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09/09/2004 07:32:59 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by jadin:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by jadin:
Despite the fact that not meeting the challenge is not a reason for DQ, if you were (hypothetical) to DQ this shot, you'd have to DQ a good THIRD of the challenge submissions. Since there were MANY, MANY, trees and or leaves as frames. |
Are you saying this is a good or a bad thing? |
Just demonstrating a flaw in logic. |
What flaw would that be? |
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09/09/2004 02:09:24 PM · #2 |
wow, if every shot that I felt did not fill the requirements where DQ'ed...they'd be only about 50 images left!
I think that many people just post whatever...whitout even trying.
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09/09/2004 01:38:53 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by jadin:
Despite the fact that not meeting the challenge is not a reason for DQ, if you were (hypothetical) to DQ this shot, you'd have to DQ a good THIRD of the challenge submissions. Since there were MANY, MANY, trees and or leaves as frames. |
Are you saying this is a good or a bad thing? |
Just demonstrating a flaw in logic.
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09/09/2004 12:09:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Amason:
Another thing that I find very improper, is that in every challenge there are some photos that truly do not fit the challenges, no question about it, and those photos are getting higher ratings than others that truly fits the challenges, but maybe aren't the best in it. That I find very unfair against those people that really tried and did read the challenge theme and details good enough to make no mistake about it.
The message that it gives is this;
If you haven't managed to reach over 4.5, just shoot a lot of good shots, you don't have to have the challenge theme in mind, then pick your best shot of the week, no matter what the theme in it is, and submit it in the challenge! Then you have a good chance of reaching over 4.5 if this photo is really good! |
While I have no opinion on Zoomdak's shot compared to others (I didn't vote in that challenge) I totally agree with Amason about the number of photos that don't even come close to fitting the challenges theme. Disqualification isn't necessary, but I certainly score them low and comment on the fact that they don't meet the challenge requirements. Justscoring them low doesn't let them know why, but a meaningful comment always does. |
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09/09/2004 11:47:49 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
...I suppose what i would appreciate is a more police approach to the challenge submissions, where pictures that are not relevant be disqualified, refused or otherwise asked to be modified. I come here to learn... |
If you do intend to learn, as you say you do, I doubt the police will be able to foster this aim. Law enforcement agencies are hardly intended to do their own thinking - never mind anyone else's.
We already have as posse (I've called 'em worse) trying to hang pitchers which don't fit the confines of their grasp.
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09/09/2004 10:47:28 AM · #6 |
I'd like to give another input on the subject, as it came to me. The "frame" terminology "limbo" of general photographie means to place a suject within the borders of the actual picture.
To that end, any pictures with a subject in it is considered 'framed'. I hardly see the point of having that General a challenge, where it could've simply been called "free study" of subject x.
The description of the challenge clearly state a Foreground (within the picture) that frames a background (subject). Dictionary description or not, something as to enclose a subject within the picture.
I suppose what i would appreciate is a more police approach to the challenge submissions, where pictures that are not relevant be disqualified, refused or otherwise asked to be modified. I come here to learn and vote on pictures relevant to the themes established, and for the quality of the photograper's work, hoping to learn from his/her technique in the best of my abilities. If 1 out of 3 challenges ends up with a landscape or a picture that is not relevant to the theme at hand, i hardly see the point to all this.
Thank you.
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09/08/2004 11:36:05 PM · #7 |
I think this is getting a bit beat to death here. I think that RedOak going to the dictionary seems rhetorical to the point of being defensive at least. Look, the math here is fairly clear at somewhere around 300:1 [catagorically speaking], therefore its pretty obvious.
This photo won because it was voted with a majority vote as all the rest of the challenges. RedOak has athe right to vote his opinion, and the right to place an objection and have it delt with as deemed by the rules...
Are all these efforts at an obvious relative off-track opinion really warranted at this point ? |
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09/08/2004 11:27:25 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I think it meets the challenge perfectly. |
Ditto. It's a good photo too, which I appreciate more than a mediocre one which pleases all the inspectors.
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09/08/2004 11:13:48 PM · #9 |
| I think it meets the challenge perfectly. |
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09/08/2004 10:57:48 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
Now, from the Oxfords English Dictionnary:
Frame: 1. a case or border enclosing a picture, window, door, etc.
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shut in on all sides.
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Good Grief, the dictionary police are out again..................... |
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09/08/2004 10:57:40 PM · #11 |
I am one who rated this photo on the low side. "Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image." My interpretation was to photograph AN IMAGE where THE foreground SUBJECT frames the rest of the image. I am among the seemingly small handful that felt THE SUBJECT of the photo was the frame! I thought I was pretty good about being open with interpretations...I accept that i have much to learn!
Here's something to think about...Did you meet the challenge? Did you have fun and get excited about the shot you captured? Good...so did I! Now quit the bickering, it's making my ratings drop children!
Message edited by author 2004-09-08 22:58:22. |
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09/08/2004 10:51:40 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by darix:
Originally posted by alionic:
Right then!!! for the next challenge "SMOKE" im submitting a kitten. |
Just put it on fire... |
:-O |
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09/08/2004 10:48:26 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by alionic:
Right then!!! for the next challenge "SMOKE" im submitting a kitten. |
Just put it on fire... |
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09/08/2004 10:39:31 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by alionic:
Right then!!! for the next challenge "SMOKE" im submitting a kitten. |
Hey...I'd fall for it! |
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09/08/2004 10:39:05 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
Ok everyone, i "partially" knew this was gonna happen. And i'm glad this community is mostly composed of adults who have an opinion to share, rather then randomly flame others.
