post challenge results discussion.

11/02/2005 06:19:04 PM · #1

I was thinking about the format I might use, should I decide to write a post-challenge critiques (and, to be honest, some of this is about me learning how to critique)

Something like;

- Comments on 1st, 2nd, 3rd

- Comments on my entry, if I entered (NOT 'why didn't it do better?', but 'what I should have done better'). What I learned from the challenge.

- Pick one underrated shot and comment on it (for example, one I scored 10 but which didn't appear in top ten)

And I didn't get slammed for my comments on the 'grain' winners... even after Joey read them. Perhaps I should have made them more controversial? (just kidding!)

Don't know what I was worried about...!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/02/2005 05:17:30 PM · #2

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

jhonan, I love the idea. I wonder if you could get a SC member to agree to moderate the thread. You could list the thread as "Moderated" so people would be aware that off-topic posts (well, look at my picture...) would be deleted.

All the threads are "Moderated." : )

Most, for example the "Mentorship" threads, are successfully self-moderated if you explain the purpose and rules at the beginning.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/02/2005 05:02:19 PM · #3

olddj

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG Macro for Canon

11/02/2005 02:42:47 PM · #4

Hey, want another one to join "The first and only amatuer critique club"? LOL I am all for it, as some of you know, I do leave comments, and that can and does get me into scrapes sometimes. Does bother me a little, but I still feel we should, and if the score is a one or two, I think it should be a MUST LEAVE comment situation. My opinions or comments may not always be popular (LOL - ROFL) but I do honestly feel if this is to be a learning site, comments HAVE to be left, whenever you see something that could be improved, even just a little, it is NOT that difficult to say it in a comment. Will it always be recieved with open minds? ABSOLUTELY not, but hopefully the bad name calling/personal attacks will lessen with more comments.

Personally, I would love any comment, especially what can be improved! IE my light on white, get a chance, look at my pre and post scoring comments, then tell me how I am supposed to improve the shot! LOL More of figure on right, more figure on left, more of both??? LOL Background is as pure white as you can get and figurine is a light cream, cannot get more light on white, in my opinion anyway, so why 40 votes under 4?? NO comments from any of those, at least do not think so.

That to me is the POINT, let someone know what you did not like, even if it is the picture itself, just something like - Sorry, this picture is not in my taste - or something equally simple, at least it gives the photographer an idea of why the low votes!!! Hope this did not come across as another rant, truly is not, but if there is any way I can help make this a more truly learning site, I will be GLAD to participate!!!

Jacque

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

11/02/2005 02:08:09 PM · #5

As I was re-typing my 'grain' comments I realised just how difficult it is to critique the winners! - Very difficult to find technical issues, so you're left commenting on the more artistic and emotive aspects.

Overall a great exercise to try out. I've got to do it more often, I found it far more valuable to me personally than just typing the usual 'great shot' comments against the ribbon winners.

Now that I've done one, I'll find it a bit easier in future. Hopefully.

mesmeraj

11/02/2005 01:45:57 PM · #6

Originally posted by livitup:

it takes less than a page to turn into name calling, when all the original poster really meant was "how could I have done this better?".

Right. And thats what bothers me. Rikkis thread today started out as a perfectly vailid discussion, and a handful of posts later the "whine" and "complain" words pop up. Ditto the button thread.

Safety in numbers for sure Bear!

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/02/2005 01:40:32 PM · #7

Originally posted by livitup:

Originally posted by jhonan:
You picked me up wrong on that post, sorry - I'm not complaining about these threads, I was just saying that there aren't any threads discussing the winners. I agree with everything you've said above.

Gotcha, and sorry about that. However, it seems like without fail, whenever someone posts their own photo to a thread and asks "why didn't this do better," it takes less than a page to turn into name calling, when all the original poster really meant was "how could I have done this better?".

Yup, happens almost every time. It's sort of sad, isn't it?

R.

livitup

Nikon D70

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

11/02/2005 01:39:20 PM · #8

Originally posted by jhonan:

You picked me up wrong on that post, sorry - I'm not complaining about these threads, I was just saying that there aren't any threads discussing the winners. I agree with everything you've said above.

Gotcha, and sorry about that. However, it seems like without fail, whenever someone posts their own photo to a thread and asks "why didn't this do better," it takes less than a page to turn into name calling, when all the original poster really meant was "how could I have done this better?".

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/02/2005 01:39:03 PM · #9

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

Is there a handful of people that would like to start a post challenge disscussion with me?

I'm up for that, as long as i'm not the only one out on a limb; there's safety in numbers :-) Jhonan actually took the initiative a moment ago over in "grain" results...

R.

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/02/2005 01:37:41 PM · #10

I think civil discussions can be had (for the mostpart) if they are brought about in the proper way. People who aren't sure why they placed so low frequently ask for more feedback and are generally given it. But it seems like most discussions about the ribbon winners are either about how dumb, blind, uncreative, in the box and completely unable to see a unique creation the voters are or about the obvious conspiracy in which some band of voters is voting their friends to the top, someone with 32,000 accounts is voting every other photo down, or everyone can identify the previous winners and are voting them high so that they can say they know how to identify a winner. I�m not sure that I�ve seen a genuine discussion started about ribbon winners. Perhaps I�ve just missed it.

