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11/24/2004 12:10:24 PM · #1 |
| I like the idea also. I would give the photographer some feedback on thier photo from different points of view. |
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11/24/2004 11:16:49 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
I wonder... has anyone made the suggestion to have multiple voting scales, kinda like voting on Ice Skating:
Met Challenge: 1-10
Degree of Difficulty: 1-10
Composition: 1-10
Artistic: 1-10
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A variation of this idea: Rank photos as we do now, from 1-10. Also include optional scoring on the components of the entry (met challenge, etc). These optional boxes would NOT be used to compute the photo's final score, however, a summary of each component score would be shown in the final statistics. By making it optional, there would be no adverse impact regarding a large number of entries. Only those voters who want to take the time to rank the photo components would do so, just as is done now with comments.
This would aid both the photographer, by giving more cumulative information concerning the score, plus voters, by providing a means for comparing your score with that of others on an after-the-fact basis. |
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11/24/2004 11:08:59 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Serephyna:
As I find that most of the people here or either professionals or high caliber photographers I vote them that way. Very rarely if ever is your average joe submitting photos.
I am voting everyone for the quality I expect at the level the majority of the submitted are. |
Since I just signed up last week I can't speak to the level of photographer that is a member but I am an average joe and I wouldn't be at all shocked to see that most people out here are too.
Also consider the difference between an Open challenge, were anybody can stumble upon the site and contribute and a member challenge where now somebody is actually very interested in the goings on.
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11/24/2004 10:49:05 AM · #4 |
Hey, I like that idea. There are increbilbe great shots that are technical flawed and vica versa - Also it gives a better chance for those photographers out there that like to be artsy and tend to be mistaken for digital art.
I must admit. much of my work is in the 50-60 percentile,which is probably where it belongs, but it's tough to see photos scoring high that are so obviously not as good as one's own - and seeing incredible photos not even in the top 50.
Ironically my photos that are technically the worst, score higher than my better pictures. I actually had someone (on my highest scoring photo) tell me my photo was awful, and why bother to submit a photo that obviously will never win.
Originally posted by dwterry:
I wonder... has anyone made the suggestion to have multiple voting scales, kinda like voting on Ice Skating:
Met Challenge: 1-10
Degree of Difficulty: 1-10
Composition: 1-10
Artistic: 1-10
Then the servers could take all four numbers into consideration to give a final score. It would be nice to then see these values separately tallied in the end as well to give us feedback on what people liked and what we need to improve. |
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11/24/2004 10:31:41 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by rkligman:
I would vote against that, at least in the Open challenges. I try and leave a comment but for the Open categories, 600+ photos is a LOT to go through all by itself. |
I agree wholeheartedly.
I know it took me forever to vote this macro challenge. I believe well over an hour possibly close to two since I don't vote lightly being an artist. I now how it feels when you are proud of your work and someone shoots it down. But I can't leave comments for everyone. Plus some people may fear the reprecussions of voting low even if it may have earned it on their scale |
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11/24/2004 10:24:11 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by dartompkins:
Originally posted by dwterry:
[quote=dartompkins] On a scale of 1 through 10, 5.5 is average.
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Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
For me, a 5 is a mere snapshot. An average photo that someone off the street could take with no extra thought or care to the process.
To get below 5, you've got to either not meet the challenge, or blow the picture in some way (bad focus, exposure, really poor composition, etc).
To get above 5, you've got to show that you paid attention to details, maybe tried something different, excelled in some way that the average shooter would have missed.
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As I find that most of the people here or either professionals or high caliber photographers I vote them that way. Very rarely if ever is your average joe submitting photos.
I am voting everyone for the quality I expect at the level the majority of the submitted are. |
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11/24/2004 10:22:39 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by bestagents:
It is suggested in the guidelines that a voter leave a comment if they are voting 3 or less. perhaps ithe site could be modified to enforce that... |
I would vote against that, at least in the Open challenges. I try and leave a comment but for the Open categories, 600+ photos is a LOT to go through all by itself.
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11/24/2004 10:16:22 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by bestagents:
It is suggested in the guidelines that a voter leave a comment if they are voting 3 or less. perhaps ithe site could be modified to enforce that... |
I find when I do low I do have the tendency to tell them why I voted the way I did. I tell them what I would have liked to see in the photo to meet the challenge. Same with some of the ones I mark high. I usually (not everytime)tell them why I voted them high what I liked.
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11/24/2004 10:12:47 AM · #9 |
I like the suggestion of the multiple scale.
There are many pictures when I vote that I like but don't always feel they meet the challenge in the best way.
Also remember voting through 500+ pictures I try to leave the room for the ones I find spectacular in that they meet the challenge the way I decipher it, artistic, originality. If I do something low it's usually I dont feel that it meets the challenge. I may like the picture, everything is in focus and possibly artistic but short of the challenge.
