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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Voting Participation: a Big Issue Right Now
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Showing posts 1 - 25 of 77, descending (reverse)
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07/14/2017 11:30:59 PM · #1
Originally posted by RKT:

How do we get people to vote? I don't know. But Nobody is right, we need more fun. I really miss the side challenges we used to have. It would be nice to start one again, and keep it going for an entire month. Maybe even voting side challenge/thread just to remind each other to vote...like the score threads. I know I'll keep voting and keep on trying to move up that top 50 statistic page.

All those happy things happen because individuals decide to get the ball rolling and other individuals join the fun. Be great to see more of that, you bet!
07/14/2017 11:21:30 PM · #2
Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by Nobody:

Encourage more participation from those seriously interested, and try to bring the fun back.


I've been here the same (bakers) dozen years as Nobody, and completely agree with his assessment.
However, what I will add is that we DO have a sense of community and friendship. I don't think that will go away.


I agree with you both. SO how do we encourage more participation from the remaining community? Is too many challenges really the problem? And how do we get more members to vote and comment?


Well said. The community and friendship is the one thing we have here at DPC over any other site. The reason I wanted my original challenge suggestion thread locked, after I quickly realized the error of my way, has basically happened in this thread...death spirals and empty bars, etc., etc. I have cozied into DPC after trying to leave it almost a year ago. I couldn't stay away even a year. I enjoy the challenges, the way they inspire something new , something I may never have tried. I missed voting...and Ken came back. Ken is fun. Sometimes when my mind has a spare moment, I try to think of things that might help things here at DPC, hence my suggestion the other day. At least I tried. I have no stomach for complaining with no remedy.

How do we get people to vote? I don't know. But Nobody is right, we need more fun. I really miss the side challenges we used to have. It would be nice to start one again, and keep it going for an entire month. Maybe even voting side challenge/thread just to remind each other to vote...like the score threads. I know I'll keep voting and keep on trying to move up that top 50 statistic page.
07/14/2017 11:09:32 PM · #3
Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by glad2badad:


dpreview.com is also very active.


Dang!

I started out there.


DPreview seems half as active as their hey day too. They're just spitting out re-links of different articles, one after another. And not very good ones. Facebook and Instagram have taken a big bite out of forums and a plethora of other photo challenge (more like contest) sites have popped up. I mean, I still can't believe there is no IMDB forum anymore.

The folks here is what makes DPC special. Home is where the heart is. I've been too preoccupied with work and personal projects to post but I check in. My membership expires in two weeks. I'll re-new. I do feel a bit overwhelmed with the amount of challenges posted. My first impression was, like wow. I was never one to do well in FS challenges in general. I liked to be boxed in somewhat for creativity and focus.

I think the DPL will bring some fun in and more traffic onto the site. Though I most likely will have to sit the next one out, if there is one.
07/14/2017 10:30:05 PM · #4
I only submitted to one challenge in the last 6 years before becoming a paid member on a whim less than 2 months ago. Since then I've entered a number of challenges and have noticed many of the same issues described here. I will admit that I'm one of those who doesn't vote in challenges I enter. Maybe it's because I'm an auditor and "conflict of interest" always comes to mind. :) But I've always seemed to notice, wrongly or not, that the first votes any of my entries receive are usually much lower than the ending score. I've always thought that others who have entered might downvote their competition in order to give their shot a better chance. Same usually goes for the last day of voting. Could be that I'm imagining things, but I'd rather just not vote than fall into that practice myself.

I'd like to see more users participating too, but don't see that happening unless the site is completely rebuilt from scratch. The current site is too circa 2004 for it to attract many new users.
07/14/2017 08:59:49 PM · #5
I agree... so we can have DPL.

Then, switch it back to two weeks, if people want it.

I don't care either way.
07/14/2017 08:54:01 PM · #6
Originally posted by glad2badad:

I suggest going backwards to go forward. The two week challenge period screwed up the code base for running DPL. Flip the challenge format back and run DPL again.
07/14/2017 08:00:50 PM · #7
Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by Nobody:

Encourage more participation from those seriously interested, and try to bring the fun back.


I've been here the same (bakers) dozen years as Nobody, and completely agree with his assessment.
However, what I will add is that we DO have a sense of community and friendship. I don't think that will go away.


I agree with you both. SO how do we encourage more participation from the remaining community? Is too many challenges really the problem? And how do we get more members to vote and comment?
07/14/2017 07:16:57 PM · #8
Originally posted by Nobody:

I have been around here for a dozen years. While my interest and participation has waxed and waned, I have been around long enough to make the following observations.

1) There was a lot more to the site than just challenges and votes. The forums used to be very active, and topics wouldn't last an hour or two before dropping off the front page.

2) We had so much participation at one point that we had to double the number of challenges run each week, and you were limited to entering one or the other, but not both.

3) I met a lot of nice people and learned a lot.

