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04/14/2003 10:09:46 PM · #1 |
Hmm - I'm torn about whether to add to this thread or not...
OneSweetSin - you started a post about trolls and complained that there is always a post about trolls. Ironic. Then you complained that it seems a lot of people are being grouchy. Ironic again.
I've looked at your photo's before and you take some stunning photo's. I don't know why one comment would upset you that much. I took a photo of a wasp and got several "egh, bugs" comments but who cares? Those people don't like bugs, yet at the same time other people love them.
Everyone here has the right to vote as they wish. I believe the site should never censor comments unless they are exceptionally rude. As others mentioned, if you're going to remove these votes you'd also have to remove the 10's just because someone likes a subject. Plus, it's absolutely impossible to police.
I think you just have to trust that most people vote photo's largely on their merit, and for every flag hater there will be a flag lover to compensate. I'm sure the same applies to many topics... I've seen many comments from people voting nudity harshly so you've hardly been singled out.
Finally, please restrain from discussing current images. You have effectively pleaded for sympathy from voters by discussing your entry and affected the results for the other 230 people in the weather challenge (btw - I'm not in this week so this is not a personal complaint).
Keep your chin up - I'm sure your overall score will reflect the image well. Now, let's all move on and think happy thoughts.
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04/14/2003 10:08:15 PM · #2 |
| oh but I want to tke a photo of a kangaroo :-P Hey I am Australian, its the best fauna I can find lol |
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04/14/2003 09:58:14 PM · #3 |
I think we could turn this into a fun game. Every week we could each pick a subjects to give 1s and 10s to.
I think next week I'll give a 1 to every picture of a kangaroo that I see, and I'll give a 10 to every picture of a turtle.
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04/14/2003 09:38:24 PM · #4 |
Thank you Joebar.
That's what I was trying to say at the beginning of this discussion, but somehow I think the point was lost somewhere along the way.
Ah well...
-Matt |
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04/14/2003 08:34:41 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
The way you are voting is what I am talkng about looking and considering the entire photo. Not voting a 1 just because. |
Sin, did anyone on here ever say they would flat out give a 1 to a photo just because of subject matter? Who are you preaching at? Your commenter is obviously not in this discussion, and I dont think anyone is agreeing with him on the American Flag issue. We get the point! But it is still his perrogative.
Sidenote: Beautifully lit waving flag. Total "WOW"er. Only it's a Nazi flag with a 4 year old dressed as Hitler waving it over his head.
You're gonna give it a 10 I suppose? Sometimes, subject matter is a factor no matter how much we say it isnt.
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04/14/2003 08:07:14 PM · #6 |
I hate McDonalds...................................but..................
I vote on the quality of the picture.............
........unless it was presented by the antiChrist |
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04/14/2003 07:58:47 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
I voted the flag pictures based mostly on how they appeal to me usually (5 or 6 on most of them), and didn't give it a 10 just because I love US flag pictures. So it's to bad that the others who voted 1's didn't have the same open mindedness about it. I think it's pretty lame to vote that way, although like a few people said, you do open yourself up to it. That's why I've never submitted a flag picture, because I know there are about 20 American haters voting (I can tell by the bell curves) so I don't give them the pleasure. :) |
The way you are voting is what I am talkng about looking and considering the entire photo. Not voting a 1 just because. Will I do another flag photo...YES I am pretty sure I will. Next time I think I will take a photo of the flag flyin at McDonalds....do you think they will still complain about a flag when it is the Golden Arches? |
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04/14/2003 07:53:33 PM · #8 |
OneSweetSin, I noticed the same voting "curve" on all the flag pictures. :) It's normal in the middle but the 10's and 1's are abnormally high on both ends (mostly on the 1's end).
I voted the flag pictures based mostly on how they appeal to me usually (5 or 6 on most of them), and didn't give it a 10 just because I love US flag pictures. So it's to bad that the others who voted 1's didn't have the same open mindedness about it. I think it's pretty lame to vote that way, although like a few people said, you do open yourself up to it. That's why I've never submitted a flag picture, because I know there are about 20 American haters voting (I can tell by the bell curves) so I don't give them the pleasure. :)
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04/14/2003 07:52:52 PM · #9 |
| You know I am starting to wonder if some people got out of bed on the wrong side of bed today and are just trying to share the grouchiness with the rest of the world. |
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04/14/2003 07:46:24 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by jenarom:
For my picture ("Wilting Away") on the "Indoor Macro Shot" challenge, I received this comment:
It's wilting away because you plucked it from the ground where it was content. Why not use a subject which is naturally found indoors? Leave the flowers for the other challenges. |
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I agree with that comment.. I was very bummed that on a challenge specifically called "INDOOR macro shot", there were so many flowers. I'd guess that when they came up with that challenge they were hoping that by intentionally saying INDOOR, it would encourage people to look for other interesting subjects, rather than submit the standard flower macro.
