Calling on anyone who knows how to code

07/09/2005 01:00:59 AM · #1

I may use it now & then, but I'm done working on it, but I do have a plan to build one for some automated forum posting! ;-)

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/09/2005 12:36:55 AM · #2

Glad I could help... if I have some free time this weekend I'll see what I can do about making it work in IE.

jrtodd

Nikon D850

07/08/2005 10:17:24 PM · #3

I changed the comments around some, maybe some of you will see them. I think for me anyway this should help. It already forces me to spend me time viewing the entry.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

07/08/2005 10:07:01 PM · #4

Originally posted by jrtodd:

kpriest and cpickett, nice programs both of them. Thanks for posting the code. I am trying out cpicketts version in circle, but I can already hear it coming from the "canned comments". It's a good challenge to try it on 500+ entries and all. I do find myself voting a little higher than normal.

Well put, thanks to both kpriest and cpickett, nice work. My voting is a little higher but it is consistent. I think consistency is the best feature here.

jrtodd

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/08/2005 09:34:00 PM · #5

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

07/08/2005 09:08:47 PM · #6

Thanks everyone for the programs. A big help. I really like cpickett
version with the output text box. I can't seem to save it to file as frames so I just bring up two windows. Works great in Firefox.

07/08/2005 08:53:47 PM · #7

Originally posted by deapee:

Mark everything at the highest...that gives the score of a 9...now move meets challenge to AVG...that makes it a 10. Something's wrong.

Can't reproduce what you are saying. With Auto-calc checked, mark all as 10, overall=10, change Challenge to 5, overall = 9.

If you turn auto-calc off, the overall score has to be manually selected by you based on however you feel like weighting it (JUST LIKE NOT USING THE VOTING TOOL).

Regarding stdavidson's post - I would agree that these tools if we HAD to use them, would not work, BUT if I WANT to use it because it helps me put more detail into my vote than just clicking the number, then I have that option JUST AS I have the option to vote anything and everything a 1 if I think it doesn't meet my idea of the challenge or if it just doesn't appeal to me or if I don't like the subject matter. This tool does not change the subjectivity of the vote at all because it can be used any way you want.

As I have mentioned and argued about when I first released it, it DOESN'T MATTER what tool, method, system, etc. you use - if you leave any evidence of your opinion in the comments box that the recipient does not agree with, you will frequently get ranted about in the forums or PM'd about it.

I have always made the simple case that if I use the tool, the challenge entries are more likely to get more detail about my opinion. The alternative is for me to simply click on one of those little numbers, remain anonymous and never have to take any crap for it.

So you are right in saying that the tools fail - but not because they become objective - but because the more detail, the more there is to whine about.

...now what is that line from Godfather III... :)

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 20:59:01.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

07/08/2005 08:02:34 PM · #8

Voting tools have been suggested, built, tried and fallen into disuse here before. People try them out only to discover they don't work for them.

The two main reasons they don't work are:
1-Checkbox criteria and algorythm disagreement
2-Ease of use

Checkbox criteria and algorythm disagreement:
We presuppose that a complete and accurate set of criteria could be defined and agreed on. It means we know what the categories are. We don't. It further presupposes that algorythms for determining score could be uniquely defined and that weighting factors for each criteria could be uniquely defined. It has to be defined in objective terms to be programmable. Each individual has their own criteria. No single set of criteria will fully satisfy voters.

How do you define the weighting factor for "personal appeal" balanced against all the other criteria when an individual wants it to outweigh everything else for one particular image, but not for another? Do you think there would ever be agreement between the "meet the challenge" crowd who would have meeting the challenge makeup half the score and those who would give it the same weight factor as composition? Never happen. Do you think there could even be total agreement on what the actual criteria should be and how each should be weighted? Won't happen.

The art of photography is SUBJECTIVE and not objective. The current voting system supports subjective voting. Trying to make it objective has already previously failed.

Ease of Use:
Even if new agreeable voting criteria were built into the application it would require more effort on the voter's part to use. Pure and simple, if something requires more effort it will not be used.

Those of you who say the benefit outweighs the additional effort just don't understand human nature. Yes, people will expend more effort to directly help themselves, but this doesn't. It is setup to help others. That being the situation... More effort=fewer voters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a lot more to voting than just banging out a little dialog box code.

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

07/08/2005 06:28:32 PM · #9

Originally posted by deapee:

Mark everything at the highest...that gives the score of a 9...now move meets challenge to AVG...that makes it a 10. Something's wrong.

See my post below.... it has to do with the script and reading the old value vs. the new value on radio buttons.

deapee

Kodak V803

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/08/2005 06:11:53 PM · #10

Mark everything at the highest...that gives the score of a 9...now move meets challenge to AVG...that makes it a 10. Something's wrong.

