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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Light on White or White on White?
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03/05/2005 10:00:42 AM · #1
Yes I am arguing just to argue as well. I was just trying to get some debate going on the matter to see what others thought. It is so much fun to see and debate something as simple as white. I appreciate all of those who have commented on my silly ramblings. It is amazing the way people can get so passionate about something as simple as white. =)

Originally posted by ralphnev:

quite calm -
my shot is white on white as well. i tried to match b&w as close as possbile in rgb space without desaturating -
indeed printers do not have white ink - they presume that you are printing on white paper & attempt to use that to their advantage
they(most) also use cmyk space which is subtractive as opposed to RGB
which is additive / one reflects other is transmissive.

so which space ?
in rgb white is all colors added together
- so how can it NOT be a color ? 1+1+1=0 ?

of course, i'm just arguing for the sake of arguing - in my mind a 'light color' means white grey and most other combninations of color ..

hmmm ... back to working on sureal ...







Originally posted by G4Ds:

Dood you need to calm down. I am all for white being in the challenge. My shot is white on white. I am getting comments about it being in b&w when it is not. You can do this. The argument was that white is not a color, and it isn't. How many printers are you using with white ink? White is the absence of color, so how could it be a color?

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

But pure white is not a color but a reflection of all colors.


what temperature of white ? 6500K ? nice blue sky ? 2700K nice ruddy 60watt bulb ?

what is the reflecting surface ? white sheet (complete with optical brighteners )
or Chrome / mirror which shows off your K of light source ? paper ? linen 20lb kind of yellowish /?

how about envronment ? / your calibrated monitor ? the poor white balence on the camera ? (grey world mech. or white patch ? auto manual or tweeked ?? )

your receptors of white are not my receptors -
my eyes see my vision/version of the world

i vote highly for nice pictures ;) pictures that strike me as different ,good concept that had a bit of effort and/or thought put in . within a vauge set of rules that more or less correspond to the 'challenge'

I vote low for the opposite -- not all egg/flower/dog/lightbulb pictures are good
but some are ;)
03/05/2005 12:03:04 AM · #2
When you take a picture, light enters the lens and makes a chemical reaction with the film or, for this site, it is measured with a digital sensor. Since light is the only thing that makes a picture, then "Light on White" basicly means "anything with a white background."

Also, why is everyone making such a big deal about this? I'm just in this for the fun of it. Go ahead and give my picture a 1. That's just your opinion. Someone may look at picture and think it is the best picture in the world, while another may think it's the worst.

It would be pretty funny if the person who make this challenge intended to make it vague and is reading all this and laughing their head off.
03/04/2005 11:24:40 PM · #3
High Key Black and white is an accepted art form. Well it was when I started photography, and the basics dont change.
03/04/2005 10:57:33 PM · #4
Originally posted by ChasSourek:

Im sure white is light.
Doesnt say ANYTHING about a color.


I think you might have actually mis-read the challenge. It very clearly states:
"Take a photo in which the background is white and the subject is predominately a "light" color. Be mindful of over-exposing your highlights!"


03/04/2005 10:52:38 PM · #5
quite calm -
my shot is white on white as well. i tried to match b&w as close as possbile in rgb space without desaturating -
indeed printers do not have white ink - they presume that you are printing on white paper & attempt to use that to their advantage
they(most) also use cmyk space which is subtractive as opposed to RGB
which is additive / one reflects other is transmissive.

so which space ?
in rgb white is all colors added together
- so how can it NOT be a color ? 1+1+1=0 ?

of course, i'm just arguing for the sake of arguing - in my mind a 'light color' means white grey and most other combninations of color ..

hmmm ... back to working on sureal ...







Originally posted by G4Ds:

Dood you need to calm down. I am all for white being in the challenge. My shot is white on white. I am getting comments about it being in b&w when it is not. You can do this. The argument was that white is not a color, and it isn't. How many printers are you using with white ink? White is the absence of color, so how could it be a color?