Macro = flowers and bugs
Outdoor Macro = flowers and bugs
Indoor Macro = they tried, but still got flowers and bugs..
I predict that if there was a challenge called "Bathroom Macro", there'd be 50 photos of flowers in a toilet bowl. |
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04/14/2003 07:45:58 PM · #11 |
Joebar you have mail.
To everyone else after reading the most recent comments I recieved on the photo, I will be changing the name after the voting ends and it will be the first photo that I will have available in DPCPrints next week. |
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04/14/2003 07:37:40 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by loz1:
Thank you for bringing some brightness into this thread. *bows at you* |
Yeah! Glad someone noticed that.
OneSweetSin -- If someone left this comment:
"ehh so so photo, but my brother is in Iraq right now and this brought a tear to my eye -- 10!"
Would you start a rant thread saying this comment and vote should be removed? Not a chance......................
The voter is obviously biased, right? Same exact thing as someone saying they hate America or whatever and he will give every flag photo a 1. |
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04/14/2003 07:34:25 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by jenarom:
For my picture ("Wilting Away") on the "Indoor Macro Shot" challenge, I received this comment:
It's wilting away because you plucked it from the ground where it was content. Why not use a subject which is naturally found indoors? Leave the flowers for the other challenges.
I know its sad to received this kind of comments, but the funny thing is that also on this same picture I've received some of the best comments ever on my pictures. I think we just have to learn to accept any kind of opinion on our work. DPC is worldwide, so we should expect a whole world of different opinions, tastes, preferences, etc. |
I think that was a wonderful photo I even scored it rather high. I appreciated it for the fact that it was a flower that was cut and brought indoors to wither away. Is it not sad to be so misunderstood. |
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04/14/2003 07:25:04 PM · #14 |
For my picture ("Wilting Away") on the "Indoor Macro Shot" challenge, I received this comment:
It's wilting away because you plucked it from the ground where it was content. Why not use a subject which is naturally found indoors? Leave the flowers for the other challenges.
I know its sad to received this kind of comments, but the funny thing is that also on this same picture I've received some of the best comments ever on my pictures. I think we just have to learn to accept any kind of opinion on our work. DPC is worldwide, so we should expect a whole world of different opinions, tastes, preferences, etc.
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04/14/2003 05:33:31 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by joebar:
Now quit your bitchin -- everyone gets crappy scores from time to time. For that unjustified 1 you got from the "troll", I'm sure you'll get a few unjustified 10s from biased USA lovers, people with family in the military, etc.. |
Thank you for bringing some brightness into this thread. *bows at you*
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04/14/2003 05:11:52 PM · #16 |
That's pretty funny Bod, thanks for posting the link, I enjoyed reading it.
Greg |
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04/14/2003 04:59:15 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by dadas115:
BTW, where on earth did this term troll come from. I see people calling each other trolls all the time on dpreview.com and it reminds me of some silly elementary school playground scene of little kids pointing fingers at each other and calling names. I always get a laugh when I see people calling each other trolls, I guess it is just a funny mental picture for me.
Greg |
//www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll |
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04/14/2003 04:51:01 PM · #18 |
I don’t have any problem at all with people voting how they feel. If I did a picture of something someone didn’t like, even if it was technically perfect and they wanted to give it a 1 I think that is their prerogative. I definitely wouldn’t get mad at the person who left a comment like, “your subject sucks so I am giving it a 1” since they actually had the guts to say they were giving me a 1 and why they were giving it. I don’t think I would bother to vote if I felt that I had to give a high score because a picture is technically good. Give the person a break, they don’t like American flag pictures and want to discourage people from taking them by giving a 1 to whoever submits a picture of the flag. It is only one person and they even told you why they gave you a 1! I also think that leaving that comment there for all to see is better for you anyway. It isn’t like the comment was made anonymously. Everyone who comes to look at the comments for your picture will see that and see whom made the comment and draw their own conclusions. I think if anything having that comment there would generate sympathy for you from a lot of people here. This is just how I feel about the whole thing and I am sure that there are plenty here who completely disagree with me.
BTW, where on earth did this term troll come from. I see people calling each other trolls all the time on dpreview.com and it reminds me of some silly elementary school playground scene of little kids pointing fingers at each other and calling names. I always get a laugh when I see people calling each other trolls, I guess it is just a funny mental picture for me.
