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11/18/2005 01:21:24 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by "pidge":
I know security has been stepped up, but this stuff did not appear all of the sudden as you are implying. It has long been known that mass transit may be subject to an attack by somebody (not just Islamist extremists). It was only a matter of time before warnings would be extended to the IRT in NYC. Warnings to be suspicious of unattended bags have existed at airports long before 9-11. |
Yes, and most of that was due to hijackings, most of which were at the hands of Arab Islamic terrorists.
Originally posted by "pidge":
Everytime I went to the main judicial building on Centre Street I did. |
Yes, most court houses had metal detectors, etc. This was not to prevent bombings, etc. But rather due to the numerous cases of incidents of violence occurred in courts (usually one of the two following a) friend of criminal attempts rescue by force, b) family member of victim shoots perpetrator in order to enact justice). |
While I will not profess to be a scholar on aiport hijackings, were not most hijackings that may have resulted in metal detectors in airport security due to financial extortion and stuff involving Castro and Cuba? Feel free to correct me because I'm not a hundred percent sure.
As for court houses, you are correct. However, as I said, security measures such as metal detectors and ids were also being used in places such as public schools prior to 9-11.
I just have a problem with people who generalize things while venting hostilities. That's all.
MQuinn- glad you got your card back, and glad to know you know about your rights as a photographer now.
Message edited by author 2005-11-18 13:22:56. |
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11/18/2005 12:08:05 PM · #2 |
Whoa!
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by photodude:
Let me share what I know about Islam.
This past weekend I went to Washington DC. Every building and monument in the downtown area was lined with Islamic Barriers (thats my term for the highway barriers and large planters)in a futile attempt to keep us safe from car/truck bombs. When I went to park my car in a garage at a museum, it was searched for bombs, and when I went to retreive it, I had to go thru a metal detector to get back into the garage.
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
Here's what I know about Christianity...
Scientific thought used to be taught in our schools without teachers being taken to court.
Women used to be able to exercise their legal rights without fear of being killed by bombs.
I'm taking to point to it's extreme, but those are the result of "extreme Christianity". Are you ready to lay that at the feet of "mainstream" religion? I'm not. |
I dunno Im not gunna a let a few nutballs (terrorists) dictate anything I do. Honestly I could care less about religon, to each their own, don't try and push it on me. Do on to others as you would done to you. Personally speaking, if anyone decides its a great idea to run jet airliners into building full of people is in the name of ANYTHING has a screw loose and is a bad apple, I hope they burn in a jet fuel fire in hell. Human nature to be evil always suprises me. |
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11/18/2005 12:00:41 PM · #3 |
My main point is that we are pretty willing to throw wide nets out in the name of security and are willing that some innocents are caught in the net as long as those innocents are NOT US.
What if some of the 9/11 bombers were photographers? Would we be nearly as excited about dealing with all photographers in order to catch the few who may inflict some serious damage? (we know they are Nikon users anyway...)
This talk just reeks of the philosophy which led to the Japanese Internment Camps and McCarthyism. I hope we can all agree those were black marks on our nation's history. If you don't agree, I have nothing more to say. |
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11/18/2005 11:30:17 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by "GeneralE":
Perhaps if you (and most of the rest of us) had known a bit more about Islam before 9/11/01 we wouldn't be facing these crises now. |
Doubt it, as most of those enacting these terrors are rather ignorant themselves. Most people presumed that Islam was in general a peaceful religion. They have, by the acts perpetrated, altered their perceptions.
Originally posted by "pidge":
I know security has been stepped up, but this stuff did not appear all of the sudden as you are implying. It has long been known that mass transit may be subject to an attack by somebody (not just Islamist extremists). It was only a matter of time before warnings would be extended to the IRT in NYC. Warnings to be suspicious of unattended bags have existed at airports long before 9-11. |
Yes, and most of that was due to hijackings, most of which were at the hands of Arab Islamic terrorists.
