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05/02/2006 06:05:01 PM · #1 |
| IT MAY BE NONE OF MY BUSINESS BUT I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE A SMALL TUTORIAL FOR PEOPLE WHO REGESTER OR BECOME A MEMBER ON POINTS TO LOOK FOR ON VOTING, AND TO EXPECT A LOT OF GUFF IF YOUR NOT SHARP IN PS -JUST LET THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE IN FOR UP FRONT- END OF STORY AND QUESTION EITHER THEY WILL TURN AWAY THEN OR LEARN TO SHUT UP AND PUT UP WITH WHATEVER COMMENTS THEY GET. |
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01/03/2006 01:45:33 AM · #2 |
| I think I agree with Toocool and mesmeraj here. I don't think it takes very long for someone that comes newly here to dpc to figure out the basic idea of the site. 'This is a photo site, where they have these weekly ''contests'' that you can submit photos to, and they are reviewed, voted on and criticised and commented on by the other members of the site.' It seems like it should be very obvious that the person should realize if they put in a photo, it can and will get comments on it. Maybe it should be in BIG BOLD letters though when you submit a photo: If all you want is praise on your snapshot, show it to Mommy and aunt Betsy. |
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01/03/2006 12:14:02 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by just-married:
While, it seems to be a good idea on the surface, I would rather not see it implemented.
Sure, there's lots of complaining in the forums, but for the most part it follows a cycle. People complain initially when they get negative feedback; then one of two things happens. 1) They can't take it and they leave, or 2) they learn that receiving criticism is part of the package of being an artist, and they put on their big-girl panties.
Giving such an easy out seems to welcome people to the site that have no interest in growth, and I'd personally just as soon see them leave in a huff.
Additionally, I doubt most people's ego would let them click your second option, so everyone would like to believe of themselves that they fall into the last category, and the threads in the forums would be unchanged. |
I don't think it is possible to have such a button (what is negative to one person my not be perceived the same way by someone else), but what I don't get is why anyone would care if someone did want it..just don't read the forums that bother you..don't you see, you essentially are asking not to have to read the things that bother you..not so different huh?...
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01/02/2006 11:44:37 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
As I said earlier - I think I am right in principle, but the details could do with improvement.
On the upload page (both for challenges as well as portfolio) we could have ONE box, visible to everyone, that means we welcome ALL comments - the CC box can still be there seperately. |
I like the go/no go option for comments. At least, if the photog has clicked yes, your standard response to PM's can be... "hey, you clicked the box, not me." Conversation over.
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01/02/2006 11:37:42 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by just-married:
How'd I do, good compromise?
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As I said earlier - I think I am right in principle, but the details could do with improvement.
On the upload page (both for challenges as well as portfolio) we could have ONE box, visible to everyone, that means we welcome ALL comments - the CC box can still be there seperately. |
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01/02/2006 11:35:17 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
I just wish that people would simply grow skins! You are on a photo contest site that allows comments. You are gonna get 'negative' comments! You can take your ball and go home after that or you can take the 'negative' comments and use them to improve your work! If you desire no negative criticism of your work this is not the place for you... |
My thoughts exactly!!!
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01/02/2006 11:35:10 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by just-married:
Though I tend to agree with kirbic in this thread, and support the status quo, an alternate suggestion that target's beetle's issue did come to mind.
Perhaps the voting page could simply indicate "yes/no" whether the submitter requested a critique club comment. If yes, it stands to reason that they are open to hearing any/all honest criticism on their photo. If no, a conclusion can't be drawn either way, but at least those with no time to comment can devote their comments for those that they know absolutely DO want the feedback.
How'd I do, good compromise?
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Of course, 2 sentences in I realize that the drawback might be that many more people would request critique club comments, thereby bogging down that system. |
Perhaps a process where there were two boxes one could check would alleviate that problem. One box for those that want CC critiques only and one box for people who are amenable to comments from the general population.
Ray |
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01/02/2006 11:31:44 PM · #8 |
Though I tend to agree with kirbic in this thread, and support the status quo, an alternate suggestion that target's beetle's issue did come to mind.
