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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Overprocessing or Underprocessing?
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Showing posts 1 - 25 of 37, descending (reverse)
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02/25/2005 04:54:35 PM · #1
Dayum, this thread's almost as old as I am... naw, only dust is that old!
LOL Robert, you sure do come up with some great analogies.

Some telltale signs of overprocessing:
- Colors are exaggerated to the point where the image is a caricature of itself.
- Halos around high-contrast opbjects have appeared from oversharpeneing
- Visible evidence of selection tool use or dodging/burining
- Ultra-smooth "plastic" look from overuse of noise reduction

Some telltale signs of underprocessing:
- Pic looks flat, histogram bunched at one end or in the middle. Needs contrast adjustment, properly set white adn black point
- Color cast remains from misset WB
- Distracting elements near the edge of the frame have been left in, when it would have been very easy to crop
- Tilted horizons. 'Nuf said

The above is certainly not an exhaustive list.
02/25/2005 04:03:10 PM · #2
If you can't tell it's been processed, it's not overprocessed. There's a middle gound though, where both less and more processing would yield a superior, more realistic result. Kinda like if you were painting a yellow wall white, and stopped with one coat; both the original wall and the wall with a second coat of white on it would look better than the half-assed, 1-coat job with sickly blotches of yellow fading through...

Robt.
02/25/2005 03:30:03 PM · #3
How would i actually know if a picture ive done is overprocessed or underprocessed? Are there any tell tell signs i should look out for i already can tell when its to sharp starts to look crazy but what about everything else?

Leon
07/27/2002 09:00:13 AM · #4
These are the kind of changes i was talking about in the original post, that amazed me so much and made me wonder what is more important. I am slowly working my way to thinking the photo and photoshop are basically equal when you learn how to use both.

Basically the equasl of taking and devoloping film.... given what I have seen I really need to learn photoshop. Until this latest week I never did anything but resize and I am getting killed on comment for having not known photoshop.
07/27/2002 04:31:12 AM · #5
Originally posted by gr8photos:
i now have an example of one of my before and after photos on my website here. i'm not saying i did it well, but just wanted to show how different the image can look.

"i'm not saying i did it well" - I am. Before shot is very "nice" probably a 7 - 8. After shot is a straight 10.

I suggested this for the B&W challenge but it applies to all challenges. I'd be really interested to see "before" (i.e. out of the camera) shots and "after" (i.e. ready for submission). I think this would be very useful for learning what to do as opposed to how to do (for which there are any number of tutorials across the web).

Any takers?
07/27/2002 03:49:17 AM · #6
Originally posted by Journey:
It would really be great if the rules would spell out exactly what you can do and cannot do with Photoshop. I have seen people changing the color of the whole image with Hue/Sat. Would you also be allowed to make adjustments by color instead of just the master? In curves and levels, would you be allowed to make adjustments with masks? Allowed to make any of the allowed adjustments for individual channels? Etc.

Right now, it is hard to discern where exactly the line is being drawn. I have played it safe with basic levels and curves, UM and resizing so far but it would be nice to know.


I hope I don''t get hammered on in the next challenge for the simple, but dramatic adjustments I did to my color curves. As I read the rules it is permitted, and it is the first time I''ve ever done anything photographically that looks somewhat unnatural, but it did achieve an effect that enhances the message of the photo.


* This message has been edited by the author on 7/27/2002 3:49:25 AM.
07/27/2002 02:02:04 AM · #7
Originally posted by balynch:
I have found a way of Unsharp Masking that affects the color as little as possible while still providing a visible effect. I don''t remember where I originally saw this, but I can''t take credit for it since I didn''t discover it myself.

Basically, instead of doing a UM on the whole RGB image, change to LAB color, select the luminance channel, and perform an Unsharp Mask on just the L. I have obtained great results without having the "processed" look. I don''t know if this has been mentioned before but I thought I would throw it out there. You can still screw it up with this method but it tends to be more forgiving..


Don''t you degrade the image by converting from RGB to LAB???

It would really be great if the rules would spell out exactly what you can do and cannot do with Photoshop. I have seen people changing the color of the whole image with Hue/Sat. Would you also be allowed to make adjustments by color instead of just the master? In curves and levels, would you be allowed to make adjustments with masks? Allowed to make any of the allowed adjustments for individual channels? Etc.

Right now, it is hard to discern where exactly the line is being drawn. I have played it safe with basic levels and curves, UM and resizing so far but it would be nice to know.





* This message has been edited by the author on 7/27/2002 2:10:32 AM.
07/27/2002 01:21:47 AM · #8
Originally posted by gr8photos:
i now have an example of one of my before and after photos on my website here. i'm not saying i did it well, but just wanted to show how different the image can look.

Now thats what I call before and after shots.

Very nice.
07/26/2002 11:26:38 PM · #9
i now have an example of one of my before and after photos on my website here. i'm not saying i did it well, but just wanted to show how different the image can look.
07/26/2002 01:42:47 PM · #10
I have found a way of Unsharp Masking that affects the color as little as possible while still providing a visible effect. I don't remember where I originally saw this, but I can't take credit for it since I didn't discover it myself.

Basically, instead of doing a UM on the whole RGB image, change to LAB color, select the luminance channel, and perform an Unsharp Mask on just the L. I have obtained great results without having the "processed" look. I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I thought I would throw it out there. You can still screw it up with this method but it tends to be more forgiving..

Bryan
07/26/2002 01:42:25 PM · #11
Originally posted by mcmurma:
Originally posted by TerryGee:
[i]I was curious - is solorizing or changing the color completely allowed?
I think I saw one of these somewhere


I think the word is still out on whether or not this should be allowed. In the meantime, I'd say that if you have such an image go ahead and use it. It would be risky, though. While it may be allowed, I am not sure how well it would score. Some ppl may gig you for it.[/i]

My camera "does" solarization, so I wouldn't always assume it is a Photoshop or other processing function.