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

But pure white is not a color but a reflection of all colors.


what temperature of white ? 6500K ? nice blue sky ? 2700K nice ruddy 60watt bulb ?

what is the reflecting surface ? white sheet (complete with optical brighteners )
or Chrome / mirror which shows off your K of light source ? paper ? linen 20lb kind of yellowish /?

how about envronment ? / your calibrated monitor ? the poor white balence on the camera ? (grey world mech. or white patch ? auto manual or tweeked ?? )

your receptors of white are not my receptors -
my eyes see my vision/version of the world

i vote highly for nice pictures ;) pictures that strike me as different ,good concept that had a bit of effort and/or thought put in . within a vauge set of rules that more or less correspond to the 'challenge'

I vote low for the opposite -- not all egg/flower/dog/lightbulb pictures are good
but some are ;)
03/04/2005 10:23:32 PM · #6
[quote=G4Ds] White is the absence of color, so how could it be a color?
[quote=G4Ds]
Sort of but not in photography of when looking at a monitor. With pigment and a white paper ( as in printeing) white is a negative. In photography try shooting with the lens cap in. Dark isnt it? White is the presence of all wavelenghts, all the colors. When you unplug your monitor does it go bright white? Mine goes black.

Theory goes all pigments equal black, all lights equal white. picky I know but I'm feeling pendantic tonight.
03/04/2005 10:19:22 PM · #7
Originally posted by G4Ds:

Dood you need to calm down. I am all for white being in the challenge. My shot is white on white. I am getting comments about it being in b&w when it is not. You can do this. The argument was that white is not a color, and it isn't. How many printers are you using with white ink? White is the absence of color, so how could it be a color?


White is *either* the absence or combination of all colors, if you think about it...
On your display (emitted light), white is achieved through the combination of full Red Green and Blue, therefore it is a combination of "all" colors. In printed material (reflected light), it's based entirely on the LACK of ink on a white base (paper)... or white ink on a dark base... (a double or triple hit often being required due to the low opacity of most white inks).

It's not entirely clear and arguing about white being the presence or absence of color is arguing a technicality that goes against the intent (as I see it) of the challenge description, which implicitly states "color".

Whatever.

Like I said before, this kind of challenge will yield completely unexpected results, as most voters probably don't even care that much for the "details" of the description and sure as hell don't read these threads :)
03/04/2005 10:07:47 PM · #8
Dood you need to calm down. I am all for white being in the challenge. My shot is white on white. I am getting comments about it being in b&w when it is not. You can do this. The argument was that white is not a color, and it isn't. How many printers are you using with white ink? White is the absence of color, so how could it be a color?

Originally posted by ralphnev:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

But pure white is not a color but a reflection of all colors.


what temperature of white ? 6500K ? nice blue sky ? 2700K nice ruddy 60watt bulb ?

what is the reflecting surface ? white sheet (complete with optical brighteners )
or Chrome / mirror which shows off your K of light source ? paper ? linen 20lb kind of yellowish /?

how about envronment ? / your calibrated monitor ? the poor white balence on the camera ? (grey world mech. or white patch ? auto manual or tweeked ?? )

your receptors of white are not my receptors -
my eyes see my vision/version of the world

i vote highly for nice pictures ;) pictures that strike me as different ,good concept that had a bit of effort and/or thought put in . within a vauge set of rules that more or less correspond to the 'challenge'

I vote low for the opposite -- not all egg/flower/dog/lightbulb pictures are good
but some are ;)
03/04/2005 11:27:50 AM · #9
Originally posted by netdude:

... I suppose the only way to really know is to ask the authors of the criteria to be a little more specific next time. ...


But why ruin all the fun!? Words and sentences can obviously be interpreted as many ways as a color definition...

