slavery? really? - DPChallenge Forums

02/25/2012 11:16:40 PM · #1

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

very easy to escape from, didn't you ever see Finding Nemo? Just swim down :)

02/25/2012 05:16:44 PM · #2

Originally posted by mike_311:

I'm trying to figure how animals so smart can end up in nets we leave out for tuna.

We don't "leave the nets out"; tuna are harvested by purse seiners who rapidly and efficiently encircle whole schools of fish (and the dolphins that travel with them) in a net that has a drawstring closure at the bottom. The net's connected in a circle, pursed at the bottom, and the whole thing's lifted out of the sea and dumped onto the boat. This is panic city, man, it's not that easy to escape from. Cf the crowd behavior of humans faced with extreme danger.

It's slightly off topic, but let me throw in a plug for a wonderful book called "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds": It's a mid-19th century work, available here courtesy of Project Gutenberg.

R.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/25/2012 04:38:37 PM · #3

Originally posted by blindjustice:

I will defer on this one to the well thought out opinions of Mr. B Music. But how the hell does Sea world put an orca back in the show after it kills a trainer, only to kill again? seems a bit silly.

humans arent very smart either.

escapetooz

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

02/25/2012 12:02:05 PM · #4

I don't think they necessarily set out to win. I mean I'm sure they hoped they would, but the sensational language has got us talking about something that seriously needs to be addressed.

It makes me a bit sick the ego we have as humans. We act like the world and everything in it is ours for the taking and scoff at the notion that it's any other way. We really aren't that smart. Dolphins and whales have the right idea. Swim, play, communicate, have sex, eat. That's about all you need. Working all day is a human invention, and I frankly think it was a dumb one.

�Man's destiny was to conquer and rule the world, and this is what he's done.. almost. He hasn't quite made it, and it looks as though this may be his undoing. The problem is that man's conquest of the world has itself devastated the world. And in spite of all the mastery we've attained, we don't have enough mastery to stop devastating the world.. or to repair the devastation we've already wrought.�
~Daniel Quinn

�Do you see the slightest evidence anywhere in the universe that creation came to an end with the birth of man? Do you see the slightest evidence anywhere out there that man was the climax toward which creation had been straining from the beginning? ...Very far from it. The universe went on as before, the planet went on as before. Man's appearance caused no more stir than the appearance of jellyfish.�
~Daniel Quinn, Ishmael: An Adventure of the Mind and Spirit

Ishmael is a must read.

Message edited by author 2012-02-25 12:02:44.

blindjustice

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/24/2012 06:05:15 PM · #5

I will defer on this one to the well thought out opinions of Mr. B Music. But how the hell does Sea world put an orca back in the show after it kills a trainer, only to kill again? seems a bit silly.

02/24/2012 05:41:04 PM · #6

Originally posted by mike_311:

I'm trying to figure how animals so smart can end up in nets we leave out for tuna.

Hmmm .... one can only wonder.

02/24/2012 05:17:37 PM · #7

I'm trying to figure how animals so smart can end up in nets we leave out for tuna.

Message edited by author 2012-02-24 17:17:57.

02/24/2012 04:22:49 PM · #8

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by dyridings:
I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.

Let me be very clear on this: I was at one time (when I lived in San Diego, where I grew up) a member of the Zoological Society. I have absolutely nothing against zoos and aquariums, and they do wonderful, useful work at so many levels I couldn't begin to list them. But that isn't the issue I'm seeing here...

As far as I'm concerned, Cetaceans, at least some of them, are intelligent beings that belong in a different category altogether, one they loosely share with humans. I can't see a Humpback Whale or an Orca as "just another animal", and I think it's scandalous that we still allow the hunting of the former and the "enslavement" of the latter, in places like Sea World. I don't think there's any excuse for it.

And yes, I'm aware that most nations have signed on to the no-whaling program. But they are still hunted, in an organized manner by the Japanese (for example) and by subsistence hunters in the Arctic: and I think it's terrible. We know enough about them now to know that they are intelligent, gregarious beings who communicate with each other very effectively. I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn up, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.

I appreciate your input, and I also think there are places that do great work. But I also find them still to be animals. I suppose unless I see something that seriously persuades me in another direction, that will continue to be my view. We can agree to disagree on the subject.

As for the "cute animals" comment... that's very much true, sadly. Take the humane societies... people choose the "cute" dogs or cats, as opposed to the less appealing ones.

