| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/11/2016 03:34:45 AM · #1 |
Originally posted by nygold:
This turned in to a comedy routine.
Now my ribs hurt. |
yea you can always get a larf here |
|
|
|
03/10/2016 08:59:19 PM · #2 |
This turned in to a comedy routine.
Now my ribs hurt. |
|
|
|
03/10/2016 06:51:27 PM · #3 |
It would go a long way towards helping site morale if rather than voice these "feelings" of unfairness and voting shenanigans in the forums, you alerted SC directly. Then we can look into it if you have a specific concern. As Ray noted, we take this sort of thing very seriously, and people have been suspended and even banned for improper voting.
Oh, and welcome back, Richard. |
|
|
|
03/10/2016 06:35:36 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
...
Well, we're not quite dead, but Ray, you are quite right. Attrition is a very complex issue, having more to do with what is happening out there than what is going on in here.
And Ray is also correct in that consistent voting - regardless of the average score given - is not an issue. |
Okay, if the SC has cleared the the lowball voter of alleged friend/foe voting, then I'll accept your premise. I really don't care, although I did renew my membership for another year. |
|
|
|
03/10/2016 06:12:09 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My DPC renewal is March 30, 2016. For the first time in ten years, I an considering letting my membership lapse. The deciding factor has been learning about the race to the bottom in voting by several contributors to this thread. It is a serious deterioration in the environment. It will kill the site. |
I have always had a problem with unsubstantiated generalizations such as this one.
If you do have something concrete to bring to the fore, then bring it to the attention of the SC and I am certain that they will deal with the miscreant(s) accordingly.
Just another man's view of the situation.
Ray |
The Site Council will do nothing to help. In this thread, a member presents the theory that his 4.4 scoring summary is "average". When the site has a bunch of low ball voters, who happily receive higher scores from the rest of us, results will be skewed. It will kill the site. |
You still did not address the specifics,that being that according to your beliefs, some are deliberately scoring low nby several contributors. All you have advanced so far is mere speculation, totally devoid of even one scintilla of proof.
The SC would do nothing you say... I vividly recall a few occasions where people were not only outed but they were banned... what say you to that?
As far as the 4.4 score being a theory... it is not a theory at all since the person you allude to clearly delineated the reasons for his scoring. You may not like the scores he doles out, but if he is consistent, (and I am certain that he is) then the scores he does mete out have no bearing whatsoever on the final placements...there is ABSOLUTELY no skewing of results in this kind of scenario and most definitely is not the root cause of the gradual indifference being experienced by this venue.
It may come as a shock to some, but there are many venues out there that compete for the attention of all of us and we only have so much time to deal with all that is being profferred. As a personal example, I rather like to travel and as such I am normally away from home for several months of the year and truth be told, submitting images to this site really is not a top priority for me... never has been.
The death of this site is most definitely not attributable to what you consider the root cause...it is a tad more involved than that.
Ray |
Well, we're not quite dead, but Ray, you are quite right. Attrition is a very complex issue, having more to do with what is happening out there than what is going on in here.
And Ray is also correct in that consistent voting - regardless of the average score given - is not an issue.
|
|
|
|
03/10/2016 05:36:41 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My DPC renewal is March 30, 2016. For the first time in ten years, I an considering letting my membership lapse. The deciding factor has been learning about the race to the bottom in voting by several contributors to this thread. It is a serious deterioration in the environment. It will kill the site. |
I have always had a problem with unsubstantiated generalizations such as this one.
If you do have something concrete to bring to the fore, then bring it to the attention of the SC and I am certain that they will deal with the miscreant(s) accordingly.
Just another man's view of the situation.
Ray |
The Site Council will do nothing to help. In this thread, a member presents the theory that his 4.4 scoring summary is "average". When the site has a bunch of low ball voters, who happily receive higher scores from the rest of us, results will be skewed. It will kill the site. |
You still did not address the specifics,that being that according to your beliefs, some are deliberately scoring low nby several contributors. All you have advanced so far is mere speculation, totally devoid of even one scintilla of proof.
The SC would do nothing you say... I vividly recall a few occasions where people were not only outed but they were banned... what say you to that?