I love DPC! Where else can I be kept smiling all day?
03/04/2005 11:17:27 AM · #10
There seems to be some controversy in this contest as to specifically what the site wanted for a pic. The way I interpreted it was to challenge us to clearly define a light colored object on against a white object behing mindful of course about overexposing the highlights so detail against a white background are not lost. I've recieved more than one comment indicating many others are interpreting things much more stictly and are looking for an all white background with only light objects and no dark at all. I suppose the only way to really know is to ask the authors of the criteria to be a little more specific next time. Having said that there are some great pics in this contest completely independent of how strictly you you intepret the requirments. Even several of the pics that really played on the words and were humorous. It just goes to show how creative we can be. To that I say Democracy is a wonderful double edged sword. Keep up the good work all and thank you for all the helpful comments I have received. This was my first entry and I have learned so much already.
03/04/2005 11:10:01 AM · #11
i've been out of kindergarden for a long time and white is white, whether it's different shades it doesnt matter its still white..so if the subject wasn't in front of something white than why should we vote the photo high? when it says a WHITE background
03/04/2005 11:07:25 AM · #12
Originally posted by G4Ds:

But pure white is not a color but a reflection of all colors.


what temperature of white ? 6500K ? nice blue sky ? 2700K nice ruddy 60watt bulb ?

what is the reflecting surface ? white sheet (complete with optical brighteners )
or Chrome / mirror which shows off your K of light source ? paper ? linen 20lb kind of yellowish /?

how about envronment ? / your calibrated monitor ? the poor white balence on the camera ? (grey world mech. or white patch ? auto manual or tweeked ?? )

your receptors of white are not my receptors -
my eyes see my vision/version of the world

i vote highly for nice pictures ;) pictures that strike me as different ,good concept that had a bit of effort and/or thought put in . within a vauge set of rules that more or less correspond to the 'challenge'

I vote low for the opposite -- not all egg/flower/dog/lightbulb pictures are good
but some are ;)

Message edited by author 2005-03-04 11:09:11.
03/04/2005 11:05:05 AM · #13
Maybe purely from a scientific standpoint, white is a non-color. However, as a block of some hue that I see amongst blues and greens and what-have-yous, I throw it in the category of 'colors,' as far as day-to-day usage of the word is concerned.

By the way, when you look in the paint section at Lowes, you'll see a few dozen shades of white as paint choices before you start hitting undeniably non-white shades. Are ALL few dozen whites non-color? In that case, if you want to argue scientifically, all but one of them would have color to it of some sort, therefore, be a color. Am I correct?

Furthermore, if we're to base on strictly white background, who, with a naked eye only, can identify for us all exactly which pictures have that truly white background (the one without any color). With that, who, with that same naked eye, can define whether or not my photo doesn't fit the challenge on the other end of it, because my subject is truly white (again, the one without any color). In short, let's stop fussing about what is white and what isn't and focus on the spirit of the challenge: attaining attractive, quality pictures which have fairly undebatably white (at any shade of white) background, and have a light subject.

-Annette

Agree? Disagree? Yay? Neigh?

Message edited by author 2005-03-04 11:09:06.
03/04/2005 11:03:49 AM · #14
Originally posted by holdingtime:

Just a thought It says a white background and a predominatly light subject...........it does not say your entire background has to be white or that nothing else can be in pic. Just a white background to your subject....so if we are splitting hairs here any light subject with a white background weather it is the entire picture or not is by the rules, and to the ones with only white background on entire photo how do we even know there is even a background there without some other referance point, which the subject does not provid.It is an easy thing in photo shop to creat a white background on anything.


This is where I am getting killed, I didn't use a white background and my score shows it.

Message edited by author 2005-03-04 11:08:16.
03/04/2005 11:00:47 AM · #15
Just a thought It says a white background and a predominatly light subject...........it does not say your entire background has to be white or that nothing else can be in pic. Just a white background to your subject....so if we are splitting hairs here any light subject with a white background weather it is the entire picture or not is by the rules, and to the ones with only white background on entire photo how do we even know there is even a background there without some other referance point, which the subject does not provid.It is an easy thing in photo shop to creat a white background on anything.
03/04/2005 10:53:23 AM · #16
Originally posted by puma:

... white is not a color and should not be used as the subject.

