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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Honesty? Do U really WANT it?
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08/16/2005 09:19:43 PM · #1
To me, feedback is the primary focus of my membership here. I want it all - honest, brutal, constructive, off-the-wall, off-topic, personal, emotional, etc. IMHO, there is no comment I receive that is not helpful in some form or fashion. I also try my very best to provide commentary (albeit personal and from my own somewhat inexperienced point of view) on every plea for feedback I see. (BTW: I left you a comment SDW65!)

I think it's not only our right, but out responsibility to provide our own twisted views to those of us asking for opinions. It's like the saying, just like a**holes, everybody has one, so why not share it?!? ;-)

At least for my own part, that's why I'm here - to get feedback on my work. I don't care if you've never taken a photograph in your life or if you are a successful photographer by profession. Your opinion matters. That's the only way that I can get better - that and by providing my own points of view to those who want to receive. It's amazing how much you can learn by commenting yourself... Try it...
08/16/2005 08:50:52 PM · #2
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Message edited by author 2005-08-17 10:51:34.
08/16/2005 08:26:47 PM · #3
i just dont like commenting :-/
08/16/2005 08:24:27 PM · #4
Originally posted by mandyturner:

I think that there are two reasons why voters do not comment.
1. Because of a time issue.
2. Because they don't want to upset someone because they want to be honest but can't find anything contructive to say.

What I want to know is, if I am COMPLETELY HONEST, will people get upset? How thick skinned is everyone? I have very little knowledge of photography compared to the majority of members here. I know what I think is a good photo. And if I think that your photo is terrible, so you really want to read that? How can I be honest about my opinions without being negative? If someone could help me with that, I would leave more comments.


I welcome honest feedback on any of my work.

Feel free to practice on anything in my portfolio. If you like, I'll give you feedback on your comments. If you're interested, leave some comments on any photos you choose and PM me for the feedback.

-Terry
08/16/2005 07:34:31 PM · #5
My method is this, while voting if my cat Bruce comes up to me then I'll comment on that photo. If he stops and looks at the screen, then I give it a good positive comment. If he turns and walks away, then I slam it! I trust Bruce's judgement, he has never let me down, that I know of.

...on a sidenote: Bruce tends to normally think highly of abstracts.
08/16/2005 06:50:31 PM · #6
I tend to vote higher than the average (meaning I do not recall ever giving a 1, 2 or 3)however, I do not think I have ever given a 10.

Typically photos that strike me as average get 5's or 6's, the ones I really like get 8's and the ones that are better than average but without the impact of an 8 get a 7. 9's are very special to me and I give them very sparingly, almost always with comments. In the Rain challenge I gave 1 nine and I believe 19 eights.

I think that if a person is trying to take a photograph of the challenge subject then they should be given at respectable score for their attempt. Likewise, I believe a 10 is an absolutely perfect photograph, which I have yet to see. So bassically I use a 5 point system (5-9) and my score is my comment.

Sometimes however, I am so moved by a photograph either positively or negatively, that a comment is warranted. In those cases, I attempt to be polite yet straight.

Message edited by author 2005-08-16 18:51:58.
08/16/2005 05:21:30 PM · #7
You can comment on my photos, I take the Good and the Bad all the same.

Ty
08/16/2005 05:20:12 PM · #8
Originally posted by lepidus:

Also, this is hard for me because I'm not the best photographer. So how can I criticize someone else's work when mine needs help?

As the cliché goes, "I may not know much about art, but I know what I like!"

Just say what you like and don't like, and why, that's all there is to it.
08/16/2005 05:16:39 PM · #9
Originally posted by lepidus:

Also, this is hard for me because I'm not the best photographer. So how can I criticize someone else's work when mine needs help?


If your wife told you your tie was too bright (or whatever) would you ignore her because she never wore ties?
08/16/2005 05:09:20 PM · #10
The way I see it, is that I'm here to learn. I would like to see the comments that can make it better. So as some mentioned start out saying something nice and then something along the lines of, "what I would fix" or "maybe next time, try this ..." Stuff like that. I would never leave a negative comment like, "This sucks, don't quit your day job." I always try to be helpful.

