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05/31/2005 12:46:01 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by ganders:
Originally posted by DanSig:
as far as the Mac goes, for photoediting I have never had a computer this secure, I have NEVER lost any photoshop work on a Mac due to freezing, bluescreen, or other malfunction in software or hardware, but I frequently suffer from loss of work when using a windows based system |
With respect, you've got something seriously wrong with whatever windows based system you're using then. Even 5 years ago I'd have been inclined to agree but on an XP-based system? I can't think of the last time I lost any photoshop work due to a crash and although I do very occasionally get bluescreens it's a hardware issue (overheating) rather than anything to do with the OS.
I'd question your assertion that the G5 is "the most popular setup for..." all those people; I'd love to read the statistics you're basing that on. |
you are obviously not working with the same size files I do.
try working with a file that includes 150 layers, image size 160.000 x 45.000 pixels @540dpi, the total filesize exeeding 1.5GB and try running a filter like Gaussian blur... it made photoshop on windows stop responding every time I tried, the G5 made it in 17 sec without problems :)
Message edited by author 2005-05-31 13:02:03. |
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05/31/2005 12:39:08 PM · #2 |
Answer to the video card question... ;)
Because you can buy servers that are from last cycle for a mere $1,000-$2,000. And off-lease units even cheaper...
Compaq Proliant DL580 Dual P3 900MHz Xeon, 2GB RAM, 144GB, RAID!
I do believe Mac has come a LONG way. I may even contemplate a Mac at some point down the road. I believe their moving to BSD for their operating system core was an extremely smart move on their part. And has added much stability to the platform. (And for Mac addicts, please don't say it's always been there. I used to own a Mac. And I worked in a business environment totally based on Macs. (pre OS-X they crashed often).
Current issues with Mac is it costs you an arm and a leg.
The price of Mac systems and software is exhorbient. My Toshiba P25 Satellite 17" laptop gave me very few problems in the almost two years I've had. (Actually surprising for a PC... ;) Yes, I am sending it off to be fixed but for a minor issue. The power input jack is a bit worn and not making a clean connection.
The biggest thing that kills Mac adoption is their constant over-exaggeration. Every new processor "oh it's 10x faster than it's PC counter-parts). But when independent examiners test they find that in one or two benchmarks they are but in most they still lag behind PCs.
On the flip side, I believe Mac is improving quite a bit - as I said their OS-X and the complete dis-inheritance of prior hardware was a very wise decision. |
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05/31/2005 12:35:45 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
as far as the Mac goes, for photoediting I have never had a computer this secure, I have NEVER lost any photoshop work on a Mac due to freezing, bluescreen, or other malfunction in software or hardware, but I frequently suffer from loss of work when using a windows based system |
With respect, you've got something seriously wrong with whatever windows based system you're using then. Even 5 years ago I'd have been inclined to agree but on an XP-based system? I can't think of the last time I lost any photoshop work due to a crash and although I do very occasionally get bluescreens it's a hardware issue (overheating) rather than anything to do with the OS.
I'd question your assertion that the G5 is "the most popular setup for..." all those people; I'd love to read the statistics you're basing that on. |
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05/31/2005 12:20:36 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by DanSig:
4GB..since that's the max for a PC |
Not quite true, actually a bit of typical Mac-addict mis-information. There are WinTel PCs out there that are running 32GBs of RAM. However, when you approach said levels of RAM and multi-processors you enter the "server" territory.
The 4gb data address is the max per 32bit processor memory bus.
Few people realize the server option but most people who go that route find themselves with a much more stable computer system. |
actually I am NOT Mac addict, I have been using PC since MSDOS 3.xx and still do, I have had servers, workstations, game machines, and graphics stations, very big difference between those all..
and I have used all types of Windows, Linux, Os2, and OsX, so I am not in favor of any specific type of hardware or system, they all serve a specific purpose, and have their strenghts and weaknesses.
I chose Mac last time I upgraded because I wanted to know if it was as good as everyone said.