Greg
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04/14/2003 02:33:28 PM · #19 |
in the past, people have said "oh no, not another [crayon/baby/FLOWER/telephone/salt shaker/fill in the blank]" - it's not always just flags.
if an image has an emotional impact on a voter, whether the object is a flag, weapon, religious, a political statement of some sort, or has sexual content - both on the upside and the downside there will be an effect beyond the 'technical' merits of the photo (or if the object was just used in too many submissions and by the n-th vote it seems so unoriginal, or if its too 'progressive').
it is a little strong to unilaterally say that these will be voted low regardless of their techincal merit, that i agree. yet as with any 'cliche' image submitted - it better be a great photo to overcome the fatigue of the voters. |
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04/14/2003 02:03:10 PM · #20 |
| I have to agree to say that if a photo has a flag in it you are going to score it a 1 isn't fair to anyone, even the person who wins for that weeks challenge hasn't had a fair win cause they have won cause people didn't look at every photo in its entirity. |
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04/14/2003 01:56:06 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by joebar:
There is one flag that's really whipping in the wind -- that sorta says weather (if you combine the photo with the challenge and title). But it mostly just says flag. And it's just an average snapshot. The better flag photo barely shows weather.
Now quit your bitchin -- everyone gets crappy scores from time to time. For that unjustified 1 you got from the "troll", I'm sure you'll get a few unjustified 10s from biased USA lovers, people with family in the military, etc..
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
My comment about my flag photo was because joebar couldn't understand how a flag was related to weather...so I answered that question along with another one sorry if you don't like that I did that...hey ask to disqualify my photo if you want. |
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I'm not "bitchin'" but be aware that my photo uses the weather (indeed, every piece of the photo) as an element in a somewhat metaphorical composition; it is not intended to be an illustration in a meteorological textbook, such as "this is a Cirrus Cloud."
Not all people who take pictures of flags are your typical Flag-Wavers, including myself, who sometimes use the flag even while recognizing that we can still Aim Higher.
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04/14/2003 01:53:14 PM · #22 |
I don't think someone who leaves a comment explaining their reasons for a low vote is a troll, necessarily. And anyway, the didn't say they were scoring you a 1, they just said in future.
At the present time, I find it very difficult to vote on pics of American flags without emotions getting in the way. I won't go into the reasons.
Like with the colour challenge: the South African flag is far more colourful.
Move on. People give 1's because they see photos as uninspired, or because they see them as too unusual; because they hate the subject, or because they hate the photo; because content matters or because quality matters; because they're looking for 'different' photos or because they're looking for 'technically perfect' photos.
The great thing here, IMO, is that one gets a good cross-section of the photo-loving community (with a statistical bias toward the US) on-line. That helps my understanding of what people in general like or don't like. I try not to let it affect my own judgement of my own photos - I'm not shooting to please the crowd, I'm shooting to impress myself: I hope I'm my own sternest critic.
We've all, without exception I would imagine, been baffled by the reaction of the site to our photos. In my case right from my first entry, when I couldn't understand how a perfectly exposed and focussed shot rated so many low scores. (Mind you I still don't understand that). That's what happens here, and that's all you can do about it: understand it.
If you look at any of the flag pics, including Setzler's shot that is the site favourite (or was for ages), you'll find a number of low votes. OSS, you should have expected it, really. Which doesn't make it any more reasonable.
Keep shooting all, and keep submitting: this is a useful place, if not always a kind place (and why should it be? If your holding your work up for assessment, be prepared to be assessed ...)
Ed
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04/14/2003 01:39:42 PM · #23 |
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04/14/2003 01:36:41 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by joebar:
Now quit your bitchin -- everyone gets crappy scores from time to time. For that unjustified 1 you got from the "troll", I'm sure you'll get a few unjustified 10s from biased USA lovers, people with family in the military, etc..
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You just don't get it do you? The TROLL said he was giving every flag photo a 1 starting next week that is just completely unjust. That means he doesn't care if the photo is good or not he is going to score it a 1 without even looking at it! I could care less that he doesn't like my photo and I don't know if he gave it a one it is the close minded remark of giving every flag a one the reason he deserves the TROLL of the week award. |
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04/14/2003 01:21:29 PM · #25 |
There is one flag that's really whipping in the wind -- that sorta says weather (if you combine the photo with the challenge and title). But it mostly just says flag. And it's just an average snapshot. The better flag photo barely shows weather.
Now quit your bitchin -- everyone gets crappy scores from time to time. For that unjustified 1 you got from the "troll", I'm sure you'll get a few unjustified 10s from biased USA lovers, people with family in the military, etc..
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
My comment about my flag photo was because joebar couldn't understand how a flag was related to weather...so I answered that question along with another one sorry if you don't like that I did that...hey ask to disqualify my photo if you want. |
Message edited by author 2003-04-14 13:31:55. |
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