The white background must meat a brightness quotient of 120 lumens or is not white enough.

But the good news is ... the light color is up for grabs.


He-he...this is fun!

Ok, so if white is not a color, how do they manage to put white crayons in my kids' coloring box?

If the light color is up for grabs, does a white subject under 120 lumens qualify as a light color since it is not white enough?
03/04/2005 10:40:22 AM · #17
White is not a blend of all frequencies. It is a reflection of all frequencies. Pure white has no color to it at all. It does not absorb any light frequencies making it a non color. Black is more of a color than white is. Black at least comes from the absorbtion of all colors. If white has even a smidgit of any color, than it is not pure white and then steps into the relm of color. But pure white is not a color but a reflection of all colors.

Originally posted by dahkota:

Well, if you want to get technical, colors are nothing more than frequencies of light just like notes on a scale are frequencies of sound. I do, however, like the blend of all the frequencies of light (white) MUCH more than then the blend of all the frequencies of sound. Especially at high volume.

Dahkota
03/03/2005 11:45:41 PM · #18
Here is how the challenge should read so that we can all get it right. Ya.

Challenge (Light on white). Take a photo in which the background is white and the subject is predominately a "light" color. Be mindful of over-exposing your highlights! Also be mindful that white is not a color and should not be used as the subject. Also black and whites are not valid as the white in B&W is really not white at all. The white background must meat a brightness quotient of 120 lumens or is not white enough. Black can not be used as a background and inverted to white as it is still really black not matter how white it looks. But the good news is that the bone I will through you so we can have ten thousand threads on the interpitation of this challenge is the light color is up for grabs. Good luck trying to score over a 5.

Message edited by author 2005-03-03 23:45:59.
03/03/2005 11:20:09 PM · #19
Well, if you want to get technical, colors are nothing more than frequencies of light just like notes on a scale are frequencies of sound. I do, however, like the blend of all the frequencies of light (white) MUCH more than then the blend of all the frequencies of sound. Especially at high volume.

Dahkota
03/03/2005 11:13:49 PM · #20
omg I can't believe this thread!! white is not a color, white is a color, etc. etc. WE WILL NEVER AGREE..so let's just go shoot something.
03/03/2005 11:09:03 PM · #21
Originally posted by G4Ds:

Just for the scientific record, neither black or white are colors. White is a reflection of all colors. Black absorbs all colors.


bah //
then what is grey ?

white is only not a color if you live in rgb space
& believe highschool physics

try cymk or Lab or real life offset printing
.. white is most certianly a color - it is more a matter of just which white ?
a c5y3m3 ?
03/03/2005 11:02:58 PM · #22
Just for the scientific record, neither black or white are colors. White is a reflection of all colors. Black absorbs all colors.
03/03/2005 10:09:59 PM · #23
Originally posted by nfessel:

What?? Is white a color??...... is the sky blue? If white wasn't a color, we wouldn't be able to see it. Give me a break. Some people are going way too deep with these interpretations to the point of stupidity.


Testify! The comments people have been posting about "like, if it's not, like, pale pink, then like, it doesn't count and like white is like sooooo not a color" are making me .. well... postal.
03/03/2005 10:06:41 PM · #24
What?? Is white a color??...... is the sky blue? If white wasn't a color, we wouldn't be able to see it. Give me a break. Some people are going way too deep with these interpretations to the point of stupidity.
03/03/2005 10:04:19 PM · #25
I just got a comment saying my shot doesn't fit the challenge because it's black and white. Ugh, that's what's been pissing me off all day, not about my own shot but people just saying that in general. Seriously, WHAT are people reading? Certainly not the challenge rules.
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