4) I have seen a fair amount of feelings hurt, either by bullying or by those taking themselves to seriously. I took about a 6-9 month break for these reasons, and frankly never really got my enthusiasm back after that.

Opinions:
1) In the early days, a lot of people participated in order to get their photos visible to others and hopefully receive positive feedback. Facebook and Instagram provide that same outlet now without scoring judgement and without challenge criteria. This group of participants won't be back. We don't have anything tangible to offer.

2) There have been periods of great negativity in the forums that have driven people away. To thrive, this needs to become fun again.

3) There are too many challenges now. It dilutes the pool of entries. And while I realize that four challenges with 50 entries require the same number of votes as a single challenge with 200, I find myself more likely to vote on one or possibly two challenges, but never all of them.

In summary, I think that Facebook and Instagram have taken most of the casual/beginner pool of photographers away and we won't see them come back. Rather than focusing on volume, I think it would be better to focus on serving a smaller, more dedicated pool of photographers. Encourage more participation from those seriously interested, and try to bring the fun back.


I've been here the same (bakers) dozen years as Nobody, and completely agree with his assessment.
However, what I will add is that we DO have a sense of community and friendship. I don't think that will go away.
07/14/2017 04:33:06 PM · #9
I have been around here for a dozen years. While my interest and participation has waxed and waned, I have been around long enough to make the following observations.

1) There was a lot more to the site than just challenges and votes. The forums used to be very active, and topics wouldn't last an hour or two before dropping off the front page.

2) We had so much participation at one point that we had to double the number of challenges run each week, and you were limited to entering one or the other, but not both.

3) I met a lot of nice people and learned a lot.

4) I have seen a fair amount of feelings hurt, either by bullying or by those taking themselves to seriously. I took about a 6-9 month break for these reasons, and frankly never really got my enthusiasm back after that.

Opinions:
1) In the early days, a lot of people participated in order to get their photos visible to others and hopefully receive positive feedback. Facebook and Instagram provide that same outlet now without scoring judgement and without challenge criteria. This group of participants won't be back. We don't have anything tangible to offer.

2) There have been periods of great negativity in the forums that have driven people away. To thrive, this needs to become fun again.

3) There are too many challenges now. It dilutes the pool of entries. And while I realize that four challenges with 50 entries require the same number of votes as a single challenge with 200, I find myself more likely to vote on one or possibly two challenges, but never all of them.

In summary, I think that Facebook and Instagram have taken most of the casual/beginner pool of photographers away and we won't see them come back. Rather than focusing on volume, I think it would be better to focus on serving a smaller, more dedicated pool of photographers. Encourage more participation from those seriously interested, and try to bring the fun back.

07/14/2017 03:56:34 PM · #10
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Those "other sites", for the most part, seem to use their competitions to drive and hold traffic. For them, the sort of micromanagement of rules & challenges we engage in would be counter-productive. I'm not aware of anyone else that uses a model like ours to create a friendly, casual photo competition site with a lot of give and take between members but no profit-driven motivation for existing. We're not what we used to be, and it may be because we're now just as archaic as, say, hippies are, but they (and we) still exist and it's sort of cool don'tcha think?


It is cool! I try other sites, but find this is still my favorite (and the only one I pay for!). Of course, I'm archaic too, so maybe that has something to do with it...
07/14/2017 03:46:37 PM · #11
Those "other sites", for the most part, seem to use their competitions to drive and hold traffic. For them, the sort of micromanagement of rules & challenges we engage in would be counter-productive. I'm not aware of anyone else that uses a model like ours to create a friendly, casual photo competition site with a lot of give and take between members but no profit-driven motivation for existing. We're not what we used to be, and it may be because we're now just as archaic as, say, hippies are, but they (and we) still exist and it's sort of cool don'tcha think?
07/14/2017 03:03:25 PM · #12
I tried fredmiranda (without paying) and found it difficult to upload images. This week I looked at ViewBug and dpreview. Both let you pull photos from your portfolio, so no incentive to actually go shoot. Voting on dpreview is more time consuming than here.

I haven't seen any processing restrictions on other sites, which does let each photographer decide how to create his/her best image and show their best work.
07/13/2017 11:47:09 PM · #13
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by glad2badad:


dpreview.com is also very active.


Dang!

I started out there.

I've gone there a handful of times, mostly for equipment reviews.


Quite interesting...

They limit the amount of entries.

07/13/2017 11:38:26 PM · #14
Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by glad2badad:


dpreview.com is also very active.


Dang!

I started out there.

I've gone there a handful of times, mostly for equipment reviews.
07/13/2017 11:30:50 PM · #15
Originally posted by glad2badad:


dpreview.com is also very active.


Dang!

I started out there.