I still have a AMD 2700XP on my desk, and I use it for software not available on the mac, like 3DsMax 6 and Autocad architectural desktop.
to advice someone to buy a computer designed as a server, and to use it as a photoediting station.. well it's a very BAD advice, there is a reason why it's a SERVER ;) and who would spend $100K on a desktop/server for personal use ? (average price for multi processor AMD64)
as far as the Mac goes, for photoediting I have never had a computer this secure, I have NEVER lost any photoshop work on a Mac due to freezing, bluescreen, or other malfunction in software or hardware, but I frequently suffer from loss of work when using a windows based system, so I have completly stopped doing important work on a PC, unless autosave is set from 30sec-1min.
the dual processor G5 with the 23" apple HD cinema display is the most popular setup for photographers, videoeditors, graphic designers and many other digital artists worldwide.
I know the PC is greater in numbers, but no specific PC setup is greater in number than the dual G5 with the 23" HD cinema display. it's just the most popular in the artist world.. and it not only works as supposed to, it's a great design and looks good everywhere :) |
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05/31/2005 11:59:29 AM · #5 |
| And yes, they claim the same functionality by holding the click-button, but this constitutes a great loss of accumulated time. |
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05/31/2005 11:53:20 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by koltrane75:
PC Idea #1:
* AMD 64-FX 55
* 2GB RAM
* 2x 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard drives
* 1x 250GB 7,200 SATA Hard Drive
* 2x PCI-E 6800 Geforce Ultra 256MB Video Cards in SLI config
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:D I like
Build me one too..
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05/31/2005 11:52:17 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by cghubbell:
For some, Windows is just not an option that works in the way that they do.
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Likewise, Mac is not for everyone.....
Although I am much more supportive of where Mac has been going in recent years....I am still left shouting "Give me the !@#$% two-button mouse Steve!" |
Although MacOS is fully compatible with multi-button mice out of the box, I still wonder how they've resisted this long. Being a long-time UNIX / X-Windows guy, I tend to scream for 3 buttons.
The logic is supposed to be that tech support always has trouble getting people to understand "right click" and "left click" so they went to a model where all that was needed was "click". I can see the argument, and have been trying to tell myself that I just need to keep an open mind. But deep down I still love my three-button mouse.
Message edited by author 2005-05-31 11:52:47.
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05/31/2005 11:47:52 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
For some, Windows is just not an option that works in the way that they do.
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Likewise, Mac is not for everyone.....
Although I am much more supportive of where Mac has been going in recent years....I am still left shouting "Give me the !@#$% two-button mouse Steve!" |
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05/31/2005 11:47:29 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by DanSig:
4GB..since that's the max for a PC |
Not quite true, actually a bit of typical Mac-addict mis-information. There are WinTel PCs out there that are running 32GBs of RAM. However, when you approach said levels of RAM and multi-processors you enter the "server" territory.
The 4gb data address is the max per 32bit processor memory bus.
As for good 2D performance. Matrox makes some of the best cards for 2D work. A lot of graphic designers still prefer Matrox over all else. (And yes, they were the ones to first really push the dual-head systems). They often rate better for color precision, etc on the 2D level. They just couldn't keep up with the gaming end of things.
(oops just saw Bobster mention Matrox)
Furthermore, if you really want a stable machine you might want to consider taking a step back in "performance" and buying a out of cycle server. (Last cycle's servers go for much less. However, what a lot of people do not realize is that servers go thru much more testing, configuration and use higher quality parts. Better power supplies, sometimes dual power-supplies. Better memory. Just overall better quality. They have to be, data is $$$.
Few people realize the server option but most people who go that route find themselves with a much more stable computer system. |
Woot...