As far as the 4.4 score being a theory... it is not a theory at all since the person you allude to clearly delineated the reasons for his scoring. You may not like the scores he doles out, but if he is consistent, (and I am certain that he is) then the scores he does mete out have no bearing whatsoever on the final placements...there is ABSOLUTELY no skewing of results in this kind of scenario and most definitely is not the root cause of the gradual indifference being experienced by this venue.
It may come as a shock to some, but there are many venues out there that compete for the attention of all of us and we only have so much time to deal with all that is being profferred. As a personal example, I rather like to travel and as such I am normally away from home for several months of the year and truth be told, submitting images to this site really is not a top priority for me... never has been.
The death of this site is most definitely not attributable to what you consider the root cause...it is a tad more involved than that.
Ray
|
|
|
|
03/09/2016 09:16:30 PM · #7 |
| remember: on a scale of 1-10, average is 5.5, not 5.0. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 08:38:56 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by gipper11:
Your average is 5.2 which isn't that much different than 4.4 +/- |
It's almost 20% higher ... and the difference between "barely below average" and "quite a bit below average" ... |
Hey now, that's my scoring range you're talking about. The scores I get, not the ones I give! :-) |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 08:04:15 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by gipper11:
Your average is 5.2 which isn't that much different than 4.4 +/- |
It's almost 20% higher ... and the difference between "barely below average" and "quite a bit below average" ... |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 07:41:03 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My DPC renewal is March 30, 2016. For the first time in ten years, I an considering letting my membership lapse. The deciding factor has been learning about the race to the bottom in voting by several contributors to this thread. It is a serious deterioration in the environment. It will kill the site. |
I have always had a problem with unsubstantiated generalizations such as this one.
If you do have something concrete to bring to the fore, then bring it to the attention of the SC and I am certain that they will deal with the miscreant(s) accordingly.
Just another man's view of the situation.
Ray |
The Site Council will do nothing to help. In this thread, a member presents the theory that his 4.4 scoring summary is "average". When the site has a bunch of low ball voters, who happily receive higher scores from the rest of us, results will be skewed. It will kill the site. |
Your average is 5.2 which isn't that much different than 4.4 +/-
|
|
|
|
03/09/2016 07:09:55 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Lately I haven't voted much and I haven't entered much, and as the quality of what's shown here gets worse so will my participation. Its like DPC was a magazine that I used to read and enjoy from cover to cover but now I have to flick threw to the very back to find anything worth a read at all. |
you and me both.
|
|
|
|
03/09/2016 06:40:14 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by hahn23:
My DPC renewal is March 30, 2016. For the first time in ten years, I an considering letting my membership lapse. The deciding factor has been learning about the race to the bottom in voting by several contributors to this thread. It is a serious deterioration in the environment. It will kill the site. |
I have always had a problem with unsubstantiated generalizations such as this one.
If you do have something concrete to bring to the fore, then bring it to the attention of the SC and I am certain that they will deal with the miscreant(s) accordingly.
Just another man's view of the situation.
Ray |
The Site Council will do nothing to help. In this thread, a member presents the theory that his 4.4 scoring summary is "average". When the site has a bunch of low ball voters, who happily receive higher scores from the rest of us, results will be skewed. It will kill the site. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 06:01:51 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
My DPC renewal is March 30, 2016. For the first time in ten years, I an considering letting my membership lapse. The deciding factor has been learning about the race to the bottom in voting by several contributors to this thread. It is a serious deterioration in the environment. It will kill the site. |
I have always had a problem with unsubstantiated generalizations such as this one.
If you do have something concrete to bring to the fore, then bring it to the attention of the SC and I am certain that they will deal with the miscreant(s) accordingly.
Just another man's view of the situation.
Ray |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 10:29:54 AM · #14 |
One thing that is giving me renewed interest in DPC is the Monthly Expert Free Study. Keywords being Expert, & Free. I can do what I'm interested in & submit it to find out if anyone else at all is interested. That works very well for me as I have little to no interest in camera technology, or traditional photography. I'm more interested in the process of turning a capture into something I like.
I think the answer is fewer rules, fewer requirements. The rules I like are that it must be shot by the submitter, and during the challenge period. No limits on the number of originals. Voting is optional, commenting is optional & I like it like that.
How interesting would it be if each of us could submit the work we like. Maybe some trends would show up & we could spend our time debating which new trends are going to last. Argue about the future of photography & photographs, if there is one.