Also, this is hard for me because I'm not the best photographer. So how can I criticize someone else's work when mine needs help?
08/16/2005 05:02:38 PM · #11
Good questions. IMHO, the variable here is not you but the person receiving the comment. Whether you are a pro or not, people prone to getting upset at comments they receive are gonna get upset bc that's what they do.

Not sure that you can do much about it other than finding the most diplomatic & constructive way of doling out your feedback.

Good luck & comment on regardless of what folks say to you. You have the right to your opinion.
08/16/2005 04:59:14 PM · #12
And you have a point there. Nevermind my last statement as I'm a tad frustrated that I'm getting a couple just sort of bizarre comments right now.
08/16/2005 04:41:51 PM · #13
Originally posted by marmalade1121:

Then to submit commentary under the guise of "hidden during voting" is frustrating on my end because you cannot exactly explain what is going on within the pic.


Nor should you while voting is still in progress.
08/16/2005 04:31:55 PM · #14
My only gripe is that people don't seem to really look at a photo before submitting a knee jerk reaction in the comments section. Then to submit commentary under the guise of "hidden during voting" is frustrating on my end because you cannot exactly explain what is going on within the pic.

<-- feeling the hurt now

And the pic is not at all spooky, ffs. :-D
08/16/2005 04:27:34 PM · #15
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I absolutely don't care how expert or novice the voter is, I'm interested in whatever he/she has to say, however good or bad!!!!!

Oh yeah, I don't care if the comment is constructive or not, either. I'm happy with "Sux" or "Cool", which is better than nothing for pete's sake!!!!


Put me in this camp as well. To me the gut reaction comments are equally as valuable as the thoughtful ones and nobody is obligated to spend any time trying to find ways I could have done it better, but that is always appreciated as well. I don't even understand how you could take a comment personally on a challenge entry when the commenter doesn't even know who you are.

A rating scale (1-3 or 1-5) would be great for comments! It's been brought up in the past and I'm not sure why it isn't done. We rate photos, tutorials are rated, book and movie review siteshave ratings for reviews. Seems like if my comment rating was below average, I would want to improve. As it is, I have rarely NOT marked a comment as "helpful" and one of them was "I really don't know what to say. So I won't say anything." I even struggled over whether I should mark it as helpful and ultimately found absolutely nothing of value in it, though I tried. :)
08/16/2005 04:21:40 PM · #16
I think that if you don't comment on as many images as you possibly can, that you aren't getting as much out of this site as you possibly can. That boils it down to me, plain and simple. I've learned more on this site by commenting on other's photos and receiving comments on my own photos than by any other means I've attempted in photography.

There are some very good examples by which to model your comments too (so as to put them in a positive light and yet still get your constructive criticisms across). Some of these excellent commenters are 1) anyone on Site Council, 2) graphicfunk, 3) SDW65, and 4) jutilda. Granted there are MANY more excellent examples of successfully constructive feedback givers out there, but these are the ones that were most prominent in my mind at the moment.

I would encourage EVERY person on this site who wants to improve their photography to spend time commenting on others' shots. Until you actually do it, there's no way to really convey how much you learn.

Just my 2 cents...
08/16/2005 03:49:39 PM · #17
Originally posted by mandyturner:

I think that there are two reasons why voters do not comment.
1. Because of a time issue.
2. Because they don't want to upset someone because they want to be honest but can't find anything contructive to say.

What I want to know is, if I am COMPLETELY HONEST, will people get upset? How thick skinned is everyone? I have very little knowledge of photography compared to the majority of members here. I know what I think is a good photo. And if I think that your photo is terrible, so you really want to read that? How can I be honest about my opinions without being negative? If someone could help me with that, I would leave more comments.


So long as you're honest I don't really see that there is any problem with giving constructive feedback. To soften negative feedback use the 'shit sandwich', find two positive things to say and wrap them around the negative. Although not always easy it makes the negatives much less painful. :) Also try not to 'pussyfoot' or 'clobber' with your words.

