Titles affect judging? - DPChallenge Forums

11/15/2003 11:07:50 PM · #1

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/15/2003 11:05:44 PM · #2

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I tested mine by sending the photo to my mom and asking her what the title was. When she said the same thing I was thinking I figured I was headed in the right direction.

I tried a similar thing with my mom for a while, although not with a photo but a poem. She'd fall asleep every time.

Jason

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

11/15/2003 10:49:29 PM · #3

I have been following this site for some time, though I just recently started to submit photos (1 so far). :)

When I first discovered the site, I thought to myself that I would never submit a title with my photos. The Photo itself should convey the thought and if the photo needed a title... well I need to shoot a better photograph.

Now that I watch the challenges more seriously... I fell that the title is necessary for some of the judges. It helps express the thought intended and possibly saves you from a lower score. Just my humble opinion.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/15/2003 10:36:20 PM · #4

I tested mine by sending the photo to my mom and asking her what the title was. When she said the same thing I was thinking I figured I was headed in the right direction.

11/15/2003 10:16:15 PM · #5

Challenge: Literalisms
Type: Members Challenge

Submission Deadline: Sunday, November 16th, 2003
Description: Take a common phrase and create a photographic representation of it.

Will this Challenge need a Title? ;)

Z, I'm interested.

Message edited by author 2003-11-15 22:19:47.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/15/2003 09:53:39 PM · #6

As an aside to those who feel that titles are an unnecessary adjunct:

While voting and commenting today, I came upon an entry I perceived to be 'pleasant' and 'skillfully rendered', a picture many of you, I am sure, would consider 'accessible'. The initial position of the image on my screen did not reveal a title, nor did I 'register' a title from the thumb.

After considering the photo for a minute or so, I entered my comment and, as an afterthought, scrolled down to uncover the title. The title caused me to reconsider my initial impression, to revise my comment and to write this post.

[To anyone with a deeper interest, I'll be happy to identify the photo after the challenge has run its course].

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/15/2003 03:50:17 PM · #7

My pleasure. My specialty is knowing a little about a lot, but not too much about anything.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

11/15/2003 03:41:23 PM · #8

[quote]

Originally posted by Beagleboy:

I have a big problem with titles that have neverending punctuation................... Please use only three ... No more....

The official proofreader's guidelines from Project Guternberg specify that an ellipsis which also comprises the end of the sentence still requires the trailing period, making for a total of four ....

The ellipsis takes the place of and should be punctuated like one or more words. On proper typesetting/publishing systems, it is actually a single character consisting of three closely spaced dots, not the commonly-used sequence of three periods: "�" vs. "..." -- the codes are Alt+0133 for Windows, and Opt-; for Mac.[/quote]

Cool! Thanks for the info General

Message edited by author 2003-11-15 15:44:16.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/15/2003 03:00:08 PM · #9

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I'd never accuse a photographer of creating a title just to make an image meet a challenge and score them lower as a result (although I am sure this practice happens). That presupposes I am able to read the photographer's mind.

A great image gets a high score regardless of title or challenge.

Thank you for keeping an open mind.

Originally posted by Beagleboy:

I have a big problem with titles that have neverending punctuation................... Please use only three ... No more....

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

11/15/2003 01:50:12 PM · #10

I agree with Ronners.

An image title rarely has any impact on how I rate it.

More often than not I don't even know what the title is when I score it. A title might help me understand more about an image, or be clever or funny, but rarely would it ever affect the score. I would never score an image lower because of a "bad" title.

I'd never accuse a photographer of creating a title just to make an image meet a challenge and score them lower as a result (although I am sure this practice happens). That presupposes I am able to read the photographer's mind.

A great image gets a high score regardless of title or challenge.

guobin

Olympus C-750UZ

11/15/2003 01:35:19 PM · #11

Perhaps I should give an example how sometimes titles are important

There is one photograph which I remember vividly, which focuses on an axe. The special feature is that its wooden handle is being chopped off a bit at the end. (sorry, cannot provide the photograph since it is from a forgotten source) Now that there is no context nor title, can anyone know the intent of the photograph? =) shall post its context later on...

guobin

Olympus C-750UZ

11/15/2003 01:23:53 PM · #12

Originally posted by ronners:

To be able to conceive the photo vividly in the head and reproducing it into a masterpiece which everyone understands in a glance is of course the desired outcome, and in this case, the title can be thrown away. (if you allow me to repeat myself)

However I believe I am much less of a master in imagination and photography, to know always my intent before opening the shutter. I would then, upon examining the photo, search for some meaning or reason why my subconscious mind finds it worthwhile to take a snapshot, and reflect it in the title, if it is not going to be obvious to the viewers.

Of course, you cannot stretch it too far. If something is not appealing/attractive/interesting/intriguing/emotive in the first place, who cares about your title.

Message edited by author 2003-11-15 13:28:17.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

11/15/2003 12:56:31 PM · #13

I have a big problem with titles that have neverending punctuation................... Please use only three... No more...

Know what I mean? Or as it would appear in some titles, "Know what I mean?????????????????????????????".

Message edited by author 2003-11-15 13:01:01.

ronners

Nikon D100

11/15/2003 12:44:23 PM · #14

Originally posted by guobin:

If there is no meaning/intent in your photo, you might want to think up a title for it, so that it has a purpose...