This site is like a corner bar. At one time in my life I worked with a backstage crew at a theatre & when we got off work at midnight or so, we had a corner bar we closed down almost every night on our way home. We were wired & tired & in no mood to do anything but stay together & decompress. The bar knew us & catered to us & remembered our names & our favorites. I remember occasionally the door would open & a stranger would walk in. We would all look at him or her, wondering who they were, & of course they left pretty quickly. None of them ever spoke up to criticize the way the bar was run, or our choices in alcoholic beverage. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 08:42:40 AM · #15 |
| I hate to beat a dead horse, but I think if voting (in some capacity) were required in order to participate, this would be a better place. There are a handful of people who put a lot of effort into this site, entering, voting, commenting, awarding, SiteCounciling... just think what this place could be if we ALL did even some portion of that! Just sticking an entry into a competition and then looking at the results a week later has, IMHO, an awful lot to do with why this site is failing. If everyone who enters would just VIEW the other entries (and I don't mean just the ones that wind up on the front page), and try to vote or comment on them, I believe the quality of the images in the galleries would improve overall. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 08:27:30 AM · #16 |
I think Paul is right about what John said, and to a degree I can relate to John's analogy. There was a forum of like-minded musicians that I started participating in back in the late 90's that formed out of people sick and tired of the noise and abuse of some of the more popular places available at the time. One person opened the door and likened it to a corner bar where you're either known or in the wrong place. It was invitation only and friends were brought in one at a time. It lasted 15 years and was one of the few places I continually visited. At some point the mood changed. It was subtle, like when someone in the neighborhood who you never paid much attention to moves away and you suddenly realize that they were the one who brought you all together. One by one people paid their long standing tabs and disappeared. Today the bar's still open but doesn't seem to pour more than a drink or two a day on the busiest days. I suspect that's what's happening here. Long time regulars continue to stop in on occasion for a pop and to catch up, but it's hard not to care so much any more.
I've enjoyed most of my 2 years here, but when my tab comes due in May I suspect that if little changes I'll be tabbing out. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 06:22:43 AM · #17 |
I don't think John was commenting on him not winning anymore per se, just that he has moved on to another aesthetic and that this is less compatible with the stuff that gets 'rewarded' through the scoring system. However, I have to say the image currently in the middle of the front page:
challenges that notion. I'm particularly impressed that the photographer concerned has stepped outside of their normal choices for submission, offered up this outstanding image AND has been rewarded by a DPC collective that (we often choose to believe, with some justification) rewards images that conform to something less interpretative. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 05:56:25 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Yesterday I was contacted by a local restaurant owner and his architect, they are remodelling and were interested in hanging my photos on the walls, they want big format and in aluminium. I started by showing them my portfolio, because I show and sell in the area they already knew of my work and they immediately asked for the more traditional stuff, the kind of crap I would shoot 5 years ago. This got me thinking about DPC, it's the same situation, to do well I have to show the photos that I no longer have any feeling for whatsoever. Maybe a while ago I would have just been happy that folks walk into a restaurant and say "wow that's john's work" even if it is what I consider my worst work, now though I'd rather not be hung there at all. The difference with DPC compared to the restaurant is that this place has a little obscure room for people like me, it's right at the back and hardly anyone goes but at least it's there.
Lately I haven't voted much and I haven't entered much, and as the quality of what's shown here gets worse so will my participation. Its like DPC was a magazine that I used to read and enjoy from cover to cover but now I have to flick threw to the very back to find anything worth a read at all. |
I'm not sure that's fair at all. Perhaps to do well on everything, like you used to. But I see a number of top ten and ribbon entries in the last 20-30 which definitely weren't your typical. You're just not winning all the time anymore. As for the quality getting worse -- it ebbs and flows. But I think there's more diversity in the field than there used to be. It's just a smaller field.
The magazine analogy is fair, though. If we no longer suit your needs, it's sad, but understandable. Tastes change quite a bit over the years. Perhaps that's my problem. I still like the old stuff I've shot as much as the new. Whether better or worse, there were reasons, and I appreciate the thoughts and the reasons and the (yes, it's corny) love that went into the shots. I can't really see them critically, because I remember all the feelings about them.
Am I happy with them? No. I've never been contented with my work. It's not the incredibly wonderful, artistic crap that I'd like to do and haven't figured out yet.
