| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/21/2011 06:07:59 PM · #1 |
| Thats right. A reaction is what most of us want. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 01:55:20 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Socom:
Anyway, I am still apprehensive about leaving comments, but I will give it a shot.. based on my scores I really dont think I should as I think its fairly apparent I dont know what people want on here. But that seems to be your guys thing, until I comment more, I shouldnt bitch. |
You don't need to leave an analysis of the photos. Just your impression sometimes works well, in fact those are often the best comments. I often leave funny or snarky comments, (including my infamous Grog comments). It really adds to my enjoyment of the challenges and I think most of the recipients appreciate it. After all, the entry got a reaction from me, right?
|
|
|
|
05/21/2011 01:32:25 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Socom:
Anyway, ill comment more to others, and maybe in a couple challenges I will give it another try. |
Glad to hear you're willing to stick around.
I'm late to the discussion but here are few numbers to put it into perspective. Through your first eight challenges you received 1208 votes only 36 were less than 3 (about 3%). Are you going to let 3% of the votes you receive define whether or not you enjoy DPC? Don't wait for the voters behind that 3% to tell you how to improve with comments; as many above have already said there are so many more ways to learn at DPC. We all would like to receive more comments but it's far easier to vote than to provide a constructive comment so the ratio of comments to votes will always be low.
And one last piece of advice. Please remember that not every 1 or 2 vote comes from a nefarious troll as some would like to believe. There are many styles of voting at DPC and just because a 1 vote means "hate" on your scale doesn't mean it's so severe on another voter's scale.
Relax, participate and learn. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 12:31:36 PM · #4 |
I don't have much to add to what's been said, but I think Simms really nailed it. This site is full of incredibly talented photographers and it's unrealistic to expect to achieve what they do.
Go comment - it forces your to look at a photo a little deeper and learn what works and doesn't work for you. Ask for comments and you're get plenty.
As far as the scores, it's just a number. I was close to quitting DPC on more than one occasion for the same reason, and somewhere buried in the forums is my "I'm going to quit" thread. But if I didn't stick around I'd be nowhere as good as I am now, and yet I know I have a long way to go before I reach the level I want.
Somebody,  Ursula I believe, said, "Take what you learned, leave the rest." Good advice. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 12:17:11 PM · #5 |
Thanks everyone, I very much appreciate all the comments, even the ones that are harsh.
I know that having a few trolls is just part of it, or maybe they really do just hate the shot. Its frustrating, and I let it get to me, not exactly sure why.. but I did.
Anyway, ill comment more to others, and maybe in a couple challenges I will give it another try.
Thanks again
Clay |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 09:19:35 AM · #6 |
Let's remove the option for 1s and 2s. I don't give them because anybody that can hold a camera and press the button and then upload it generally gets a minimum of a 3 from me. Perhaps, rather than having 1s and 2s genuine reviewers could leave a comment and a troll wouldn't bother?
Either that, or we can all '(wo)man up' and remember it's just a bit of fun and the only person you're really trying to please is yourself, unless you're a pro.
Message edited by author 2011-05-21 09:32:35. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 08:36:38 AM · #7 |
first of all we all get those trolls so it drags down all of our scores evenly, second you aren't winning anything except admiration. if you aren't getting it, you aren't doing something right. third, like others suggested, the best way to improve is to critique other pictures. you will find that when you force yourself explain why something doesn't work in their image you are less likely to use the same element or technique in your own work.
This site is just for fun and improving your work, you enter challenges to see how well you can adapt to a challenge and how others approached it.
i like this site because people aren't afraid here to tell you why they don't like your work. in fact the best place to get critique is to enter the side challenges, i find that the main challenges, unless your work is exceptional or close but obviously flawed, you will rarely get a good comment. that just the nature, people don't have time to leave comments an image unless it resonates with them when they have to go through so many images.
|
|
|
|
05/21/2011 08:18:15 AM · #8 |
| Some advice from me - if you want recognition stick around. There aren't many sites where you can get it. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 08:09:00 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by vawendy:
A couple of things you need to know:[..]
