Why all of the Expert Challenges?! :-(

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/21/2015 03:38:07 PM · #1

Originally posted by GeneralE:

To say that someone doesn't "like" a particular style of photograph and tends to (logically enough) vote lower on those than on photos one "likes" is an opinion, and is not an insult of either the genre or the photographers which practice it. Others may agree or disagree with that opinion, but there's no justification for personal insults.

the OP knew it when he made it, that it would rub people the wrong way. just like saying to go play elsewhere rubs people the wrong way. i don't care that he made it but everyone is defending him as if he is innocent of the comments made against him.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

02/21/2015 03:30:18 PM · #2

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

02/21/2015 03:24:12 PM · #3

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Mike:
... That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. ...

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Really?

Originally posted by Mike:
why make this comment then?

Originally posted by glad2badad:
These Expert challenges are killing my average vote cast stat.

This thread has been a plethora of missed communications.

Barry meant average vote CAST.....which nulled out my snarky post as the total and complete misunderstanding that it was.

umm, he inferred he votes these challenges low, and then actually confirmed it later in the discussion. when you make a backhanded comment don't be shocked when you get backhanded replies.

Message edited by author 2015-02-21 15:24:39.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

02/21/2015 03:14:41 PM · #4

Originally posted by Mike:

... That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. ...

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Really?

Originally posted by Mike:

why make this comment then?

Originally posted by glad2badad:

These Expert challenges are killing my average vote cast stat.

This thread has been a plethora of missed communications.

Barry meant average vote CAST.....which nulled out my snarky post as the total and complete misunderstanding that it was.

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

02/21/2015 11:08:52 AM · #5

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Mike:
... That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. ...

Really?

why make this comment then?

Originally posted by glad2badad:

These Expert challenges are killing my average vote cast stat.

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

02/21/2015 12:04:33 AM · #6

I admit that I was surprised the OP was being told he could go look elsewhere as I didn't find his post at all accusatory. We all need to be aware that we do need a mix of challenges with interesting topics to keep our membership active.

So far as expert is concerned, I have interest in looking at the challenges to see what's there (and I almost always vote)... I know there will always be a few entries devoted to editing, but I also like to look at what people have come up with, alternatively. I am NOT the editing type, myself, but I have used the expert challenges, on occasion, to do things I can't do in advanced. I'm not so much enamored with scores, so I don't always enter with that in mind. For people who like to score well, I believe it is important to vote if they enter.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

02/20/2015 11:49:32 PM · #7

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Mike:
... That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. ...

Really?

Right, you did no such thing.

But to be fair, on the other side, Christophe wasn't telling anyone to take a hike either; he was saying "If you don't want to look at what DPC is offering in any particular instance, DON'T. There are plenty of places to look at things on the internet." It wasn't an invitation to "take a hike"...

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

02/20/2015 10:43:24 PM · #8

Originally posted by Mike:

... That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. ...

Really?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/20/2015 10:16:45 PM · #9

Originally posted by insteps:

Basically, you don't have to be an expert, or use expert skills, to enter an expert challenge. Your minimal effort is fine. I really don't like the names of these rule sets. One could argue flipping them would make more sense. I'm not suggesting this but I'm more impressed with what is seen and captured with a camera. DPC even validates images so we know they are legitimate. This is very unique for an online photography site and should be commended.

I try to stay out of forums and wish I hadn't read this one. It was sad to see somebody being told to leave the site because they were interested in more minimal challenges. Petulant remarks like these aren't needed. He has the right to voice his opinion but so does everybody else.

He wasn't told to leave the site. It was suggested that there are other places to play if he wasn't happy here. That was after he took a slap at those who entered the expert challenges. Let's stop acting as if the op is the victim here.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

02/20/2015 06:21:04 PM · #10

Originally posted by insteps:

I really don't like the names of these rule sets.

When we (eventually) update them expect name changes ... :-)

FWIW I have two Minimally-edited entries in the five challenges currently available, though not the one which has to be Minimal Editing ...

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 18:54:43.

insteps

Ricoh GR III

Fujifilm XF 16mm f/1.4 R WR

02/20/2015 06:13:06 PM · #11

nygold

Nikon D5000

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G

02/20/2015 01:50:25 PM · #12

Expert editing challenges are usually lower because many put ribbons ahead of photography.

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

02/20/2015 01:24:00 PM · #13

Originally posted by Basta:

Rather than arguing about this subject, look at the numbers . Participation in last two expert challenges was in mid 20's . Impressive??

What used to make this place special is the fact that it was about photography.

Expert editing is way more about photoshop shenanigans than photography.

I think it has more to do with the topic than the editing ruleset, emphasis mine. some topics require more thought and effort, others not so much. Participation is down across the board, its not like expert editing challenges are statistical outliers, some have outperformed advanced editing challenges recently, opening lines for instance didn't have much in the way of composites, even though it was expert and got a lot of entries.