Perhaps the voting page could simply indicate "yes/no" whether the submitter requested a critique club comment. If yes, it stands to reason that they are open to hearing any/all honest criticism on their photo. If no, a conclusion can't be drawn either way, but at least those with no time to comment can devote their comments for those that they know absolutely DO want the feedback.
How'd I do, good compromise?
...
Of course, 2 sentences in I realize that the drawback might be that many more people would request critique club comments, thereby bogging down that system.
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01/02/2006 11:20:23 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
That would stop pm's during the voting stage, but those aren't even the biggest problem. It's that constant nagging worry about who will complain this time, and resentment of the time and effort wasted on people who would have preferred NOT to have that feedback at all (including the very polite and gently negative comments). |
Here's how I look at this. Please PM me during the voting period on any comment I make. I take joy in pissing off those that have achieved photographic perfection! I am amused by those so closed minded that they think they are god's gift to the art of photography. I love it when I get the rare message thanking me for having pointed out something that the photographer didn't understand...
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01/02/2006 11:15:22 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Say you have 20 minutes to spare, and you decide to use that time on doing a few critiques..... wouldn't you feel better knowing your time will be spent on people who want and appreciate it, rather than on people who might resent it? |
There is already a check box for wanting a critique from the CC... perhaps making that an option where the newly implemented option of "view all photos without comments" is? It sounds like the CC gets a bit overwhelmed as it stands now, so maybe this could alleviate some of that. |
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01/02/2006 11:01:06 PM · #11 |
WOAH! Hold on, I am not saying ANYTHING negative toward anyone. It was meant as a joke. Where in there did I say ANYTHING about Beetle intimidating anyone, or even imply that beetle did anything wrong here?? Step back people.
I just found it funny, that's all. Not in a mean, sarcastic, or any other way.
I didn't turn anything around, I stated something that had already been stated. She said so herself. She is intimidated by the people making comments in the forums about being intimidated by their negative comments they are receiving.
I think some people need to realize that not ever stinking comment is meant as an attack toward them. This is the first time I think someone has offended ME in the forums. Wow. |
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01/02/2006 10:55:07 PM · #12 |
A final (from me) thought on this... a comment given should not be given "with strings attached," IMO. When you make a comment, don't expect that the photog will mark the comment helpful. If they do great, but it's not a given, and if they don't, so what?
Same with PMs. If you recieve a PM during or after a challenge that you'd rather not recieve, just don't respond. There is no requirement to engage in a discussion you would rather not engage in.
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01/02/2006 10:49:59 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by HBunch:
Your intimidated by comments made by people who are intimidated by comments received. That's different. |
Are you saying that the complainers are intimidated by the/MY/some/all comments they received?
That may be the case at times, but very often the feedback they complain about is simply (somewhat) negative, but not the least bit threatening or intimidating.
And hbunch, if you're saying I am intimidating everybody with my comments, then please actually go read them ..... I hardly think I am that scary, even when I AM being negative.
Message edited by author 2006-01-02 22:52:01. |
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01/02/2006 10:48:23 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by HBunch:
Originally posted by Beetle:
I understand that this solution isn't perfect, but I am so sick of being intimidated by the complaints in forums and in PM's.
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Your intimidated by comments made by people who are intimidated by comments received. That's different. |
You may need to re-read the totality of her submission and reserve your sarcasm to more deserving targets. |
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01/02/2006 10:40:08 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
I understand that this solution isn't perfect, but I am so sick of being intimidated by the complaints in forums and in PM's.
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Your intimidated by comments made by people who are intimidated by comments received. That's different. |
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01/02/2006 10:39:40 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Please, D&L, give people the choice of comments they want to receive, probably as a multi-option thing in our preferences.
Three levels would be good. |
Frankly, I think this is a great idea. I've been commenting on about 80% of my votes, and would just as soon not waste my time commenting where the photographer never marks any comments as helpful or never marks anything but accolades as positive. On the flip side, I welcome all comments, particularly negative ones (how else am I going to improve) and have received few comments on most submissions. I'd like to indicate that I want people to comment on mine!