Originally posted by "pidge":
Everytime I went to the main judicial building on Centre Street I did. |
Yes, most court houses had metal detectors, etc. This was not to prevent bombings, etc. But rather due to the numerous cases of incidents of violence occurred in courts (usually one of the two following a) friend of criminal attempts rescue by force, b) family member of victim shoots perpetrator in order to enact justice). |
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11/18/2005 09:44:07 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by photodude:
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
I seem to remember going through metal detectors and signing in before 9-11 in NYC. I know security has been stepped up, but this stuff did not appear all of the sudden as you are implying. It has long been known that mass transit may be subject to an attack by somebody (not just Islamist extremists). It was only a matter of time before warnings would be extended to the IRT in NYC. Warnings to be suspicious of unattended bags have existed at airports long before 9-11. While I think I can understand your anger towards Islamic extremists, I feel you are unjustified in blaming them for everything, as you seem to be doing. |
Prior to 9/11, with the exception of the WTC (which we all remember had been hit by the Terrorist Cult in 1993), I can think of no other office building in NYC that in order to enter you had to show ID, be photographed, or go through a metal detector. It was also legal to photograph bridges while driving or walking on them. There were no random bag searches in the subway. Trucks could go on the lower level of double deck bridges.
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Everytime I went to the main judicial building on Centre Street I did. Had to show id and always forgot to leave my pocket knife and scissors (if I had my bag with me) at home so always had to sign them over to the guards. In various places around the country, metal detetors have been standard for some high schools where violence had been a problem. The photographing is new as far as I know, but the metal detectors aren't. As for searching bags, it was inevitable as I said due to it being mass transit which has always been a possible target. Trucks going on the lower level of bridges... since I don't live there any more I wasn't aware of that, but wouldn't that help to alleviate traffic anyways? Don't slam me for that comment because I don't know and I hardly ever drove in the city. |
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11/18/2005 07:58:32 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by photodude:
And to DrAchoo... Personally I'm not a fan of the religious right here either. In some ways they want to impose a Christian version of an Islamic state here. BUT, with some very rare exceptions, they do not pose a threat to my personal safety and do not want to exterminate me for being an infidel. |
That's because you don't work at an abortion clinic or head an oil-rich South American country, right?
Message edited by author 2005-11-18 07:59:14. |
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11/18/2005 07:48:30 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by photodude:
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
I seem to remember going through metal detectors and signing in before 9-11 in NYC. I know security has been stepped up, but this stuff did not appear all of the sudden as you are implying. It has long been known that mass transit may be subject to an attack by somebody (not just Islamist extremists). It was only a matter of time before warnings would be extended to the IRT in NYC. Warnings to be suspicious of unattended bags have existed at airports long before 9-11. While I think I can understand your anger towards Islamic extremists, I feel you are unjustified in blaming them for everything, as you seem to be doing. |
Prior to 9/11, with the exception of the WTC (which we all remember had been hit by the Terrorist Cult in 1993), I can think of no other office building in NYC that in order to enter you had to show ID, be photographed, or go through a metal detector. It was also legal to photograph bridges while driving or walking on them. There were no random bag searches in the subway. Trucks could go on the lower level of double deck bridges.
In response to Glad2badad's point about hijacking the thread - it wasn't my intention to do that. I was just trying to make a point as to why our rights and freedoms are being trampled here in the USA. Prior to 9/11, did any local cop care that someone was taking pictures of airplanes? We can either accept this defensive posture (with all the inconvenience, cost and loss of freedom)- or do something about the actual problem.
And to DrAchoo... Personally I'm not a fan of the religious right here either. In some ways they want to impose a Christian version of an Islamic state here. BUT, with some very rare exceptions, they do not pose a threat to my personal safety and do not want to exterminate me for being an infidel.
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11/17/2005 10:17:04 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Let me share what I know about Islam.
This past weekend I went to Washington DC. Every building and monument in the downtown area was lined with Islamic Barriers (thats my term for the highway barriers and large planters)in a futile attempt to keep us safe from car/truck bombs. When I went to park my car in a garage at a museum, it was searched for bombs, and when I went to retreive it, I had to go thru a metal detector to get back into the garage.
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
Here's what I know about Christianity...
Scientific thought used to be taught in our schools without teachers being taken to court.
Women used to be able to exercise their legal rights without fear of being killed by bombs.