Hey Saj you running any Dell servers? I'd agrue the quality parts thing... :)
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05/31/2005 11:43:18 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bobster:
dang the G5 only goes up2 8GB? @ 4GB/S
have to take this dual Opteron with 16GB @ 12GB/S back to the store ;)
Opterons/AMD64 rip through Photoshop :)
do you want to run 3D apps? or games? if its games go ATI if its 3D apps go 3Dlabs Realizm ;)
if you want to run 2D go Matrox :) |
AMD 64s are very nice, but it's important to look at the big picture. Windows and Mac have two very different paradigms. For some, Windows is just not an option that works in the way that they do.
Given the investment a new system often requires, it would probably be good advice to visit a Mac shopp as well as one of the legions of places that has Windows machines and see if you have a preference.
Raw power isn't everything. I currently use an AMD Athlon 2000xp (~1800mhz) on an older MB and it does a nice job of processing my raw images. Sure, that AMD64 would rip through my images in the same way a Porsche would get me to work faster. But either one get the job done nicely.
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05/31/2005 11:34:27 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
4GB..since that's the max for a PC |
Not quite true, actually a bit of typical Mac-addict mis-information. There are WinTel PCs out there that are running 32GBs of RAM. However, when you approach said levels of RAM and multi-processors you enter the "server" territory.
The 4gb data address is the max per 32bit processor memory bus.
As for good 2D performance. Matrox makes some of the best cards for 2D work. A lot of graphic designers still prefer Matrox over all else. (And yes, they were the ones to first really push the dual-head systems). They often rate better for color precision, etc on the 2D level. They just couldn't keep up with the gaming end of things.
(oops just saw Bobster mention Matrox)
Furthermore, if you really want a stable machine you might want to consider taking a step back in "performance" and buying a out of cycle server. (Last cycle's servers go for much less. However, what a lot of people do not realize is that servers go thru much more testing, configuration and use higher quality parts. Better power supplies, sometimes dual power-supplies. Better memory. Just overall better quality. They have to be, data is $$$.
Few people realize the server option but most people who go that route find themselves with a much more stable computer system.
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05/31/2005 10:49:04 AM · #12 |
| #1 AMD 64's are second to none! |
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05/31/2005 10:41:22 AM · #13 |
| final bump for the people back to work... |
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05/30/2005 06:04:05 PM · #14 |
dang the G5 only goes up2 8GB? @ 4GB/S
have to take this dual Opteron with 16GB @ 12GB/S back to the store ;)
Opterons/AMD64 rip through Photoshop :)
do you want to run 3D apps? or games? if its games go ATI if its 3D apps go 3Dlabs Realizm ;)
if you want to run 2D go Matrox :)
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05/30/2005 12:30:39 AM · #15 |
General,
Building from a barebones or have a box made for you by picking components?
There are many very good places out there like Monarch Computers and the link is to a very good AMD64 3000+ 1G RAM USB/Firewire with an ATI Radeon 9600XT video card (Excellent Card - about a year old technology but still a big seller) $789 and you add your keyboard, mouse and monitor and you have an excellent rig.
Build your own systems are where you shop around and when you have all your parts put it together. Pricewatch.com is your friend when shopping parts, Newegg is a reliable place to get parts.
One of the easiest with the best assemble directions was a Shuttle desktop that I built for my pop-in-law...you start with a kit like the link which has audio, lan, usb/firewire integrated then get the processor, memory, hard disk and video card. In the end we had a nice machine in a cute box for him...been about two years and he hasn't put in a service call at my house yet.
Anyways just ask there are plenty of us around here that dabble in pewters...
ED: Oh yeah and the weekly bargain hunter place (Coupons and Sales at all the big guys) to look for anything from camera to computer (sheesh they even have omaha steak deals there) is Techbargains
Message edited by author 2005-05-30 00:34:26.
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05/30/2005 12:30:11 AM · #16 |
Actually an awesome video card for that price...it's an OEM'd BFG Tech card...Similar to the one I just got for work.
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05/30/2005 12:18:46 AM · #17 |
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05/29/2005 11:13:25 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...Sorry, had to say it...
Do you need the cards listed below to do imaging no, but why limit yourself by seeking out a 2D card to avoid over kill.
