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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Beauty vs. Subject Matter vs. Good Photography
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08/23/2002 01:04:21 AM · #1
I will happily share the ferrari with everyone ' - )

08/23/2002 12:44:49 AM · #2
Mag - I was away for that challenge, but "Dividends" would definitely have been a 9 or 10 for me :). What the hell is wrong with nipples?

Although for some reason it makes me want to pinch....
08/22/2002 11:30:28 PM · #3
So I'll pledge allegience against the flag
And the fall for which it stands
But I'll raise it if I can!

Soldiers have their sorrow
The wretched have their rage
Pray for the aged
It's the dawn of another age...


-- Phil Ochs, c. 1968

I will tolerate -- even celebrate -- any culture which allows me and others to celebrate theirs and does not seek to exploit the Earth's resources out of proportion to their true productivity.

Here's a "flag photo" I happened to take my second day into my recent trip north to Washington.

I've been offline for a week, so I didn't know what this week's challenge was, or I would have contrived to take this on Monday instead of Saturday...and now I'm gone again until next week...
08/22/2002 09:40:34 PM · #4
Now for nudity, I do believe if you believe in Christianity there were two people that beget us named Adam and Eve. I believe that they ran around nude. If you got it, flaunt it, for you ain't going to have it forever and nudity is a part of beauty at least for awhile. Now for the United States flag it is the best made flag in the world as far as design and color. Betsy Ross did an excellent job for us. Now if we could only change that British drunken song so most of us could remember it.
08/22/2002 09:11:16 PM · #5
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
[i]Subject matter has little or no affect on my rating. However, visual appeal does. Say someone take a really aweful photo of a beautiful boquet of flowers (I like flowers) and someone else takes a gorgous photo of a snake (I don't like snakes). The snake get the score. That's the fair way to do it, right? If I make a comment that it's visually unappealing to me, I try to state WHY it is, and also state that it's just an opinion.

Spiders and snakes I have tried them, they don't work here. I don't like spiders or snakes but I don't always photograph what I like. You got to keep an open mind for there is a picture out there to be found.
08/22/2002 08:14:48 PM · #6
Magnetic - late reply from me but I liked Dividends - if only because it took some guts to submit it. The subject matter fitted the challenge in my view and it was wholly unlike anything anyone else submitted. Was great work.

John
08/22/2002 07:29:21 PM · #7
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]thanks mcmurma for being the only person to respond to my query :)

you win the ferrari .. everyone else can go suck eggs ;)


Hey, Hey..I responded you eggsucker!!!!![/i]

yep I liked it too! - I've run out of eggs....
08/22/2002 06:23:47 PM · #8
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
oh sorry.. mcmurma, please share the ferrari with hokie :) my bad ..

You know hokie I was originally going to sub a b&w version of that shot, but my 'advisor group' counseled me to use the color one. go figure, right?


I liked the color version too:-)

08/22/2002 05:30:05 PM · #9
oh sorry.. mcmurma, please share the ferrari with hokie :) my bad ..

You know hokie I was originally going to sub a b&w version of that shot, but my 'advisor group' counseled me to use the color one. go figure, right?

Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]thanks mcmurma for being the only person to respond to my query :)

you win the ferrari .. everyone else can go suck eggs ;)


Hey, Hey..I responded you eggsucker!!!!![/i]

08/22/2002 05:11:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
so just on a quick poll (that i'm sure im going to regret asking :-P), who hated my 'dividends' photo? and who loved it? just curious how this breaks down...


Haven't seen it before, but I think it's very good. Not my style in tends of what I'd want to buy but I really like it.