As to how much relative knowledge of photography anyone has, I don't think a person needs years of photography experience to decide if they like a picture or not.. Experience may help if there are technical issues with a picture, but if you can see them you have that knowledge so it shouldn't be a problem.

At the end of the day I think it comes down to how thick skinned the person making the comments is rather than the person recieving them, and if they can put up with the occasional rant from someone who takes issue with the (honest) comment they made..

BTW, I'm very think skinned, feel free to comment away ;)

edit: Forgot to say that IMHO commenting, and the depth with which you scruitinise other peoples photograhs to make good comments, is one of the best ways of learning.

Message edited by author 2005-08-16 16:18:02.
08/16/2005 02:33:03 PM · #18
I absolutely don't care how expert or novice the voter is, I'm interested in whatever he/she has to say, however good or bad!!!!!

Oh yeah, I don't care if the comment is constructive or not, either. I'm happy with "Sux" or "Cool", which is better than nothing for pete's sake!!!!

Message edited by author 2005-08-16 14:36:49.
08/16/2005 02:18:39 PM · #19
Originally posted by Jacko:

Reason 3 - I'm on DPC burn out. I've been here 3 years and can't get myself to vote or comment anymore. I suppose having two babies at home doesn't help the time side of it either. Maybe I need a new lens or two :D


I'm with Jacko, although I've only been here just over a year (actively). I can't even vote with any seriousness anymore.. if I try, I find myself giving outrageous scores simply to try and keep myself interested, so I don't bother.

I still comment, however, just not on challenge entries much, and I'll generally leave the comment to a shot I find personally very interesting or with something I love, but feel could use some minor tweaking, so I'll suggest some things.

I dunno.. we all have to find our place here, and I think I've found mine. As to the original intent of the thread, I'm always honest, but I try and complement that honesty with a little tact, a little sensitivity, and a reinforcement that everything I say is very subjective and is only one opinion out of many.
08/16/2005 02:12:24 PM · #20
Reason 3 - I'm on DPC burn out. I've been here 3 years and can't get myself to vote or comment anymore. I suppose having two babies at home doesn't help the time side of it either. Maybe I need a new lens or two :D


08/16/2005 02:07:26 PM · #21
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Mandy,

If you want to practice feel free to choose any of my images to comment on. I can provide feedback on your feedback if that helps.

Colette


Ditto
08/16/2005 01:20:43 PM · #22
Mandy,

If you want to practice feel free to choose any of my images to comment on. I can provide feedback on your feedback if that helps.

Colette
08/16/2005 01:15:44 PM · #23
9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback
08/16/2005 01:15:14 PM · #24
Originally posted by mandyturner:

I think that there are two reasons why voters do not comment.
1. Because of a time issue.
2. Because they don't want to upset someone because they want to be honest but can't find anything contructive to say.

What I want to know is, if I am COMPLETELY HONEST, will people get upset? How thick skinned is everyone? I have very little knowledge of photography compared to the majority of members here. I know what I think is a good photo. And if I think that your photo is terrible, so you really want to read that? How can I be honest about my opinions without being negative? If someone could help me with that, I would leave more comments.


There is a difference between criticism and constructive criticism. The former is much easier to do than the latter.

To lean towards constructive try determining what works in the image for you and what doesn't. Vague statements like "the image is terrible" or "nice shot" don't really tell the photographer anything.

Trying to figure out what does and doesn't work for you in someone else's image will actually help you in your own photography. Getting technical is not necessary. Even when trying to suggest changes that could improve a photo doesn't need to be technical. It could just be the placement of the main subject or the crop or where the focus is.

08/16/2005 01:10:05 PM · #25
Mandy,

Take it from someone who has a pretty thin filter between his brain, mouth and fingers. I usually re-type my comments on photos that I'm really not into. If I can't really find anything constructive to say to the artist then I just bag it. I am new to this site as well but I figure I shouldn't make any enemies. That would just seem to go against what we are trying to do here. JMHO.

NaldSLC


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