11/02/2005 01:34:56 PM · #11

Originally posted by livitup:

Originally posted by jhonan:
They're not discussing the winners.

'Challenge Results' is full of 'underrated' and 'why didn't I score higher' threads.

Is there something wrong with that?

You picked me up wrong on that post, sorry - I'm not complaining about these threads, I was just saying that there aren't any threads discussing the winners. I agree with everything you've said above.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

11/02/2005 01:33:36 PM · #12

Okay, here we go...

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=297184

Have fun! :)

Message edited by author 2005-11-02 13:33:44.

livitup

Nikon D70

11/02/2005 01:26:58 PM · #13

Originally posted by jhonan:

They're not discussing the winners.

'Challenge Results' is full of 'underrated' and 'why didn't I score higher' threads.

Is there something wrong with that?

We all claim to be here to learn. However, it seems like everyone expects us to learn by looking at the challenge winners and then emulating the components that made them win.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to post your own photo into a thread and ask why it didn't do better. Isn't it possible the person just wants to know how to improve and isn't bitching about the outcome?

I've been really exicted about a few of my entries that ended up scoring much lower than I expected. In fact for Light on White my wife (who also has an account here) complained all week long that my entry was much better than hers. The result? I scored a 4.9 while she scored more than a point higher. Of my five comments, only one is a critique, the rest give my photo praise.

Wouldn't it be great if I could ask the general population of the site for a more detailed critique without being branded a "score whiner?"

Message edited by author 2005-11-02 13:27:50.

mesmeraj

11/02/2005 01:24:43 PM · #14

Originally posted by azoychka:

Of all the photo's here it would seem reasonable that the ribbon winners would be discussed the most.

No it doesn't. Every photo in the challenge has merit. Every photo in the challenge has elements we can learn from. You are not staying on topic to this thread. If you want to discuss ribbon winners, be my guest to start a thread on it. Cheers.

mesmeraj

11/02/2005 01:22:30 PM · #15

i dont think the results (as in scores or ribbons) themselves are the important element of proposed discussion groups. But the strength and weekness of the image that resulted in those scores.
(naturally the discussion would have to be post results because of the anonymity thing)
Perhaps if we let go of the "should have ribboned" mentaily, instead discussing the technical, emotive, reasoning etc behind ANY of the images presented in the challenge, the sour grapes of which bear refers to would start tasting a little sweeter.

Is there a handful of people that would like to start a post challenge disscussion with me?

11/02/2005 01:19:22 PM · #16

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Or do you mean you just want "other people" to discuss the ribbon-winners?

Of all the photo's here it would seem reasonable that the ribbon winners would be discussed the most. Have they not 'earned' that right? Are they not the best? Can we not learn from their accomplishment?

but they are not.....how strange.....

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/02/2005 01:12:22 PM · #17

Originally posted by azoychka:

Originally posted by jhonan:
They're not discussing the winners.

'Challenge Results' is full of 'underrated' and 'why didn't I score higher' threads.

Are there forums discussing ribboner winners General?

The question originally posed by this thread (look at the title) is why there was no discussion of the challenge results, not specifically of the ribbon-winners.

Those threads are discussing the results, and you are free to post a comment concerning a ribbon-winner in either or both -- I would find that perfectly appropriate.

Or do you mean you just want "other people" to discuss the ribbon-winners?

11/02/2005 01:09:18 PM · #18

Originally posted by glad2badad:

You could write one I'm quite sure...

Originally posted by azoychka:
I would like to see that critique.

jhonan did and he should not need the 'guts' to post it....

11/02/2005 01:07:36 PM · #19

Originally posted by jhonan:

They're not discussing the winners.

'Challenge Results' is full of 'underrated' and 'why didn't I score higher' threads.

Are there forums discussing ribboner winners General?

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

11/02/2005 01:06:28 PM · #20

You could write one I'm quite sure...

Originally posted by azoychka:

I would like to see that critique.

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

11/02/2005 01:04:43 PM · #21

It's all in how a critique is presented. Same as leaving comments on portfolio or challenge entry images. Use a little tact. State verified reasons for/against...don't just say "it sucks" or something similar...

Think about how you would feel if someone left what you are about to say on one of your images. You know, the old "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" (excuse me if I misphrased that).

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jhonan:
Besides, who's brave enough to critique the epitome of perfection?

:-p

You have a photo you want me to comment on?

Yesterday I wrote up a critique of the three winners in 'grain' - I was about to post it in 'Challenge Results' but had second thoughts. Mainly for the reasons given by Robert.

Yea, I know, I've got no guts.

11/02/2005 01:04:02 PM · #22

They're not discussing the winners.

'Challenge Results' is full of 'underrated' and 'why didn't I score higher' threads.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/02/2005 01:02:16 PM · #23

What do you all consider these threads?

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=298049

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=298192

11/02/2005 01:00:27 PM · #24

Originally posted by jhonan:

I would like to see that critique.

Message edited by author 2005-11-02 13:00:59.