And I responded before I got down as far as the suck egg comment coz I replied when I read the request, than carried on reading.
Hmmmf. Don't want to suck eggs, do I have to?
;)

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 5:18:27 PM.
08/22/2002 04:18:06 PM · #11
I gave it an 8 , i thought it perfectly dscribed the seedy underbelly of corporate life and the sleezy men that run it.
08/22/2002 04:14:34 PM · #12
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
thanks mcmurma for being the only person to respond to my query :)

you win the ferrari .. everyone else can go suck eggs ;)


Hey, Hey..I responded you eggsucker!!!!!
08/22/2002 03:35:35 PM · #13
thanks mcmurma for being the only person to respond to my query :)

you win the ferrari .. everyone else can go suck eggs ;)

Originally posted by mcmurma:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]so just on a quick poll (that i'm sure im going to regret asking :-P), who hated my 'dividends' photo? and who loved it? just curious how this breaks down...


I didn't have a problem with the nudity aspect, I like breasts after all ' - ) But they were very unnatural looking. Due perhaps to the extremely red naughty bits. (I wondered... did you employ lipstick to color them?)

My score, though, (5) was based more on how well I felt the subject fit the challenge. I thought the connection was somewhat vague. For me, at least, they just didn't fit my idea of corporate world.

[/i]

08/22/2002 03:08:51 PM · #14
The Scottish flag is the Saltire which is the St Andrew's Cross flag,
(the blue and white one)

The other one is the heraldic symbol of the Scottish kings, since
William I of Scotland, and sometimes gets thought of as Scotland's
'other' flag. But the Blue & White one is the proper flag.
08/22/2002 02:40:53 PM · #15
I feel left out. Just wanted to tell everyone that I'm a mutt. I'm kind of a little piece of any country that drinks beer heavily. My hubby is very much only German. So I guess we have a German Mutt for a son. Ok, I feel not so left out now.
~Heather~
08/22/2002 02:27:10 PM · #16
Originally posted by lisae:
rapsiii3, you're just flame throwing. No one could possibly read my post and interpret it as anti-American.

Honestly, inviting arguments over nationalism with the world as it is right now is pretty ridiculous. I hope no one takes you up on that.


You are absolutly right. I was just flame throwing. And a fine little fire we got started here too!
08/22/2002 02:11:40 PM · #17
Gordon, I'm confused... Is this the Scotish flag?


My grandfather flew the Royal Lion Rampant (proudly I might add)... I've never understood that part...
08/22/2002 01:53:58 PM · #18
Originally posted by myqyl:

On the patriotism side of it, I've often wondered why we don't see
more flags from other countries... This is an international site,
but we really see a flag other that the Stars and Stripes...



This was the point I was trying to make - no other country invests
so much of their 'national identity' in the flag. You certainly
see a lot of union jacks around in the UK, but we don't pledge our
support to that (maybe that goes to the Queen, if you are in to that
sort of thing) our anthem isn't about it, it just isn't such a strong
symbol of who we are. In the US the flag is much more tied up in
the whole idea of the country. Hence it has more meaning to an
American to take a picture of the US flag. You don't see other
pictures like that because for other cultures the flag doen't mean
much. It gets trotted out at sporting events to mark which team you
are on but that's about it.

It also explains why a lot of people on here don't 'get' flag pictures.
Flags just don't mean as much to the rest of us as they do to a lot
of people in the US. Maybe this is a symplistic view of it, but
national pride/ origins etc to me just isn't anywhere in either a
St Andrews cross/ flag or a union jack. I can think of a load of
other symbols I'd use to present it, but it wouldn't be a flag.
08/22/2002 01:50:39 PM · #19
Actually lisae..I was going to use Australia as an example of the U.S. as far as hwo it was colonized and its ancestral history.

I can't explain exactly why the American Flag is such an icon.

Maybe it is that kids are brought up so heavily educated on the history and meaning of the flag. Or maybe it's the bold nature of the flag itself. All those stars and stripes and red, white and blue clashing lines etc..

Maybe its because our culture is such a melting pot of different cultures leaving behind their flags.

Maybe its the idea of the ragtag underdog scrapping his way through life until they get to be the big dog...a true rags to riches story come true.