07/26/2002 01:23:53 PM · #12
I myself am in the process of writing a step-by-step tutorial on using Photoshop with your DPChallenge photos. In it I hope to explain how and why the adjustements allowed are for the good of all, and how they can be used to turn a really good shot into a great one.

I feel the best way to teach is by example, and I would like to include plenty of them in the tutorial. So....

If anyone has had any great Photoshop "success" stories and would like to share before and after images... OR if anyone has had a photo they submitted but were repeatedly told it needed to be sharpened, or have the levels adjusted, or it needed more contrast, (or perhaps that it was overprocessed) etc. and would like to see how it would look with some adjustments-- please drop me a line!

I'll give credit to each photo where credit is due, and of course you can choose to remain anonymous if you wish.
07/26/2002 12:56:40 PM · #13
I think we're in danger of throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. Instead of abandoning Photoshop, let's learn to use what we need for this site. I confess that I've made a lot of comments this week on over (or under) processing. With texture as a subject, a person naturally wants his photo to be as sharp as possible, so they run it through the Sharpen filter it seems like 50 times, or crank up the dials on Unsharp Mask way too high. Also, I think a lot of people over compress their pictures so a good portion of the detail is lost in JPEG artifacts. On the other hand, digital cameras tend to produce somewhat soft photos so a little sharpening is needed, and sometimes just a little Curves or Levels with give the colors the 'punch' to turn a so-so picture into a great one.
07/26/2002 12:54:08 PM · #14
Originally posted by cthenk:
Sounds like a perfect idea for a challenge to me! :)

No processing outside of the camera - enter your photo 'as is'

I know this is the wrong forum, but what do you think?


Actually, I was thinking the opposite... Have a 'mini-challenge' where PS guru's all take a photo from a challenge that could be improved with PS (with the photographer's blessing of course) and see what can be done with it...

To this end, I offer any shot I've ever submitted for this 'mini-challenge'... I'm certain from the comments they've gotten, they would be good choices for "Being Fixed"... :)
07/26/2002 12:53:20 PM · #15
Originally posted by TerryGee:
I was curious - is solorizing or changing the color completely allowed?
I think I saw one of these somewhere


I think the word is still out on whether or not this should be allowed. In the meantime, I'd say that if you have such an image go ahead and use it. It would be risky, though. While it may be allowed, I am not sure how well it would score. Some ppl may gig you for it.
07/26/2002 12:43:15 PM · #16
excellent article KD. im printing it out! : )
07/26/2002 12:30:03 PM · #17
I was curious - is solorizing or changing the color completely allowed?
I think I saw one of these somewhere
07/26/2002 11:59:53 AM · #18
Originally posted by KDJohnson:
stuff
Looks like a good link, Karen...
Thanks for sharing!



07/26/2002 11:55:06 AM · #19
stuff
07/26/2002 11:27:24 AM · #20
Speaking as someone with a DSC-P50, I agree mag. Unfortunately I really screwed up this time and submitted a photo that was probably way overdone. I've gotten good and bad comments about it but I liked the final version...it seems a little harsh when I go back and look at it now.

Photoshop and the legal edits we can make are sometimes my only hopes of entering a nice photo that I like but isn't so great in sharpness or levels.
07/26/2002 11:00:21 AM · #21
and to add what kimbly said, it limits the output of people with lower end cameras .. in other words, to get my dc50 pic to look close to as good as your d60, i might need photoshop.

in other words, the small level of photo editing we are allowed helps to level the playing field.....
07/26/2002 10:58:42 AM · #22
I also fully agree that the limits that are imposed on "Photoshopping" are beneficial to the new user. Most people I have observed who are new to Photoshop typically apply filters until they think the photo looks good. I was told something one time that stuck with me to this day:

Do not use a filter without a specific result in mind.

Filters can be used appropriately to improve the aspects of a photograph. But it is much easier to destroy the original beauty of a photograph with them.

The bottom line is that any processing done in Photoshop should be so subtle that the viewer wonders if Photoshop was used at all. Making a digital photograph look digital is not the desired result.
07/26/2002 10:56:44 AM · #23
Originally posted by cthenk:
Sounds like a perfect idea for a challenge to me! :)

No processing outside of the camera - enter your photo ''as is''

I know this is the wrong forum, but what do you think?


Some cameras take great images straight out of the camera. Some cameras leave the images a little soft or a little undersaturated so that the photographer can fool with it later to get it exactly where they want it, rather than everything being a predetermined sharpness, saturation and contrast. I don''t think that the amount of skill it takes to know how to crop and sharpen a picture is a significant disadvantage for people. Pretty much all I know how to do in PS is crop, levels, hue/saturation, and sharpen, but it definitely enhances my pictures.

If you don''t know how, there are plenty of people here willing to help you out, as well as tons of web tutorials on the subject.

It seems to have a ''camera only'' challenge is just sort of cutting out the opportunity to learn as well as needlessly eliminating a simple possibility for improving a photograph. It seems to me like it''s just part of the process, and disallowing it is arbitrary. Like having a ''no tripod allowed'' challenge or something.



* This message has been edited by the author on 7/26/2002 10:57:34 AM.
07/26/2002 10:46:26 AM · #24
Sounds like a perfect idea for a challenge to me! :)

No processing outside of the camera - enter your photo 'as is'

I know this is the wrong forum, but what do you think?
07/26/2002 10:10:47 AM · #25
Yes, you are right. And said more eloquently. I think I meant that too. Looking like a photo meaning not digital art.... yes?
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