Steampunk (Expert Editing)
28
Open Challenge Numbers III (Advanced Editing)
62
Member Challenge Favorite Song (Advanced Editing)
50
Member Challenge Opening Lines (Expert Editing)
53
Open Challenge Tradesman (Advanced Editing)
34
Member Challenge Guess Your Score (Advanced Editing)
75
Member Challenge Stopped Motion VII (Advanced Editing)
39
Open Challenge Oil II (Advanced Editing)
48
Member Challenge Square Crop III (Advanced Editing)
94
Member Challenge Warmth (Advanced Editing)
45
Open Challenge Shoes III (Advanced Editing)
81
Member Challenge Freedom of Expression (Expert Editing)
33
Member Challenge Negative Space VII (Advanced Editing)
65
Open Challenge Ghost (Minimal Editing)
55
Member Challenge Something Old IV (Advanced Editing)
65
Member Challenge New Year Resolutions VII (Expert Editing)
38
Open Challenge Light III (Advanced Editing)
86
Member Challenge Lint (Advanced Editing)
37

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 13:28:38.

rooum

02/20/2015 01:19:34 PM · #14

Originally posted by jagar:

Are there any other sites like DPC on the web, not popularity based ones but actual challenge sites with enough members to count ? I don't get out much so I'm pretty ignorant about the web.

I don't know to be honest, i imagine there are some similar ones. I was just thinking that there was a much wider range of places to share photos and such online than what there was even five years ago.

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 13:19:58.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

02/20/2015 01:15:04 PM · #15

Are there any other sites like DPC on the web, not popularity based ones but actual challenge sites with enough members to count ? I don't get out much so I'm pretty ignorant about the web.

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 13:15:30.

rooum

02/20/2015 01:08:15 PM · #16

Oh, i don't know. People are always blaming declining membership and entries on something whether it's Expert or bickering in the forums. I think the truth is probably a combination of a lot of things. Websites mostly have finite lifespans and it's unreasonable to expect things to chug along year after year without any change. We have things like Flickr and 500px and numerous other places to compete with these days. I'm sure that has more to do with it than whatever this thread is an example of.

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 13:09:07.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

02/20/2015 12:53:09 PM · #17

Originally posted by Basta:

This tread is a great example why people stop being members. Sure did it for me.

This place is way too clicky.

Rather than arguing about this subject, look at the numbers . Participation in last two expert challenges was in mid 20's . Impressive??

What used to make this place special is the fact that it was about photography.

Expert editing is way more about photoshop shenanigans than photography.

I hate to say it but this is probably true.

Basta

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

02/20/2015 12:50:32 PM · #18

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

02/20/2015 11:23:29 AM · #19

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by jgirl57:
*expected to see Arts Godzilla somewhere in this thread*

If only....

I just find it sad that people think expert means a certain type of image. The ruleset does not determine the content. It can just as easily be a landscape with clouds added, or a bland sky replaced with a more dramatic one.

actually in the case of DPC it does. often the ruleset is chosen based on the topic. expert editing challenges tend to be those that encourage composites and minimal has on occasion been chosen to encourage certain technique, ghosts for instance was minimal and one could infer that double camera exposures and long shutters would be the norm as they were.

IMO i prefer that be the case, having expert editing for "Landscape 7" would feel out of place and having minimum for "Holiday card 5" would be awkward as well.

Message edited by author 2015-02-20 11:24:36.

tanguera

Nikon D750

02/20/2015 11:14:47 AM · #20

Originally posted by Tiny:

Totally right Miss, folks are very bizarre are they not.

They don't call it "Hollyweird" for naught...

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

02/20/2015 11:11:07 AM · #21

Totally right Miss, folks are very bizarre are they not.

tanguera

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

02/20/2015 10:50:14 AM · #22

Originally posted by jgirl57:

*expected to see Arts Godzilla somewhere in this thread*

If only....

I just find it sad that people think expert means a certain type of image. The ruleset does not determine the content. It can just as easily be a landscape with clouds added, or a bland sky replaced with a more dramatic one.

I don't know why or when copying Christophe's (or anyone else's) style became the only acceptable one. There are numerous techniques (such as double exposures) which are totally camera-centric, and not allowed in advanced.

And though it's been said, many times, many ways, it is possible to ribbon in expert with an image created with advanced, even minimal, techniques.

jgirl57

02/20/2015 09:52:40 AM · #23

*expected to see Arts Godzilla somewhere in this thread*

tate

Apple iPhone 14 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/20/2015 09:20:46 AM · #24

I agree with you - especially when I look at the majority of my own so-called "expert" stuff LOL.
And, of course, no one said "let's get rid of expert" ...
My understanding of the OP was that the trend was toward MORE Expert challenges and FEWER Minimal challenges and he was simply questioning that trend. If anything, maybe this thread got some gears going. A new minimal challenge was announced! =)

Originally posted by jagar:

I say long live expert, i will no longer vote on, enter one or click on one but that's simply because I don't like what I see, I find them cartoonish and false. I do think though that we should have expert, every taste should be dealt and just because I hate the look and the idea doesn't mean I don't want them.