The bottom line is we all think it's worthwhile to stick around. :D |
WOW! How much time do you have, Vawendy? Just kidding but that was my first reaction :)
Well said. Margaret |
hahaha! I have 7 boys here for my son's sleepover bday party. I got 4 hours of sleep last night (if that), and I'm using this as a reason to avoid them. :D |
Perfect excuse :) |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 08:07:24 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by vawendy:
A couple of things you need to know:[..]
The bottom line is we all think it's worthwhile to stick around. :D |
WOW! How much time do you have, Vawendy? Just kidding but that was my first reaction :)
Well said. Margaret |
hahaha! I have 7 boys here for my son's sleepover bday party. I got 4 hours of sleep last night (if that), and I'm using this as a reason to avoid them. :D |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 08:02:15 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
A couple of things you need to know:[..]
The bottom line is we all think it's worthwhile to stick around. :D |
WOW! How much time do you have, Vawendy? Just kidding but that was my first reaction :)
Well said. Margaret |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 07:54:30 AM · #12 |
A couple of things you need to know:
1. It's not that people don't want to change, it's that it's not a new suggestion. "change the voting problems" threads come up all the time. That's why people react so strongly, it's been discussed so many times. Before my time, they even tried forcing people to comment if they left a low score. That didn't work either. The system is the best it can be. You can't just do away with the 1s and 2s, because then 3s and 4s will be the new trolls.
2. Most people consider the 1s and 2s to be trolls. In our mind, there aren't too many photos on this site that would ever rate a 1 or 2. However, 3s and 4s -- no matter how annoying -- can be considered valid votes. There are people on here that vote low if the photo is not unique. They think that people should push the boundaries, and not do the same types of photos over and over again, and will vote low the cliche photos. I don't agree with this voting, but I can see where they are coming from, and they are allowed to vote however they want.
3. Keeping that in mind, look at how many "trolls" you have received:
 -- no 1s, two 2s
 -- no 1s, three 2s
 -- no 1s, one 2
 -- two 1s, three 2s
 -- no 1s, one 2
The lowest one is --  three 1s, eleven 2s -- when something goes outside the normal pattern, it's a clue that that particular photo really didn't work, and perhaps there was a reason for that many low votes.
On average, you are getting 2 trolls per challenge. Is it really worth considering quitting a great opportunity because of 2 people? Seems like a waste of said opportunity.
As Jon_H has said: we've all gone through this. I certainly wanted to quit for awhile for the same reason. I'm incredible glad that I stuck it out.
Also -- people are saying that if you want comments, comment yourself. Comments breed comments.
They don't.
Don't comment because you want to receive more. Comment because it's one of the best learning opportunities. You don't have to be experience, knowledgeable, to comment. Simply ask yourself: "why is this photo not a 10? What did they do right? What did they do wrong? Is there anything that they could have done to make this photo better?" It's so much easier to look critically at someone else's work than your own. Once you figure out the common mistake that others make, it's easier to look at your own and realize that you're probably making the same mistakes.
If you comment to receive more comments, you'll be disappointed. If you comment to learn, explore, and start building relationships, you will get so much more than you give.
You're getting a mix of responses in this thread. People who are really annoyed and saying "suck it up" and people who are trying to explain. The people who are trying to explain have probably been through the same thought process recently and are trying to be helpful, because they know what you're feeling and think that it's worthwhile to stick it out.
The people who are being harsh/unfeeling are probably saying it that way because they've said it so many times, to so many of us who have been through the same thing, that they're getting sick of saying it. However, they also think that it's really worthwhile and that's why they're bothering to post anything at all.
The bottom line is we all think it's worthwhile to stick around. :D
|
|
|
|
05/21/2011 04:43:40 AM · #13 |
I think most people have gone through what you are feeling, I know I did.