I'm taking to point to it's extreme, but those are the result of "extreme Christianity". Are you ready to lay that at the feet of "mainstream" religion? I'm not. |
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11/17/2005 10:12:27 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Could you name the Five Pillars of the Islamic Faith without Googling it? I couldn't. If you're getting your knowledge of mainstream Islam from Bill O'Reilly or CBN, I'd be a little worried... |
Probably not, but then again, few can quote the 10 Commandments either. Even less the Beautitudes. |
Agreed. But I'd trust few to be able to tell me what mainstream Christianity was "really" about either... |
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11/17/2005 10:08:17 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
I seem to remember going through metal detectors and signing in before 9-11 in NYC. I know security has been stepped up, but this stuff did not appear all of the sudden as you are implying. It has long been known that mass transit may be subject to an attack by somebody (not just Islamist extremists). It was only a matter of time before warnings would be extended to the IRT in NYC. Warnings to be suspicious of unattended bags have existed at airports long before 9-11. While I think I can understand your anger towards Islamic extremists, I feel you are unjustified in blaming them for everything, as you seem to be doing. |
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11/17/2005 10:06:06 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by frychikn:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
photodude -- Please remind me, to what country would you have deported Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nicholls?
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Please remind us, why would it have been necessary to deport McVeigh ANYWHRERE on 09-12-2001, since he had departed this world for that great big fertilizer truck in the sky about 3 months previously? That's the problem with knee-jerk replies; sometimes they happen too quickly, with insufficient study to the message being replied to. |
Who said anything about after any specific date? The statement I was responding to was a suggestion that we deport "potential terrorists" before they can act -- I was pointing out that such a strategy won't work when the terrorist is one of your native-born citizens. |
The message you replied to mentioned 09-12-2001. It advocated revoking the visas of citizens of non-specified 'terrorist nations'. Nothing in the message suggested or even hinted at deporting United States citizens. |
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11/17/2005 10:03:05 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by photodude:
That's what I know about Islam. |
Perhaps if you (and most of the rest of us) had known a bit more about Islam before 9/11/01 we wouldn't be facing these crises now.
Ignorance is not bliss -- ignorance is stupidity. |
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11/17/2005 09:55:55 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Could you name the Five Pillars of the Islamic Faith without Googling it? I couldn't. If you're getting your knowledge of mainstream Islam from Bill O'Reilly or CBN, I'd be a little worried... |
Probably not, but then again, few can quote the 10 Commandments either. Even less the Beautitudes. |
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11/17/2005 09:55:11 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by photodude:
It's not just the extremists. That viewpoint is supported in the mainstream. Why not, there have been few repercussions. 15 Saudi's kill 3,000 people and we attack Iraq - boy are we dumb. Oh yeah, I forgot, "the Saudi's are our friends" - that's what W says. Let's start by leveling the Mullah schools being run in Saudi Arabia. |
The average American doesn't have more than a passing aquaintance relationship with even one muslim. Could you name the Five Pillars of the Islamic Faith without Googling it? I couldn't. If you're getting your knowledge of mainstream Islam from Bill O'Reilly or CBN, I'd be a little worried... |
Let me share what I know about Islam.
This past weekend I went to Washington DC. Every building and monument in the downtown area was lined with Islamic Barriers (thats my term for the highway barriers and large planters)in a futile attempt to keep us safe from car/truck bombs. When I went to park my car in a garage at a museum, it was searched for bombs, and when I went to retreive it, I had to go thru a metal detector to get back into the garage.
Today I was in NY City. We were all warned on the subway to be alert for suspicious things - "if you see something, say something" it goes. Like thats really going to stop determined suicide bombers. To get into office buildings for routine meetings, you have to sign in, be photographed and in some cases go thru metal detectors and put your belongings through xray machines.
NONE OF THIS EXISTED BEFORE 9/11
That's what I know about Islam. |
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11/17/2005 09:47:09 PM · #15 |
I'm with you Deannda. I put this thread on 'Watch' to see the outcome of the confiscated card and it's been totally derailed.
Thanks photodude. BTW, just because it's in Rant doesn't mean it needs to be hijacked. Geez.
...off to follow Deannda's lead and hit 'Ignore'.
MQuinn, I hope that all works out well and you start a new thread to let us know the outcome. Thanks.
Originally posted by photodude:
...So get off the politically correct soapbox. They are the enemy and we need to start thinking that way. And BTW, this is in Rant. |
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11/17/2005 09:42:26 PM · #16 |
wow, just checked in to see if MQuinn is getting his card back, I see he is, "YEAH!" and following up on his rights with a lawyer from what I understand, "DOUBLE YEAH!"
Then I read how this thread has totally jumped the track, traveled across the nation and picked up a steamer to nowhere! YIKES!