07/13/2017 10:50:38 PM · #16
I thought the original intent of this thread was to discuss how to encourage more voting (and maybe commenting) from the people who are already here. If I were a new member and entered a challenge to realize that hardly anyone participates once the entries go in, I don't think I'd last very long. I wish I could offer a viable solution because it's driving people away.
07/13/2017 06:54:08 PM · #17
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...they don't see any meaningful photographic action in the forums. It is possible that if we could revive the meaningful forum activity somehow this would drive increased participation.


It's true. If photographic discussion were rainfall, the forums would be the Atacama Desert. If anyone wants to see what active discussion looks like, go over to the fredmiranda.com forums.


dpreview.com is also very active.
07/13/2017 05:15:27 PM · #18
Is there anyway to get us featured in a good photography magazine? Would anyone be willing to write up a couple articles and submit them? Get people to read about us...so we can tell them what our journey has been? Not to feature one person but several different POV's?

ETA: What does it cost to be an advertiser on FB?

Message edited by author 2017-07-13 17:20:05.
07/13/2017 03:59:57 PM · #19
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...they don't see any meaningful photographic action in the forums. It is possible that if we could revive the meaningful forum activity somehow this would drive increased participation.


It's true. If photographic discussion were rainfall, the forums would be the Atacama Desert. If anyone wants to see what active discussion looks like, go over to the fredmiranda.com forums.
07/13/2017 03:54:51 PM · #20
Originally posted by GolferDDS:

randomly looked at the new registered users from January 1 2017 to now. There are almost 500 new registered members. Practically none of them have entered any contests, made any comments, or voted on any contests. Some of them are personally advertising their own businesses. So what is the purpose of accumulating bodies if they do not participate?

Well, NO purpose at all, but the key to marketing, if someone could undertake it, would be to bring in bodies who WANT to participate. It's also possible that some of the new bodies are disinclined to participate simply because they don't see any meaningful photographic action in the forums. It is possible that if we could revive the meaningful forum activity somehow this would drive increased participation.
07/13/2017 01:59:19 PM · #21


That's about it unless and until any of the constraints change. The sad fact is that eventually the aging roof will collapse on this place and it will be uninhabitable.

But until then, CHEERS! :D [/quote]

That is too bad.

I randomly looked at the new registered users from January 1 2017 to now. There are almost 500 new registered members. Practically none of them have entered any contests, made any comments, or voted on any contests. Some of them are personally advertising their own businesses. So what is the purpose of accumulating bodies if they do not participate?
07/13/2017 01:40:15 PM · #22
Originally posted by skewsme:

but it's not a money losing venture.
server space and admin/maintenance do not cost that much in my experience.
and plus, there is on site advertising bringing in additional revenue.
....it makes just enough to warrant inertia inaction.

I'd agree with that, but with the one change.

Originally posted by GolferDDS:

This would not be popular but raise the subscription rate. Sure, you would lose some people, but you would retain the ones that care the most and you could then finance some other improvements. Ultimately, it would pay for itself.

This would be the worst thing he could do.
-------------------

As far as I can tell, the constraints we have to work with are:
- Langdon will maintain the status quo and is not interested in letting go at least until the site reaches the tipping point financially.
- Nothing in the site's UI or functionality will likely ever change
- We can't force participation

The only thing I've seen that would-be/have-been positive for participation is the DPL and that seemed to be something that can be run without Langdon's involvement (other than Barry's suggestion below).

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I suggest going backwards to go forward. The two week challenge period screwed up the code base for running DPL. Flip the challenge format back and run DPL again.


That's about it unless and until any of the constraints change. The sad fact is that eventually the aging roof will collapse on this place and it will be uninhabitable.

But until then, CHEERS! :D
07/13/2017 01:39:13 PM · #23
Originally posted by Tiny:

Originally posted by GolferDDS:

This would not be popular but raise the subscription rate. Sure, you would lose some people, but you would retain the ones that care the most and you could then finance some other improvements. Ultimately, it would pay for itself.


Or lose the subscription and get more ads..


I'm not opposed to this idea of having an ad or two on the site. If that's what it takes to generate an income for a developer to make a mobile friendly version of the site then so be it. Besides, I don't mind shopping for new camera gear here and there. ;)
07/13/2017 01:33:54 PM · #24
Originally posted by GolferDDS:

This would not be popular but raise the subscription rate. Sure, you would lose some people, but you would retain the ones that care the most and you could then finance some other improvements. Ultimately, it would pay for itself.


Or lose the subscription and get more ads..
07/13/2017 01:31:08 PM · #25
Ah, yes. This discussion has been ongoing almost ever since DPC started.

Still, when we review langdon's initial statement:

DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed.

In December 2002, we released the 2nd version of our site with a number of new features, including concurrent challenges. We also added site membership as a way to support our ever-growing physical and time demands.


Sometimes, there is lots of participation, sometimes not so much.
Some version of this thread crops up occasionally.
But the site continues.

As long as langdon has the patience to keep the site going, those who continue with the site have the opportunity to become better photographers.

(I like the idea of *almost empty bars* for a Challenge topic.)
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