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

02/24/2012 04:14:22 PM · #9

As the good doctor Dennis Leary once said, "we only want to save the cute animals".

scarbrd

Leica M10

02/24/2012 04:14:09 PM · #10

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn yup, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.

It'll be a close contest with humanity's treatment of fellow humans.

02/24/2012 03:55:44 PM · #11

Originally posted by dyridings:

I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.

Let me be very clear on this: I was at one time (when I lived in San Diego, where I grew up) a member of the Zoological Society. I have absolutely nothing against zoos and aquariums, and they do wonderful, useful work at so many levels I couldn't begin to list them. But that isn't the issue I'm seeing here...

As far as I'm concerned, Cetaceans, at least some of them, are intelligent beings that belong in a different category altogether, one they loosely share with humans. I can't see a Humpback Whale or an Orca as "just another animal", and I think it's scandalous that we still allow the hunting of the former and the "enslavement" of the latter, in places like Sea World. I don't think there's any excuse for it.

And yes, I'm aware that most nations have signed on to the no-whaling program. But they are still hunted, in an organized manner by the Japanese (for example) and by subsistence hunters in the Arctic: and I think it's terrible. We know enough about them now to know that they are intelligent, gregarious beings who communicate with each other very effectively. I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn up, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.

Message edited by author 2012-02-24 16:14:29.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

02/24/2012 03:40:14 PM · #12

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by dyridings:
This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense

I'M taking it seriously. I see a world of difference between domesticating companion animals and, essentially, "enslaving" individuals of what is perhaps the only other intelligent, thinking group of species on earth. There's a HUGE body of work pointing to the intelligence and social structures of cetaceans that makes me feel really strange when I see them performing like circus animals for our amusement.

I'm not expressing myself well here. I get worked up on this topic.

R.

I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.

I do agree that there are many different creatures that are highly intelligent, and my daughter wants to work with animals, she is particularly passionate about sharks and dolphins.

However, I don't see Sea World doing anything wrong, certainly not slavery. These animals, many of them, were brought in somewhere because they were hurt or needed some type of help. Placing them back in the wild would likely kill them, would you agree?

I do see a problem with things such as dog fights, or if there was animal cruelty involved. But many places wouldn't be able to help the animals if it wasn't for the revenue generated from things like Sea World (not sure about their profit policy completely).

pamb

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

02/23/2012 07:54:37 PM · #13

docpjv

Fujifilm X-E1

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

02/23/2012 07:26:49 PM · #14

It is a serious subject; people are animals too, they just do not lick their own butts. That's what bosses are for.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/23/2012 06:38:52 PM · #15

[quote=Bear_Music] It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R. [/quote

I happen to have "The Ultimate HItchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy" right next to my keyboard and vividly recall the days that I would read excerpts of the book to

Beetle... complete with my version of differing voices.

...and the ultimate question is?s

Thanks for bringing back some very fond memories my friend.

Ray

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

02/23/2012 06:38:15 PM · #16

Not all zoos and aquariums are created equally. All I can safely say is.... please patronize accredited zoos and aquariums.

02/23/2012 06:28:34 PM · #17

Originally posted by dyridings:

This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense

I'M taking it seriously. I see a world of difference between domesticating companion animals and, essentially, "enslaving" individuals of what is perhaps the only other intelligent, thinking group of species on earth. There's a HUGE body of work pointing to the intelligence and social structures of cetaceans that makes me feel really strange when I see them performing like circus animals for our amusement.

I'm not expressing myself well here. I get worked up on this topic.

R.

cowboy221977

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

02/23/2012 06:25:15 PM · #18

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R.

Yeah mice are the only intellegent creatures and the dolphins thank us for all the fish

02/23/2012 06:23:24 PM · #19

This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense

On a serious note... i dont understand how PETA thought they were gonna win this one

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 18:25:38.

02/23/2012 06:23:18 PM · #20

It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R.

cowboy221977

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

02/23/2012 06:19:37 PM · #21

Originally posted by o2bskating:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
My dog thinks that she is a people...but she still licks her butt
there are a few people i've met that may be closet but lickers as well...

OMG That's good

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/23/2012 06:15:16 PM · #22

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

My dog thinks that she is a people...but she still licks her butt

there are a few people i've met that may be closet but lickers as well...

02/23/2012 06:14:27 PM · #23

Ha. Mine too

cowboy221977