NOw, concerning my err.. concern... The Challenge description clearly states that a "frame" must compose the foreground, and actually "frame" the rest of the picture (background, subject).
Now, from the Oxfords English Dictionnary:
Frame: 1. a case or border enclosing a picture, window, door, etc.
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shut in on all sides.
Now my point is, from my perspective and the one from the dictionary, this presentation does not comply with the description of the challenge. The picture is very nice tho.
Now, although this is a special case, i plan on making a post about this in a "general", where the challenges might need a little bit more precision, as i believe this web community is based on learning from others, and the challenges are for photographers, and not photography (themed contest).
Now i'll be off with this. This is my opinion, and for a while, i've found that most challenges are not properly explained or understood. This particuliar challenge is a good exemple of "ambiguous".
Thanks for everyone's time. |
I think that is the problem. You are quoting a dictionary for a word that IMO was meant as photographic "lingo". Being somewhat new I have to look up photographic terms to understand their meaning all the time. Every thing I've read (which didn't include the dictionary) lead me to believe that zoomdak's picture deserved the 10 I gave it. |
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09/08/2004 10:31:08 PM · #16 |
Framing with respect to photography does not follow the dictionary definition of a frame. Check any photography book and they describe exactly what the first place photo portrays. Maybe if there is a photography definition of a term that does not match what the strict dictionary definition is this could be identified in the challenge description. To me, since this is a photography site, this shouldn't have to be done, however it is also a learning site and this could be helpful.
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09/08/2004 10:30:36 PM · #17 |
Right then!!! for the next challenge "SMOKE" im submitting a kitten.
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09/08/2004 10:28:28 PM · #18 |
Sorry 'bout that, it should've read "Shut" and not "Shit". (keys are close to one another).
Thanks
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09/08/2004 10:18:54 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by RedOak:
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shit in on all sides.[/i] |
Shit in on all sides? None of these photos meet the challenge then. |
...no wonder my score was so low!!!!! ;o) |
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09/08/2004 10:18:42 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by RedOak:
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shit in on all sides.[/i] |
Shit in on all sides? None of these photos meet the challenge then. |
You beat me to it. :) |
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09/08/2004 10:18:09 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shit in on all sides.[/i] |
Shit in on all sides? None of these photos meet the challenge then.
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09/08/2004 10:15:08 PM · #22 |
Ok everyone, i "partially" knew this was gonna happen. And i'm glad this community is mostly composed of adults who have an opinion to share, rather then randomly flame others.
NOw, concerning my err.. concern... The Challenge description clearly states that a "frame" must compose the foreground, and actually "frame" the rest of the picture (background, subject).
Now, from the Oxfords English Dictionnary:
Frame: 1. a case or border enclosing a picture, window, door, etc.
Enclose: 1.a. Surround with wall, fence, etc. b. Shut in on all sides.
Now my point is, from my perspective and the one from the dictionary, this presentation does not comply with the description of the challenge. The picture is very nice tho.
Now, although this is a special case, i plan on making a post about this in a "general", where the challenges might need a little bit more precision, as i believe this web community is based on learning from others, and the challenges are for photographers, and not photography (themed contest).
Now i'll be off with this. This is my opinion, and for a while, i've found that most challenges are not properly explained or understood. This particuliar challenge is a good exemple of "ambiguous".
Thanks for everyone's time.
Message edited by author 2004-09-08 22:27:57.
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09/08/2004 07:50:35 PM · #23 |
With no real disrespect to RedOak starting this thread, but even a hinting for a DQ in this case is a bit disrespectful in itself I feel; the shot is not only outstanding, it is framed with the foreground quite well among many other nice things about it.
Camon RedOak, though you obviously have a right to an opinion, clearly you are well out in left field almost blind with yours' on this one. |
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09/08/2004 07:47:21 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.
Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."? |
To answer that, I would say it truly does fit the challenge, maybe the details could be worded a bit better, but I think the mass of the people understood the challenge well.
Another thing that I find very improper, is that in every challenge there are some photos that truly do not fit the challenges, no question about it, and those photos are getting higher ratings than others that truly fits the challenges, but maybe aren't the best in it. That I find very unfair against those people that really tried and did read the challenge theme and details good enough to make no mistake about it.
The message that it gives is this;
If you haven't managed to reach over 4.5, just shoot a lot of good shots, you don't have to have the challenge theme in mind, then pick your best shot of the week, no matter what the theme in it is, and submit it in the challenge! Then you have a good chance of reaching over 4.5 if this photo is really good!
In the framing challenge are some photos not fitting the challenge (no doubt) that are placed up to 26% higher than photos fitting it. How fair is that? It's like a triple jumper can compete with a long jumper and doesn't get any penalties for it, I would say that he should only have is first 5-6 meter's jump qualified, and like that he would be placed at the bottom among other 'triple jumpers'.
Please, if there's absoulutely no doubt a photo doesn't fit in a challenge, then rate it with the lowest rating, 1 in this case! No matter how good it looks! It's just in a wrong competition!
Message edited by author 2004-09-08 19:51:21.
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09/08/2004 07:45:54 PM · #25 |
whether or not the community can agree that the shot "meets the challenge", the votes seem to indicate that it did because meeting the challenge, despite not being a "ruled requirement" is to be kept at the forfront of voting per the voting guidelines. So I think clara's comment pretty much covers the issue.
Meeting the challenge is not a reason to DQ, and the votes govern whether its felt the shot meets or not.
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