Deannda
Putting this one ignore now, later all! |
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11/17/2005 09:22:32 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by photodude:
It's not just the extremists. That viewpoint is supported in the mainstream. Why not, there have been few repercussions. 15 Saudi's kill 3,000 people and we attack Iraq - boy are we dumb. Oh yeah, I forgot, "the Saudi's are our friends" - that's what W says. Let's start by leveling the Mullah schools being run in Saudi Arabia. |
Kill the kids? Are you serious? I know education starts young, but I don't think that justifies killing all kids, as it seems you are implying |
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11/17/2005 09:09:45 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by photodude:
It's not just the extremists. That viewpoint is supported in the mainstream. Why not, there have been few repercussions. 15 Saudi's kill 3,000 people and we attack Iraq - boy are we dumb. Oh yeah, I forgot, "the Saudi's are our friends" - that's what W says. Let's start by leveling the Mullah schools being run in Saudi Arabia. |
The average American doesn't have more than a passing aquaintance relationship with even one muslim. Could you name the Five Pillars of the Islamic Faith without Googling it? I couldn't. If you're getting your knowledge of mainstream Islam from Bill O'Reilly or CBN, I'd be a little worried... |
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11/17/2005 08:54:08 PM · #19 |
| It's not just the extremists. That viewpoint is supported in the mainstream. Why not, there have been few repercussions. 15 Saudi's kill 3,000 people and we attack Iraq - boy are we dumb. Oh yeah, I forgot, "the Saudi's are our friends" - that's what W says. Let's start by leveling the Mullah schools being run in Saudi Arabia. |
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11/17/2005 08:50:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
If you're going to refer to a group of people at least refer to them correctly. It's Islamic Fundamentalists, not Islamics |
If you're going to refer to a group of people at least refer to them correctly. It's Islamic Extremist, not Islamic Fundamentalists.
Fundamentalist just means a strong adherance to the basic principles. Think "Orthodox Jew". There are numerous muslim fundamentalists that are not terrorists. The actions of the terrorists are not "fundamental" beliefs of Islam. (If they are, then everyone would be right to condemn all muslims.) |
Oops. Sorry for that. Thanks for the correction.
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11/17/2005 08:48:38 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
If you're going to refer to a group of people at least refer to them correctly. It's Islamic Fundamentalists, not Islamics |
If you're going to refer to a group of people at least refer to them correctly. It's Islamic Extremist, not Islamic Fundamentalists.
Fundamentalist just means a strong adherance to the basic principles. Think "Orthodox Jew". There are numerous muslim fundamentalists that are not terrorists. The actions of the terrorists are not "fundamental" beliefs of Islam. (If they are, then everyone would be right to condemn all muslims.)
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ah, I didn't realize Islam had their own country to commit acts "outside of"...would that be Islamia? Islamistan? Muslimanada? |
Guess what, the extremist Muslims are scattered throughout and they do view the existance of the "Islamic Nation". In fact, they view any land or territory that has been under Muslim control to be part of the Islamic nation.
If you don't understand that - than you really are missing the entire issue at hand. This extremists are endeavoring to establish the Islamic Nation throughout the entire world.
Message edited by author 2005-11-17 20:53:06. |
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11/17/2005 08:31:24 PM · #22 |
| No, it's just a terrorist cult. Become a martyr and get your 40 virgins. Kill the infidels. |
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11/17/2005 08:25:01 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by photodude:
I dont recall Shining Path, South American Communitst Geurillas or Basque Seperatists commiting terrorist acts in other countries.
The Islamics on the other hand have been trotting around the globe for 35 years committing these acts. Enough is enough. |
Ah, I didn't realize Islam had their own country to commit acts "outside of"...would that be Islamia? Islamistan? Muslimanada? |
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11/17/2005 08:24:06 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by photodude:
I dont recall Shining Path, South American Communitst Geurillas or Basque Seperatists commiting terrorist acts in other countries.
The Islamics on the other hand have been trotting around the globe for 35 years committing these acts. Enough is enough. |
If you're going to refer to a group of people at least refer to them correctly. It's Islamic Fundamentalists, not Islamics. Probably just a slip of the finger in trying to get your message across as fast as possible.
Carry on.
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11/17/2005 08:19:13 PM · #25 |
I dont recall Shining Path, South American Communitst Geurillas or Basque Seperatists commiting terrorist acts in other countries.
The Islamics on the other hand have been trotting around the globe for 35 years committing these acts. Enough is enough. |
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