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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> Abstract Food Results Recalculated
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07/26/2006 10:38:22 PM · #1
Originally posted by Gabriel:

Originally posted by GeneralE:


The problem is that the "border" is indistinguishable from the background of the picture. The entire concept of a "negative space" image is that the background is a major element in the composition, in that without it, you have a completely different picture (i.e. a close-up of the subject).

Given that the black was added, not as a border to set off and frame the background, but to add to the background, and that the background is an essential component of the overall composition, it was DQ'd. Not that I completely agree either, but the decision is clearly consistent with past rulings.

Instructive.
So this shot
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could have been DQ'ed under this rule?
original:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/21124/thumb/111624.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/21124/thumb/111624.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I clearly added undistinguishable black borders after cropping.

Looks like it could have been to me ...
07/26/2006 10:30:21 PM · #2
Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by dudephil:


God no!!! All we need is another mk.


...


Ha - thats actually my fraternity initiation number. We are the Mu Kappa chapter of Sigma Nu - I am the 153rd - thus the MK153.
07/26/2006 05:10:23 AM · #3
Originally posted by GeneralE:


The problem is that the "border" is indistinguishable from the background of the picture. The entire concept of a "negative space" image is that the background is a major element in the composition, in that without it, you have a completely different picture (i.e. a close-up of the subject).

Given that the black was added, not as a border to set off and frame the background, but to add to the background, and that the background is an essential component of the overall composition, it was DQ'd. Not that I completely agree either, but the decision is clearly consistent with past rulings.

Instructive.
So this shot
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/246/thumb/98391.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/246/thumb/98391.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
could have been DQ'ed under this rule?
original:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/21124/thumb/111624.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/21124/thumb/111624.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I clearly added undistinguishable black borders after cropping.
07/26/2006 04:27:08 AM · #4
I personally think Techno was under the influence of 10 valiums, hence his reaction, I definitely have something to learn from his reaction, or I need to buy some valium :-)

How ever, I must say, i also would not have seen the removal of the double reflection as a major element.

Great picture from obviously a great composed photographer

07/26/2006 03:39:39 AM · #5
Ohh
I spent the evening esterday trying to make the same picture. I had a second and a third reflection and even wanted to post a question this morning how do you manage to shout without it.
Nevertheless your picture is so good.

The post processing is just perfect.
07/26/2006 02:07:12 AM · #6
Well: Techno's image is certainly a first class study. The brilliance is admirable and it is a shame that it can not wear its ribbon. Now, about the DQ. The secondary reflections is too borderline to consider as the sole subject for a DQ. This is only my opinion. However, I did point out long ago about the inability to truly discern what is minor and major. For all intent and purposes everything in the image can be considered major yet not everything can be considered minor. It is dependent on your viewpoint and we all know that we all have different viewpoints and worse, they may vary depending on the logical test we put them through. The tougher the test, the less that is available under minor. It can be argued that the image earns its identity as a result of the sum total of all that it contains and therefore everything is major. We take a breath and then we can reason that surely not everything in any image is a major element. You see, we say both with a straight face. So whether we like it or not we must allow the s/c to make this tenuous judgement and we must learn to live with the result. I do not see how else we can do it. Case closed.

However, extending the canvas to me is the real culprit. I onced believed that it was legal if consisted of one solid hue but the general voices from the s.c. convinced me otherwise and upon introspection I agree.

Well, rest assured that your image, skills and your most gracious manner is deeply appreciated. The most impressive egg I have seen.
07/25/2006 11:23:10 PM · #7
As has been noted. What you need is called a "first surface mirror". Take a careful look at the side view mirrors on your car doors and you will see the difference.
07/25/2006 11:06:33 PM · #8
Originally posted by dudephil:


God no!!! All we need is another mk.


...
07/25/2006 10:59:56 PM · #9
Originally posted by alfresco:

Originally posted by mk:

!!!

It's like me...with numbers!


mk clone v. 153


God no!!! All we need is another mk.
07/25/2006 10:51:11 PM · #10
Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by MK153:

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

i can't believe that is considered and "major" element. doesnt look very major to me.


I could see it being major - the untouched image is quite dizzying to me - however after the fantastic edit it is most likely my favorite image on the whole site.


!!!

It's like me...with numbers!


Is that a trademark violation of some kind?
07/25/2006 10:48:15 PM · #11
Originally posted by mk:

!!!

It's like me...with numbers!


mk clone v. 153
07/25/2006 10:41:58 PM · #12
Originally posted by MK153:

Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

i can't believe that is considered and "major" element. doesnt look very major to me.


I could see it being major - the untouched image is quite dizzying to me - however after the fantastic edit it is most likely my favorite image on the whole site.


!!!

It's like me...with numbers!
07/25/2006 10:40:10 PM · #13
Originally posted by Nikonian Ninja:

i can't believe that is considered and "major" element. doesnt look very major to me.


I could see it being major - the untouched image is quite dizzying to me - however after the fantastic edit it is most likely my favorite image on the whole site.
07/25/2006 10:27:39 PM · #14
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

am sure a 'decent' search will bring up a thread where I askes about black borders and (if my memory serves me correctly) I was told even lob sided black borders were ok? (I have had a drunk but am pretty sure of my faks ;)

The problem is that the "border" is indistinguishable from the background of the picture. The entire concept of a "negative space" image is that the background is a major element in the composition, in that without it, you have a completely different picture (i.e. a close-up of the subject).