Your issue with commenting seems to be you don't think you are good enough and I felt the same way but I'm sure I read a comment on this site that made me change my mind which was similar to " When you eat out and your meal sucks do you politely say nothing or send the food right back with a critique" this for me opened my eyes about comments, I'm not a chef so what gives me the right to tell the chef they got it wrong? everyone has an opinion and you know when you see a sub standard photo in your own opinion so tell them and don't be shy, if they don't like it so what but like you they will have learned something.
You cant leave anyway as you will miss the update button... stick with it you will always get annoyed when you feel the images is good by your own standards but over time you will chill. I know I have. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 03:33:47 AM · #14 |
The most important thing that DPC taught me is how to let go of emotional attachment to an image and see it for what it is. Oh, and processing.
|
|
|
|
05/21/2011 03:27:09 AM · #15 |
You know, stop worrying about the 1s and 2s. In the grand scheme of things they don't really make that much difference. Yes, it's irritating that people can give your "masterpiece" a 1 (we all feel like that, honestly!) but accept that it's never going to change. I've been around for 5 years and people have been complaining about 1s and 2s since long before I joined. The impact is really quite negligible. You have over 1,000 votes on your challenge entries and less than 10 1s. Really, don't sweat it.
Don't try too hard, relax, enjoy your shooting, enter when you feel like it. If you really care about your scores, as someone already suggested earlier in the thread, get yourself a buddy who will provide honest feedback before the challenge. It can really help. A second pair of eyes will often spot the crooked horizon, the dust spots and things. But do hang around a bit longer and give yourself a chance. Be patient.
Message edited by author 2011-05-21 03:27:54. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 02:49:00 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
Originally posted by Socom:
... until I comment more, I shouldnt bitch. |
Shouldn't bitch, period! A positive attitude goes a lot further toward achieving happiness. |
May go further towards achieving happiness, but it doesnt inspire change. Sometimes change is a good thing, enough people are not happy with how the votes are for 1's and 2's. Maybe at some point something will change with that, maybe not. But if you dont voice your opinion it definitely wont. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 02:46:52 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I was half-kidding. Stick around, comment on other's photos (there are no qualifications necessary to having an opinion), join side challenges, get thicker skin, stop worrying about your challenge scores. Do all that and in a year or two, you be posting how much you've learned and how awesome this place is. :) |
I should add something then, I already think the forums are awesome, when I asked questions you guys jump in and help out, when I offer ideas those usually get beat up .. but thats ok im the new guy. Its the voting that gets me.. I have already learned a lot, and I know I will learn a lot more. I came from shooting nature and landscapes to almost every challenge so far a studio type shot.. not my comfort zone.
But thank you for only half-kidding :) |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 02:42:16 AM · #18 |
| I was half-kidding. Stick around, comment on other's photos (there are no qualifications necessary to having an opinion), join side challenges, get thicker skin, stop worrying about your challenge scores. Do all that and in a year or two, you be posting how much you've learned and how awesome this place is. :) |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 02:40:20 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Socom:
... until I comment more, I shouldnt bitch. |
Shouldn't bitch, period! A positive attitude goes a lot further toward achieving happiness. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 02:25:32 AM · #20 |
RamblinR: The reasons I do not comment much are two fold. One I really dont think I am good enough to crtizie other peoples work, I give good comments when something really stands out, but I dont feel I have yet earned the right to give critizem. Secondly, I never give ones or twos. When you get a high score (for me anything over a 5) I dont need a comment, I know they saw what I saw or at least saw what I was going for.
Sirashley: For the most part I agree, nothing exciting, not standing out not sucking.. no comments. I guess for me its if your going to trash the picture a reason would be nice.
The logic of leave a comment give a comment is kind of silly, during challenges anyway, as you dont know which picture mine is, I could leave a comment on everyone that will not change if I get one (until maybe after the its over). Which, honestly I dont care when I get a comment, I dont need someone blowing smoke up my ass, I just want to know what I did wrong, so I can correct it.