But people willingly wrap themselves in the flag and all it's meanings in the United States. It seems very natural for folks, even recent immigrants to pick up on this idea.

I see similar things in other countries though contrary to what I see being said here.

I would bet if I came to Australia..took an Aussie flag...set it on fire in the middle of a town square and proceeded to rant about aussie's I might get a few black eyes! Don't know your laws there about the flag or public displays so I can't say what other stuff might happen to me.

I bet that would happen in any country though. However,I don't know too many countires that actually protect my right to do this.

I find it funny that people actually say people are different in one country or another. I don't see that as true. I see us all laugh and cry at a lot of the same things.

The ideas in our constitution were brought here by immigrants...albeit they are self evident :-)

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 1:51:31 PM.
08/22/2002 01:43:17 PM · #20
Well this thread has certainly covered a lot of ground... Let me throw my cup of kerosene on :)

On the horse ~ Yep, it was a stretch, but not any more of a stretch then we've seen before... My point wasn't "Man, he really nailed the challenge"... Just "Yep, it fits"...

On American subcultures ~ I am Scottish American... My wife is Chinesse American... Our cultural upbringing was VERY different... If we were to just define ourselves as American, it would leave out A LOT of who we actually are... The interesting part is that her family came over 5 generations ago while my grandparents were born in Scottland, yet every so often some idiot will tell her to "Go back where you came from" and call me a good American :) Life is strange :) On a personal note, I prefer to just be called an Earthling...

On the American flag ~ I am very likely bias on this point, but i think the American flag is one of the more photogenic flags around... I like other flags... But Betsy Ross had a really good eye for graphic design... On the patriotism side of it, I've often wondered why we don't see more flags from other countries... This is an international site, but we rarely see a flag other that the Stars and Stripes...

On nudity and the "Naked Pencil Guy" ~ Nudity can be art... Nudity can be pornographic... Art, like porn, is in the eye of the beholder... However, if we wish this site to remain open to everyone, including small children, we have to err on the safe side... There are legal definitions of pornography (although they are laughably vague) that the site admins need to keep in mind... I think they've done a steller job walking that fine line...

Spellcheckers ~ I really wish I had one for forums :)

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 1:47:42 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 1:54:53 PM.
08/22/2002 01:33:29 PM · #21
blue ridge is were it's at, hokie!!

i've read this thread with a lot of interest, and i have opinions (rather strong ones really) about a number of things mentioned. However, much to your relief, i am not going into them. i just want to address a couple of points --

Anti-Americanism: That is too strong a term, but i wanted to get your attention! It is not so much anti-american attitude, as an attitude that all americans are selfish and ignorant of the rest of world. some of us may be, but some of us are very aware of teh culturism of the world. this has been discussed ad nauseum before so end of my pence here.

Genealogy -- i think that is a habit that americans have gotten into in the last 10 or 15 years or so. it seems that people are african-american, chinese-american, and so forth. I for one have roots so deep in the town where i live now (back to the rev. war), i don't have that liberty. :-) i guess i would be italian-scotch-irish-german-german dutch-native american-african american. Nah, i'll just stick to american. :-)

Pornography -- I, like Sonifo and some others, have very strong views about this based on my personal religious beliefs. While I don't consider the naked jim toothpaste picture, or naked man crayon pic pornagraphy, it was definitely in bad taste, I think. Not because it was naked, but because it was tasteless. Kinda like the difference between naked and nude. I guess what i want to say, is if you herald nudity as a viable picture subject, and you want me to look at it objectively, i want the same consideration and respect for my child/flower/sunset/patriotic pictures. Deal? You may feel nudity is a valid subject. Fine. I consider children valid. Just as a bad picture of a child is a bad picture of a child, a bad picture of a nude is a bad picture of a nude, and i will score it low. NOT because it is nude, but because it is bad. There have been some partial nudes that were actually very well done, i think.

i have said enough, probably more, i think, than i needed to to begin with. Sorry for rambling. I jsut can't stay out of a good "argument!"
08/22/2002 01:21:15 PM · #22
Hokie - Places like Australia and New Zealand have also been recently settled by people from all over the world. There isn't much difference, historically speaking, between Australia and the US, except that we negotiated our independence from the UK and are still a constitutional monarchy. Most of our population is also formed from people who left Europe to start a better life. However, most were initially convicts, and then working class people wanting to escape the class system. These groups focussed all their efforts on creating a perfectly classless society, a paradise for workers, etc. Egalitarianism was the ultimate ideal.