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01/02/2006 10:39:17 PM · #17 |
| The best benefit resulting from implementation of this suggestion would be that people who welcome any and all criticism would receive more. Commenters would be less likely to waste their time on those who might not appreciate it as much. So far, on my pattern submission, I've got 9 comments from 269 votes. I appreciate ALL of the criticism that will help me improve my photography skills and would like to get more comments. |
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01/02/2006 10:34:59 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
2.) If you still get PMs that you'd rather not receive, consider commenting anonymously, that's what the "anonymous during voting" option is for. |
That would stop pm's during the voting stage, but those aren't even the biggest problem. It's that constant nagging worry about who will complain this time, and resentment of the time and effort wasted on people who would have preferred NOT to have that feedback at all (including the very polite and gently negative comments).
It would be so nice if we could concentrate our efforts to help on those who actually appreciate it. |
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01/02/2006 10:26:46 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
I understand that this solution isn't perfect, but I am so sick of being intimidated by the complaints in forums and in PM's.
So far I am still commenting (although many comments are rather more sugarcoated than I feel they should be) because I know some people desperately WANT feeback, but I often wonder why I keep doing this to myself ..... always worrying about who will be upset this time because I didn't tell them it was the best ever photo *sigh*
My suggestion could do with improvement, but perhaps it isn't such a bad idea in principle. Please consider giving some sort of choices - I hate upsetting the ones that would rather not know. |
I understand your concerns, it is unfortunate that some feel the need to "defend" their shots instead of carefully considering WHY someoe may have left a comment they disagree with. We learn more from our mistakes than our successes, but only if we can recognize them. Unflattering (as opposed to flat-out negative) comments help us to recognize them.
That said if you feel the need to sugar-coat comments because of concern for the PMs you would receive, I'd suggest a two-pronged approach:
1.) Instead of sugar-coating, tell it like it is, but do re-read to make sure you have phrased it in the most non-judgemental way possible. it's always possible to be kind, even when the photo has little merit.
2.) If you still get PMs that you'd rather not receive, consider commenting anonymously, that's what the "anonymous during voting" option is for.
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01/02/2006 09:35:43 PM · #20 |
Oh and re policing:
don't bother, make it more of a suggestion, most people would happily skip over entries that don't want feedback.
The very few nasties who would go against the stated preference just to bug people could easily be ignored.
Say you have 20 minutes to spare, and you decide to use that time on doing a few critiques..... wouldn't you feel better knowing your time will be spent on people who want and appreciate it, rather than on people who might resent it?
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01/02/2006 09:28:06 PM · #21 |
I understand that this solution isn't perfect, but I am so sick of being intimidated by the complaints in forums and in PM's.
So far I am still commenting (although many comments are rather more sugarcoated than I feel they should be) because I know some people desperately WANT feeback, but I often wonder why I keep doing this to myself ..... always worrying about who will be upset this time because I didn't tell them it was the best ever photo *sigh*
My suggestion could do with improvement, but perhaps it isn't such a bad idea in principle. Please consider giving some sort of choices - I hate upsetting the ones that would rather not know. |
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01/02/2006 09:12:42 PM · #22 |
| I just wish that people would simply grow skins! You are on a photo contest site that allows comments. You are gonna get 'negative' comments! You can take your ball and go home after that or you can take the 'negative' comments and use them to improve your work! If you desire no negative criticism of your work this is not the place for you... |
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01/02/2006 08:58:13 PM · #23 |
I think the only way for this to work would be All or None, no middle ground positives only.
It was menitoned earlier that it would be impossible to police. True. So, either the comment box is turned on on your entry or it's turned off.
Personally, I'm not sure how that would affect my voting on the image, if the photog was unable to take comments about it.
Message edited by author 2006-01-02 21:00:15.
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01/02/2006 08:51:36 PM · #24 |
I have to agree with Kirbic - "all positive" imho is a very bad idea.
First of all this is a educational site, if you want people to say nice things, show the photos to your mother, not to your peers.
Secondly to me a positive comment is one that helps me further an ability - not one that kisses my arse so "positive comments only" is subjective to the commentee
Thirdly, it begs to be abused. If i wanted to (not that i would, hypothetically only) really piss people off, i would leave nasty comments to people i thought were wasting the gift that is this site by refusing to get better.
Fourthly, policing it would be even MORE work for our volunteers at SC.
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01/02/2006 08:43:31 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
if you're getting a lot of endesired comments on a challenge submission after voting, it is possible to block further commenting. |
Out of curiosity, how do you go about this? |
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