And because of this post a couple people have left comments on some of my shots and I will do the same back.
Art: hey no worries.. you have your opinion of it, cant fault you for that. But, take a look at it from some of the new peoples perspective as well. First, I dont see what difference it makes how many comments I have left has to do with other people leaving comments 'during a challenge' or if I have a right to my opinion on how its crappy to leave a 1 or 2 without a comment.
I cant speak for everyone, but for myself, 8 challenges, sure not a lot for you, but, I bought new lighting for these challenges, upgraded software for them, of course I didnt have to do any of that, but I wanted to, to get better at areas I dont do. Its hard when after all that, you get scores that make no sense and then have to go beg for a reason why.
You want the site to do well, you want more people on here, doesnt hurt to listen to things that are making those folks uneasy. you cant make everyone happy, god knows im a pain in the ass, but I would like to think some of what I say could be useful.
Anyway, I am still apprehensive about leaving comments, but I will give it a shot.. based on my scores I really dont think I should as I think its fairly apparent I dont know what people want on here. But that seems to be your guys thing, until I comment more, I shouldnt bitch.
|
|
|
|
05/21/2011 01:38:42 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Oh no, please please please don't go! Give us another chance!
Eh, screw it - 9 challenges and 27 comments made - you've done all you can - you gave it a tremendous effort. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
...sorry, it's Bipolar night at the Roflmao house. |
wow, and i thought my last post was harsh! lol |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 01:08:02 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Socom:
I put a lot of heart, soul, time and effort into this picture.
...
you know, as its a picture challenge. |
I'm another who will be a bit harsh. Sorry. I believe people need tough love sometimes, especially if they want to grow and get passed the things that bother them.
1. People can't usually see the time and effort that goes into a photo (and when they can, it's usually a bad thing because that often means the photog was too sloppy to hide the [lack of] time and effort that goes into a photo).
2. Only the masters can consistently show heart and soul that goes into a photo.
3. Heart, soul, time, and effort--none of those are synonymous with quality.
4. You said it yourself. It's a "picture challenge." Do you want people to rate you based on how long you took to create your entry or do you want them to rate you on the final product? In the real world, the photo that takes 5 minutes to create will be paid more money if it has better quality than a photo that took a year to make. DPCers (and everyone else in the world) have been trained to gravitate toward image quality--think "magazine"-type quality, regardless of subject matter (and heart, soul, time, and effort). |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 12:47:41 AM · #23 |
Oh no, please please please don't go! Give us another chance!
Eh, screw it - 9 challenges and 27 comments made - you've done all you can - you gave it a tremendous effort. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
...sorry, it's Bipolar night at the Roflmao house. |
|
|
|
05/21/2011 12:38:42 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
art is personal, when people don't like it, it hurts. thats just the way it is, you'll never make something that appeals to everyone. the sooner you learn that and grow a thicker skin the better off you'll be |
Wise advise.......Don't judge your photography skill by how you score here on DPC.
Message edited by author 2011-05-21 00:40:11. |
|
|
|
05/20/2011 11:56:52 PM · #25 |
| I am not one that joins in forum discussion, although I do read them. However, I am going to jump in here, as I feel it is an opportunity to express appreciation to everyone at DPC for most everything I have learned about photography. I entered my first challenge six months after registering. During that six months I looked at images, read tutorials, voted, and took in a lot of information. I take a lot of photographs that never make it to DPC and they are the ones that please me the most. Images I take for the challenges are not images that I would normally take, but I do it to improve my skills. I am always surprised and humbled when one of my images does well here, as there are a lot of very talented photographers and I am a little intimidated to try and run in the same league. I also know when I enter a so-so image in a challenge (to be honest, most of us do), and thus am not surprised that I don't get many comments. So, I guess I would say if you are not enjoying what you are doing here, then leave; or if you want to learn, stay around and take it all in and become a better photographer rather than a competitor. |
|