Admittedly the group picture of people scored pretty low in my scale because it wasn't macro in how I define macro in pictures.
But as I look at each picture I use the exact same guidelines.
But also remember some people are moved more by landscapes some by people some by other things. |
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11/24/2004 09:47:33 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
I wonder... has anyone made the suggestion to have multiple voting scales, kinda like voting on Ice Skating:
Met Challenge: 1-10
Degree of Difficulty: 1-10
Composition: 1-10
Artistic: 1-10
Then the servers could take all four numbers into consideration to give a final score. It would be nice to then see these values separately tallied in the end as well to give us feedback on what people liked and what we need to improve. |
This suggestion has been discussed at depth.
See Thread |
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11/24/2004 09:24:13 AM · #11 |
I have yet to enter a challenge, but I enjoy viewing and voting on the submissions. Right or wrong, here is how I vote. As I move through the submissions, I pretty much have my finger on the 5 key. If a submission doesn't strike me as being above the ordinary, but is still nicely composed, lighting is good, focus, etc.. I give it a 5... (after all, it is "average"}. If the lighting or focus or composition is ho-hum... I move my finger to the left and it gets a 4. It takes a particularly "bad" photo for me to give anything below a 4. I don't recall ever giving a score of 1 or 2.
On the other hand, if something catches my eye {color, composition, lighting, subject matter, general appeal) I move my finger to the right and it gets a 6. Which is where I would have placed your submission. If the photo is particularly impressive... it gets a 7. Photos with a WOW factor will get an 8 or 9 depending on the amount of WOW! Rarely do I give a 10... not because a particular submission isn't perfect, I simply don't think I am knowledgeable enough yet to know what perfection is!
I rarely change my votes... I trust my first impressions, and feel that when I am voting, I am not really comparing submissions, but rather giving my vote based on initial impact. I figure that the best photos will bubble to the surface as a natural result of appealing to the majority of voters, regardless of the actual numbering scale they may use, as long as voters are consistent in whatever procedure they use.
Leigh
Message edited by author 2004-11-24 09:36:47. |
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11/24/2004 08:20:26 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by tristalisk:
I start with my initial veiwing of the photos and score them on impact. And separate the into 4 catagories. 4 boring, 5 avaverage, 6 above average, and 7 for high impact. I then go through and raise and lower thees scores |
My technique of scoring is not too unlike yours, with two exceptions.
Firstly, I don't think I've handed out any 1's yet (and precious few 2's and even 3'), although I really have no argument with doing so. IMO, the scale of 1-10 supports a low-score decision if you believe it is appropriate, and no apology should be required. I have, by the way, found myself giving more freely of higher (8-9-10) scores as I get the hang of DPC.
Secondly, although like you, I give a general score to group similar photos together on my first pass and then refine scores on subsequent viewings, I make an effort to avoid bumping scores downwardly... I have found in my limited experience as a "challenger" (for lack of a better word) that watching my score decline involves a bit of an "Ouch!". Rather, I grade strictly on my first pass, then more freely tend to bump scores up as I review. Even if, on a second look, I think a photo might should be bumped down a point, I don't do so, giving instead the benefit of the doubt since I saw it in a better light earlier. As they say, my 2c worth! |
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11/24/2004 07:54:47 AM · #13 |
I suppose my voting scale is a bit unusual and perhaps harsh. I start with my initial veiwing of the photos and score them on impact. And separate the into 4 catagories. 4 boring, 5 avaverage, 6 above average, and 7 for high impact. I then go through and raise and lower thees scores for technical aspects, creativity, and difficulty. I then go over them a third time raising my favorites and, lowering the ones I fell are just plain bad. I attempt at the end to have at least one 10. A couple of 9's and the closer I get to average 5 for me the more I have that fit in the range. I usaly end up with 1 or 2 two's. I alsousualy end up with one or two 2's. So They usualy balance out a bit over 5. I do give 1's but you almost have to shoot with the lens cap on.
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11/24/2004 06:19:01 AM · #14 |
I wonder... has anyone made the suggestion to have multiple voting scales, kinda like voting on Ice Skating:
Met Challenge: 1-10
Degree of Difficulty: 1-10
Composition: 1-10
Artistic: 1-10
Then the servers could take all four numbers into consideration to give a final score. It would be nice to then see these values separately tallied in the end as well to give us feedback on what people liked and what we need to improve.
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11/24/2004 05:08:01 AM · #15 |
Assuming that your only concern is a low numerical average, how about adjusting the voting on a curve? Adjust the scores so that the highest score comes out to 10 and the lowest would be adjusted upwards along with the average. This will make people feel better about themselves and prevent a common occurrence that disturbs me... non-ribboned photos having a higher score than blue ribbon photos in a photog's profile. I don't care which photo has the higher numerical value so much as which ones did the best in each challenge.