I would have to question your notion that you can 'compensate' for a poorly conceived photo by giving it an engaging title. A title then acts as a set of 'go faster stripes' on your photo, when you should be working on arousing an emotional reaction through the photo itself.

In response to Zeuzen's comments, I don't find it accidental that if you go to a gallery the title is only ever visible on very close inspection, and will be presented in such a way that it is many orders of magnitude smaller than the art itself. Titles are really only a convenience for the purposes of identification or cataloging (hence Untitled x).

kinks

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 17.5-45mm f/3.5-5.6

11/15/2003 05:03:35 AM · #15

Originally posted by sonnyh:

A good title whether it is a book, a photo, song or store really makes me appreciate the author a bit more.
Just tonight I was coming home from work and went a different way. While stopped at a light in an "artsy" part of town I turned and looked at this store (which was new) and laughed the rest of the way home. The name of the store was: Jamaican McCrazy!

Sonnyth, you made a comment to my book titles photo and it is sure, you did not read a title or you can not understand it fully.
No problem, nobody who have made comments, did not read it.

I have not read this book, but the title tells for him self... in my mind..

sonnyh

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/15/2003 01:46:26 AM · #16

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/15/2003 12:02:43 AM · #17

6 comments out of 171 doesn't seem to be too bad, especially since a few of your titles are a little abstract (?). (Not a criticism, just an observation.) ScottK

I admit to being new to this site and to photography.
I somewhat agree. Sometimes the obscure will be perceived as abstract. I accept that I will sometimes be scored low because of the �abstract� Titles.

I am on this site for �FUN�. And I learn a lot about photography in the process. It is fun to get reactions, responses, to what I take as pictures.

ScottK I�m glad to clear that up between you and zueszen.

Message edited by author 2003-11-15 00:28:23.

ScottK

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/14/2003 11:30:05 PM · #18

6 comments out of 171 doesn't seem to be too bad, especially since a few of your titles are a little abstract(?). (Not a criticism, just an observation.)

But thanks, now I have some context for Zueszen's comments in the Titles thread. :) I looked through a handful of his shots and couldn't find any similar comments...

11/14/2003 10:44:02 PM · #19

I am new to this site. Here are a few comments I�ve received. the title escapes me,
I don't think I really get the title and how it fits to the photo
Dolphins?
I don't get the title, but it is dream like
I'm not clear on the meaning of this photo in regards to the title
Interesting progression and story line in the photo. Are you asking the viewer a question in your title? Or are you asking yourself if you should have used a different title? Titles are important parts of the presentation :)

I get the feeling the Title has a lot to do with the presentation of the image, and HELPS the viewer understand at least some of the meaning behind it.

That�s my story and I�m sticking to it.:)
Of course, you cannot force a title down a viewer's throat and demand that he thinks about the connection between the title and the photo... quobin
I can try.;)

guobin

Olympus C-750UZ

11/14/2003 10:20:13 PM · #20

If there is a meaning/intent in your photo which is not obvious, the title can help by stimulating thought...

If you have a photo which conveys your intent clearly, there perhaps has no need for a title...

If there is no meaning/intent in your photo, you might want to think up a title for it, so that it has a purpose...

Of course, you cannot force a title down a viewer's throat and demand that he thinks about the connection between the title and the photo...

It is all up to the viewer... And the photographer is one of them...

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/14/2003 09:37:58 PM · #21

Originally posted by ronners:

To me, the title has almost zero importance, unless I'm wondering where a shot was taken. I view this as a photography site, and I personally don't believe that creative writing has anything to do with photography. 'Clever' titles are invariably distracting, and your effort is better spent on the photo itself.

I found it pretty funny to see people include the ISBN number in their 'Books' challenge submissions. That's not really going to have any impact on how I vote on the photo.

The most important part is that any title other than the purely informative is in fact an insult to the viewer's intelligence - leaving no room for them to conjure an interpretation of their own. I'd love to see a challenge with the express stipulation that no title be used. That would indeed be refreshing.

Ron.

Customarily and traditionally photos have titles. Some may be labelled '01' or 'Mesh 14', some tersely desciptive as 'Nude with Glasses' [iron.], another 'Untitled', 'Study' or 'Portrait D'Une Femme'. Whatever the choice, a title effects the photo. No title whatsoever, of course, effects the photo by absence.

One could also say, that every medium is somewhat inclusive of other media. The locale you choose to display your collection, the wall supporting it, the reputation and artistic direction of a gallery. Titles are part of this.

They may also, for the photographer, provide a means to complete or compliment a 'sense' or 'feeling' inherent in the image. If they do not or cannot, they are, to me, just bad titles. A good title, however, 'can' rise to the occasion, very much like an unobtrusive light illuminating an object obscured by darkness.

What the viewer 'does' with a title, whether or not a particular one 'works' with a majority of viewers, to me, is more of a concern for a merchandiser than an artist. As an artist, I am obligated to my senses, to nothing and to no one else.

Message edited by author 2003-11-14 22:54:05.

ronners

Nikon D100

11/14/2003 08:26:20 PM · #22

GoodEnd

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

11/14/2003 08:18:02 AM · #23

Originally posted by Natator:

But nobody ever said it had to be a book cover Kinks. It was just a picture depicting the TITLE of a book.

If the competition had been to do a book cover then I'd agree.

Mine happened to be portrait, but by chance, it would not have concerned me had it been portrait.

I agree 100%! The picture it self must show congruence with the title (not the work or story itself).

Natator

Canon EOS-5D