone down (assuming ones on decent pictures mean it has). |
Actually, I certainly mentioned this idea (panel of judges) a few months ago, and even recently speaking about a website which I am developing.
If nothing else, whoever is interested could experiment it on my site.
I will need a thorough testing of the mechanism to understand its strengths and weaknesses.
Message edited by author 2003-10-31 16:56:02. |
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10/31/2003 04:27:16 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
The truth is we are getting more and more snapshots in challenges!
Also truth is that someones trash is someones treasure!{my child is the most beautiful}
Earlier I was ranting about adding filter for submitted photos,where panel of judges (who know what the hell they are doing} filter submitted photos and let maximum of 100 into a challenge!
We will get more quality and I don't have to look at bunch of crap in Grace challenge{including mine].
I mean we don't let all 50 contestants from USA states to go to the Miss World contest! |
I think the panel of judges idea was mine, sorry for adding to the confusion. It seemed to me that watching photos of good to great quality get slammed with 1's was a concern. I thought using the votes from a respected team of "judges" would offer another perspective on a photographers success and growth. I just didn't want to see experience photographers leave because the quality of voting has gone down (assuming ones on decent pictures mean it has). |
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10/30/2003 07:29:57 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by jjbeguin:
Now lets dream a little:
I would go for a “free edit B&W” Challenge group. Why B&W? I think it would help keep us more focused on the essentials: composition and emotion. It would also mostly distract us from all temptations such as fiery sunsets, yellow, bug-infested daisies, gigabytes of fall foliages reflected on quiet waters etc. Could help us finding other ways to surprise each other. You never know…
Free edit? Anybody serious about digital photography and creation should experiment with these new tools. Why artificially impose the limitation of a fading technology to an emerging one. |
Wonderful idea! I'm all for it. B/W work is something very new to me, except for the old photos that my dad let me take when I was a little girl and we had nothing but b/w film :) B/W is fascinating, and I would just LOVE to concentrate on it for a while, and learn about what makes it work. Many of the "translations" into b/w don't seem to be quite it, something seems to be missing, and I want to figure out what it is, and use it.
Ursula
ANASTASIA, I hope you stay, just for a very selfish reason, I like looking at your photos :))) And I was looking forward to more of them.
Message edited by author 2003-10-30 19:33:15.
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