-Dan
Message edited by author 2004-11-24 05:08:20. |
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11/24/2004 03:33:41 AM · #16 |
//dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=121269
I got 130th place :/ Some of my fav. photos were BELOW me, I was shocked
I got 4 1's 9 2's and 13 3's...I admit I was a little disapointed...but it was a 5-6 photo and scored that way!
No offence to the winners, there were some great photos but I don't think alot of the fokus was on the shadows and thought that went into the picture, alot of "cute" snapshots in the top 30 scored very high and alot of GREAT photos with shadows and contrast that I voted high on that scored very very low...! congrats ya'll |
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11/24/2004 03:28:33 AM · #17 |
Philip,
Brilliant advice. If everyone used your common sense guide to voting, all would be well and we would not have to pass this way again. Your voting method would be the perfect advice to any newbie. |
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11/24/2004 03:25:32 AM · #18 |
I agree with your comment about consistency, GeneralE.
Sadly, there is a perception that to score others low makes one somehow superior. I see it in teaching all the time. Poor teachers give harsh grades to cover for their own insecurities. It makes them feel some sort of pathetic power, or perhaps they don't think others see through their transparent charade and hollow pretense.
If a person votes true to a set of guidelines, and remains consistent, then that is probably the best a site like this can be expected to do. |
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11/24/2004 03:17:26 AM · #19 |
Thanks for starting this thread, Darlene, since this is something I've wondered about as well. The ultimate answer, as several people pointed out, is that percentile is all that really matters since it reflects how voters rated your photo compared to all the others in any given challenge.
But it is true that 5.5 is the numerical average of a 1-10 scale, and knowing that has made my voting much easier. After I take all of a photo's good and bad points into consideration, I ask myself whether or not I think the photo is above or below average overall. If it's above average, it gets a 6 or better. If it's below average, it gets a 5 or lower. This makes rating photos so much easier for me.
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11/24/2004 03:13:17 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by bestagents:
It is suggested in the guidelines that a voter leave a comment if they are voting 3 or less. perhaps ithe site could be modified to enforce that... |
It can't ... we've discussed the pros and cons and various methods "quite a bit" over the last couple of years. : )
I think the best thing is to accept that we will never always vote by the same scale, since photos mean different things to each of us and we each see differently. I only ask that people vote consistently by whatever criteria/method they choose. |
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11/24/2004 02:56:56 AM · #21 |
| It is suggested in the guidelines that a voter leave a comment if they are voting 3 or less. perhaps ithe site could be modified to enforce that... |
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11/24/2004 02:48:27 AM · #22 |
From experience with statistics while writing my Masters thesis, I learned you can slice and dice statistics any which way you please; however, most of the photos on this site are NOT at the bad end of the spectrum. Whatever the reason, it certainly is not motivating to receive scores that rank your work at a 1, 2, or 3.
I suggested a voting section in the guide someone was suggesting for newbies. I mentioned it should address not only technical issues but also artistic issues: composition, color, light and shadow, motif, focal point, symbolism etc... so that new members know what to look for. I was shot down with the explanation that it would be too overwhelming or complicated for newbies. Excuse me, but aren't they voting? Just what are they using as a guide when they vote? Oh well, its not my site. |
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11/24/2004 02:38:19 AM · #23 |
OK, where's Laurie?
She would be having fits with this one...
:)
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11/24/2004 02:25:08 AM · #24 |
| You are confusing a numerical average (5.5 in this case) with a voted average. A lot of people have different standards for their voting and different scales. The overall average for b&w II was 5.1, which is lower than 5.5. Statistically, the average seems to hover right around 5 overall. So, yours may be slightly below average, but is still fairly close. |
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11/24/2004 02:20:10 AM · #25 |
As a new member, I believe that there probably should be some sort of guideline for the voting. Not rules, just suggestions. It's confusing to figure out how to rate the photos when you're starting out. I'm starting to get in somewhat of a groove in my voting and it corresponds to two of the comments here.
First and foremost, did the picture meet the topic?
If it did not then that will cost 1,2 or 3 points off the score. If it did meet the topic and you have an in focus picture then you get at least a 5. I'll move up and down from there.
My Time Passing image has an avg. of 4.5 right now. I'm a bit confused because 4.5 indicates it is a slightly bad photo. It certainly met the topic goal and I will be the first to admit that is a completely average photo. It's not repulsive, it's semi interesting but certainly not flashy. I would have expected an avg. score on that photo of about 5.5 with the main scores being 5 and 6's. Apparently I'm getting a fair number of 3's. That doesn't seem right. Just my 2 cents...
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