07/08/2005 05:35:22 PM · #11

Still Works:

Originally posted by Calculated Overall Score:

Composition: 8, Well thought out
Technical: 10, Spot on!
Appeal: 9, Dazzling!
Challenge: 1, A square does not a circle make!
Overall Calculated Average Score: 7, Because I *calculated* the overall score, you got a 7 even though your photo clearly does not meet the challenge.

Originally posted by Weighted Overall Score (arbitrary):

Composition: 8, Well thought out
Technical: 10, Spot on!
Appeal: 9, Dazzling!
Challenge: 1, A square does not a circle make!
Overall Score: 2, (weighted)

Originally posted by Weighted Overall Score (arbitrary) comments only:

Composition: Well thought out
Technical: Spot on!
Appeal: Dazzling!
Challenge: A square does not a circle make!
Overall Comments: (weighted) Doesn't fit the challenge.

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

07/08/2005 05:34:29 PM · #12

Wow kpriest, that is a lot more advanced than mine, I see no reason anyone needs to look any farther...

sdranz: Yeah, above I posted that it's funky in IE... If the flash version doesn't come about, I'll see if I can fix it. But I'm by no means a javascript wizard. I like Perl better :)

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 17:35:30.

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

07/08/2005 05:27:32 PM · #13

Just to report a bug with ie6: the displayed score is one behind - when you change the radio button, the calculated score reflects the old value, not the new one. Maybe you have already fixed it...

Originally posted by cpickett:

aboutimage: That is kind of what I was thinking, but I'll wait and see what SDW65 says.

zmaerd: RebAl said he would work on one tonight, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

And while I had the coding bug, here it is in frames, with DPC... Should be easier for voting...

//fragme.org/voteframe.html

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

07/08/2005 05:25:10 PM · #14

Originally posted by skiprow:

kpriest has one already done. there's a thread from somewhere back around the yellow challenge about automated voting or something like that. you might want to pm him.

I enhanced one that EddyG did before my time. Here's the thread: //www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=88458#1055587

Separate browser window version:
//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/dpc_voter.htm

Standard Frames version:
//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/dpc_vote_frameset.htm

Also created a vertical frame version after that:
//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/dpc_vote_vert_frameset.htm

WARNING - if you read through that thread and others like it, you will find that some people get mad at what they think is a "canned" comment. I have discovered after using the tool for awhile that because you are breaking down the overall score into 4 or 5 categories, the people who complain about an individual comment on their entry, now have 4 or 5 different complaints to make or are 4 or 5 times more likely to complain about your comments.

Feel free to use any of them at your own risk.

If anyone wants the source code to create their own version, it can be downloaded here:
Horizontal Layout: //www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/DPC_Tools/DPCVoterToolHoriz.zip

Vertical:
//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/DPC_Tools/DPCVoterToolVert.zip

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

07/08/2005 05:21:37 PM · #15

I wrote a little app a while ago to do commenting.. It could be adapted for scoring too.

//www.calcaria.net/comment-o-matic.gif

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/08/2005 05:21:09 PM · #16

zmaerd

Canon EOS-10D

07/08/2005 05:19:31 PM · #17

Cool idea, anybody came up with a flash version yet?

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/08/2005 05:09:26 PM · #18

Very nice! It's now a favorite. I'll try using it, I have quite a few more circle pics to score.

--Edit:
Tried using it to score a few pics already. Noticed it forces me to think a little harder about WHY I'm giving a particular score.

I will say that it seems that "Meets Challenge" is more of a yes or no question, whereas "Subject Impact" really could be more of a Low/Avg/High score. Mayhap we could have the numbers swapped for those two?

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 17:16:33.

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

07/08/2005 04:56:17 PM · #19

Originally posted by SDW65:

Oh, you need to make the "average" on subject impact go away, otherwise it's possible to have "half" scores

--EDIT
Never mind, I can see from your coding that it would present a small issue... it's fine the way it is

I took it out, you just have to make sure you select either High or Low, otherwise it won't tablualte a score.

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 17:08:35.

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

07/08/2005 04:52:51 PM · #20

Can you add code to increment the score by one or two if the photo is by user srdanz?

That would be neat. Everyone should be using it for their scoring.

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/08/2005 04:46:33 PM · #21

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/08/2005 04:41:59 PM · #22

np SDW65!

I'll see what I can do, for writing out the results.

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 16:42:45.

aboutimage

Canon EOS-30D

07/08/2005 04:37:41 PM · #23

Could you add a little code to write out those result in a text box (so we can cut and paste into the comment window of the entry)?

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

07/08/2005 04:29:15 PM · #24

Originally posted by cpickett:

I just did a quick Javascript/html thing based off of your pic... It's at //fragme.org/votetab.html

It seems to act funky in IE (works greate in Firefox)... I'd fix it, but it looks like RebAl is going to make a flash one, so that would be better for cross platform use.

Works great in Firefox... Thanks!

Is there a way to make the window stay on top of IE so it don't minimize when you go to the next picture?

Message edited by author 2005-07-08 16:41:38.