But the upshot of all that here was that we like people to be modest, mediocre, ordinary, not to make a big fuss out of anything. We have things called the "tall poppy syndrome" and a "cultural cringe". We don't run around saying we're great or powerful, because we patently aren't... we'd much prefer to laugh at ourselves. We don't admire people who achieve in any endeavour other than sport. Wealth is seen is kind of vulgar here.

So although there's a lot of similarity, the kind of patriotism that Americans invest in their flag, symbolism, ideology, etc. is very bizarre to us. Our flag has the Union Jack in one corner, which I think is one reason why we don't invest much emotion into it. It's not entirely our flag. So kids here don't get brought up with that whole idea of saluting it, praying to it, whatever. I just don't "get" flag photos, and I never will, because I wasn't born in the US and I'll never move there for a better life - life here is good enough as it is :).
08/22/2002 12:35:26 PM · #23
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
[i]We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil.


I failed to see this lesson. The definition of pencil I read did not coincide with anything I saw in the horse photo. The 'Entomology' of the word PENCIL indicated that it was derived from a word that would have made the horse photo fit the challenge...

At best, it's a FAR stretch that would make that photo meet this challenge...
[/i]

Sorry setzler, I don't have a websters, I was just going on the 2 statements above, stating that it fit the definition. I actually have an oxford and it says nothing about it being derived from anything. My apologies. I'll stop listening to people now. LOL
08/22/2002 12:35:11 PM · #24
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
I just find it strange why people here are always trying to be from somewhere else, rather than saying they are American and proud of it. The
sort of 'born and bred' view of nationalism.

Its just different in the US.



I can understand what you are saying. But you know..it's not just you running into other folks trying to tie in their roots to European ancestry.

I travel a lot on the East Coast. Mainly between Atlanta and New York.

A lot of conversations center around "Where are you from...where did you go to school" type of stuff.

And I hear a lot of "I had a great grandmother that lived in Richmond, Virginia..do you know so and so" or "I went to Virginia Tech..do you remember so and so?".

I thinks it's just human nature to try and look for common ground.

You are just getting the Scottish version :-)

I also agree people don't have the roots in their local communities like they used to.

I am university educated and specialize in Media Relations. Not exactly something you can make a million dollars doing in Southwest, Virginia!

But I am from here..my ancestors settled in the Blue Ridge from Europe as did my wifes (She's the Scot in our family tree..). And I plan on being buried in the Blue Ridge. This attitude is very uncommon in modern day "move where the money is at" society.

In America nowadays I agree. People are very seldom 'from' where live. :-/





08/22/2002 12:34:29 PM · #25
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
[i]We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil.


I failed to see this lesson. The definition of pencil I read did not coincide with anything I saw in the horse photo. The 'Entomology' of the word PENCIL indicated that it was derived from a word that would have made the horse photo fit the challenge...

At best, it's a FAR stretch that would make that photo meet this challenge...
[/i]


I'd disagree, it makes it about one step away from the entirely literal
meaning of the challenge. After all, this is a photography site shouldn't
we be allowed some leaway for artistic interpretation of the subject ?

Now, if you want to discuss if it is an interesting picture, or well
taken or any of the artistic qualities then maybe I'd have a different
opinion, but it meets the challenge pretty easily.


It's also a slang usage e.g., the 'this'll put lead in your pencil'
phrase.




* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 12:47:13 PM.
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