So I stick around, thinking perhaps I'll find it yet. |
|
|
|
03/09/2016 02:39:35 AM · #19 |
Yesterday I was contacted by a local restaurant owner and his architect, they are remodelling and were interested in hanging my photos on the walls, they want big format and in aluminium. I started by showing them my portfolio, because I show and sell in the area they already knew of my work and they immediately asked for the more traditional stuff, the kind of crap I would shoot 5 years ago. This got me thinking about DPC, it's the same situation, to do well I have to show the photos that I no longer have any feeling for whatsoever. Maybe a while ago I would have just been happy that folks walk into a restaurant and say "wow that's john's work" even if it is what I consider my worst work, now though I'd rather not be hung there at all. The difference with DPC compared to the restaurant is that this place has a little obscure room for people like me, it's right at the back and hardly anyone goes but at least it's there.
Lately I haven't voted much and I haven't entered much, and as the quality of what's shown here gets worse so will my participation. Its like DPC was a magazine that I used to read and enjoy from cover to cover but now I have to flick threw to the very back to find anything worth a read at all.
|
|
|
|
03/09/2016 12:08:02 AM · #20 |
I don't vote any more and haven't for some time. The reason? Very little worth voting on. And since you have to vote a certain percentage for your vote to count, there usually hasn't been enough "worthy" to justify the time of voting on the rest. And if I was going to take the time to vote on a few, I did feel enough commitment to vote on all of them and not just the required percentage.
In the early days there were a lot more "worthy" images posted on DPC. And not just in the challenges either. There were a lot of threads of things people did, including tutorials on how they did them. But there were plenty of images in the contests to get me to vote and comment (although not knowing if the comment was going to be like stepping on a dog turd or really appreciated got tiring).
I use to at least look at most contests to see if it was worth voting but I don't even do that any more. I just wait until the front page shows who won and those that were close. Sometimes I think I'd have voted well on them and sometimes I don't think I would.
It is a bit ironic though... back years ago when I voted, it was sometimes a real chore to get through sometimes several hundred entries and get them all voted. Now there are relatively few entries, which would make voting much faster and I have no desire to.
Threads like this have been around as long as I have... we just don't have Art posting the popcorn picture anymore.
DPC... it is what it is, it just isn't what it was.
Mike
Message edited by author 2016-03-09 00:08:20. |
|
|
|
03/08/2016 09:28:47 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
and in the end
the art you make
is equal to the art
you make |
Now that song is stuck in my head! |
|
|
|
03/08/2016 09:12:00 PM · #22 |
and in the end
the art you make
is equal to the art
you make |
|
|
|
03/08/2016 09:02:26 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Mike:
huh, I've never seen a thread about this topic before. |
LOL!
There can never be any consensus on scoring because each of us uses our own formula to arrive at our scoring system. The system requires us to consider technical acumen (light, composition, color, pov, etc.), subject matter, originality, theme-relation, etc., etc., and temper all of that with personal taste. And then each of these things are weighted differently by each person. Some value originality above all else. Others cannot abide an image with any technical flaws. Others will not value anything that does not strictly adhere to the challenge theme.
And finally, we have to assign the image a number that we feel best reflects our computations. And even this is a personal choice, with some only using the bottom three numbers, others the top three numbers, still others the middle 5 numbers, and a few using all the numbers.
To get hung up on these numbers is pointless. |
|
|
|
03/08/2016 07:18:07 PM · #24 |
huh, I've never seen a thread about this topic before.
|
|
|
|
03/08/2016 07:11:32 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Gipper 11 wrote
I agree totally, there are entries that deserve 8-10 , 5-7, 4 and some deserve lower. I looked at my average and it is 4.4 not by design but just the way it seems to have turned out.
4.4 is a very low voting average. It is not something to be proud of. |
Actually I don't think it's that low, I think it's more like the average. As I said above there are excellent photographs, there are good photographs, there are below average photographs and there are poor photographs. I vote the way I see the photograph and I'm not going to pump it up just to make the person feel good. When you vote just to make someone feel good you are not doing the person who has the superior photograph any favors and you're not assisting the person who needs help. Anyway each person has their vote and they can use it the way they want. When I give a very low vote I try to leave a comment with it.
|
|