Given that the black was added, not as a border to set off and frame the background, but to add to the background, and that the background is an essential component of the overall composition, it was DQ'd. Not that I completely agree either, but the decision is clearly consistent with past rulings.
07/25/2006 08:47:25 PM · #15
I can understand the adding of negative space to give a new view of the image as adding too much to receive a DQ. But would the image have been Dq'ed if the negative space was already there and had only cloned out the reflection. Perhaps I don't understand the difference between a major/minor element. I look back to this image from self portrait IV, which was validated, took out a minor photographic element (the part of the crane holding him in the air), but was the major element in creating wazzitation.
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Erick, I am not trying to bring controversy to your image or saying you did anything illegal,it was validated and a great idea. I knew you were taking a risk and am just trying to get clarification from the SC on what the difference is.

07/25/2006 07:33:01 PM · #16
In my opinion, techo should not have been dq'ed. Additional black (a reverse crop of sorts) is not a major element. It is negative space. Now if it was clouds or bushes, then maybe the addition is suspect, but black is black. The double reflection is also minor and should be allowed in Advanced. I always assumed that a major element is something that changes the photo dramatically, like the removal of a person or something like that. If there is a portrait and you remove a huge zit on the tip of the nose, is this a major element? It is for a teenager. :) I think the major element rule needs clarification. Just a thought, I'm not mad at sc or anyone in particular.
07/25/2006 07:22:03 PM · #17
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but I just want to say what a classy guy Techo is! I mean really class act all the way. Also, same goes for Faye but since her image finished only 58th lets keep the focus on where it should be and that's the class that is Techo!

Disclaimer: Just some afternoon sarcasm so don't kill me! I think coolhar was the only one to comment on Faye's positive outlook yet everyone and their immediate family are only applauding Techo for doing nothing different. I guess I find that interesting yet amusing at the same time. :)
07/25/2006 07:13:27 PM · #18
Originally posted by e301:

Originally posted by Konador:

To clarify, the reflection was not the only reason for the DQ. The canvas was also expanded and black negative space added to the sides, changing the composition from the original with empty space which was not there before. Just a note so that people understand it fully.


This is hilarious. I think you should investigate all my challenge submissions, I'm sure you'd find several that you could disqualify. Was that a serious post?

e


am sure a 'decent' search will bring up a thread where I askes about black borders and (if my memory serves me correctly) I was told even lob sided black borders were ok? (I have had a drunk but am pretty sure of my faks ;)
07/25/2006 07:05:23 PM · #19
Originally posted by e301:

Originally posted by Konador:

To clarify, the reflection was not the only reason for the DQ. The canvas was also expanded and black negative space added to the sides, changing the composition from the original with empty space which was not there before. Just a note so that people understand it fully.


This is hilarious. I think you should investigate all my challenge submissions, I'm sure you'd find several that you could disqualify. Was that a serious post?

e

Yep... not saying I agree with it myself though. It was however a clear majority decision.
07/25/2006 07:04:00 PM · #20
Originally posted by Konador:

To clarify, the reflection was not the only reason for the DQ. The canvas was also expanded and black negative space added to the sides, changing the composition from the original with empty space which was not there before. Just a note so that people understand it fully.


This is hilarious. I think you should investigate all my challenge submissions, I'm sure you'd find several that you could disqualify. Was that a serious post?

e
07/25/2006 06:36:04 PM · #21
Originally posted by gulliverita:

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by gulliverita:

Hmmm so... (and just to understand rules) if Techo wouldnt have added the "black border", the clonning would have been fair? I am just traying to understand what is "cloning a mayor element" cause it doesnt seem (for me) he removed that much...


That's what I have been thinking. If any SC are available I have put a request in to have my B/W in color entry looked at because now I'm more confused then ever about the major element rule.


How do I request that? I am also confused now... Do you think they can give us an answer before the deadline? (hmm I have had this picture for days and now I will have to take another, wait for response, re-edit or be DQ`d...) I am not liking this advanced rules :(


Go to Help - contact but it is not a validation it is just an opinion of a SC.
07/25/2006 06:24:29 PM · #22
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by gulliverita:

Hmmm so... (and just to understand rules) if Techo wouldnt have added the "black border", the clonning would have been fair? I am just traying to understand what is "cloning a mayor element" cause it doesnt seem (for me) he removed that much...


That's what I have been thinking. If any SC are available I have put a request in to have my B/W in color entry looked at because now I'm more confused then ever about the major element rule.


How do I request that? I am also confused now... Do you think they can give us an answer before the deadline? (hmm I have had this picture for days and now I will have to take another, wait for response, re-edit or be DQ`d...) I am not liking this advanced rules :(
07/25/2006 06:19:20 PM · #23
Techo's dq was to my advantage and I was able to ribbon as a result. While I am elated, I really commend Techo for the amazingly gracious attitude. I think his image was a ribbon winner and deservedly so. It will always be a great image and Techo will always have my highest respect for the way he has responded. Well done. Thanks to everyone who made some great comments on my shot...

Enzo
07/25/2006 06:17:28 PM · #24
Originally posted by gulliverita:

Hmmm so... (and just to understand rules) if Techo wouldnt have added the "black border", the clonning would have been fair? I am just traying to understand what is "cloning a mayor element" cause it doesnt seem (for me) he removed that much...


That's what I have been thinking. If any SC are available I have put a request in to have my B/W in color entry looked at because now I'm more confused then ever about the major element rule.
07/25/2006 06:09:22 PM · #25
Hmmm so... (and just to understand rules) if Techo wouldnt have added the "black border", the clonning would have been fair? I am just traying to understand what is "cloning a mayor element" cause it doesnt seem (for me) he removed that much...
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