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I do agree with your logic. My problem is that i dont have much knowledge about PC hardware hence i normally buy a branded PC, say IBM as it is easier just choose say a model than assembling one , where you need to select each component.
Since last 2 years i have been doing lots of imaging using PS and i feel branded Pc do not suit my need as they were assembled without aiming at any specfic need.
So i have decided to assemble a PC for the first time.
Anyone who can direct me on how to go about selecting components or say any resouces on net from where i can understand asslembling Pc better.
I aim at making a Pc exclusively for Imaginging and have a my current Pc as my second PC for doing other works.
Message edited by author 2005-05-29 23:17:46.
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05/29/2005 10:41:57 PM · #19 |
| Are there vid cards that are made better for 2D at the expense of 3D performance? I have never seen them. I thought as far as 2D goes, all cards are created equally. |
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05/29/2005 07:55:25 PM · #20 |
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05/29/2005 01:19:18 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by General:
I just wanted one clarification
If i also make a PC with above mentioned configuration and my only interest is using PS for imaging work, won't a 3d graphics card be an overkill |
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...Sorry, had to say it...
Do you need the cards listed below to do imaging no, but why limit yourself by seeking out a 2D card to avoid over kill.
Do/Are you going to watch DVD's on this system?
You can pick up an nVidia 5200 Ultra with 128M ram for less than fifty bucks and if you decide you want to try Tiger Woods golf later you won't be poopooed because of the video card. I just got a PNY GeForce FX 5500 w/128M ram and Multiheaded (2xdb15 (svga for the old monitors)) for 99 bucks for my work pc. ATI has some really nice Radeon series that are going quite cheap as well. 2D/3D it won't be very long and you will need some sort of half way decent 3DFX card to fully enjoy the Internet. It is happening already and some just don't realize it...those with lessor grade video adapters don't realize that they are asking the software to perform some of the accelarations the pewters are doing today.
(My first big Video jump) I went from a 3DFX Voodoo 3 with 16M of ram to an BFG GeForce FX 5200 with 128M of RAM and a bazillion times faster core clock...and I immediately noticed that my CD performed faster on reads. The more you can do on any piece of hardware all pieces benefit and in the end happy faces all around.
You may even pay more for an "Industry Approved" 2D card for imaging because that is what marketing folks like to do...prey on the genre specific crowds...
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05/29/2005 12:39:22 PM · #22 |
I just wanted one clarification
If i also make a PC with above mentioned configuration and my only interest is using PS for imaging work, won't a 3d graphics card be an overkill
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05/29/2005 10:08:30 AM · #23 |
Amazing when you ask a pc question how many the apple boys come out of the walls...
I have a matrox parahelia 128 and love it!!
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05/29/2005 10:01:33 AM · #24 |
Thanks all for the input!
As as FYI, I plan to use the 2x 74GB hard drives in a Raid 0 setup.
Motherboard for the AMD would have the Nforce4 architecture. Motherboard for the Intel would have a 800 or 1600 Frontside Bus.
I'm kind of nervous about going to the Mac.
15 years ago, I was a Mac only person. My last one was a Quadra 610.
But due to College and a Computer Science degree, PC became the only option. And re-buying Photoshop isn't all that appealing.
Anyway, I am still thinking....
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05/29/2005 05:12:35 AM · #25 |
I would also reccomend looking at the powermac G5, dual 2.3 or 2.7GHz, you can go up to 8GB DDR and it's soo silent, I somtimes have to put my ear to the G5 to hear if it's running (if the monitor is turned off)
but if you are going for a PC then get a dual AMD64, and if you really need the graphics power then get the 3Dlabs Wildcat Realizm 800, link here
it's the most powerful graphicscard available for PC :)
and I like the idea of 2x 74GB 10k rpm disks raided as systemdisk/scratch, makes photoshop run great :)
but with a big PC get more RAM, 4GB..since that's the max for a PC, windows is a memory eater and will devour haf of your RAM, no matter how much you have, 2GB is very nice for photoshop. |
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