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07/11/2004 06:00:13 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by ACPhotoDesign:
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
In a group of great photos, they were unique and very well executed simultaneously. |
I especially liked this one. It was one of my few 10 votes because of the meaningful subject matter, the great title and the excellent photographic mastery it demonstrated. I was surprised it didn't do better. |
I couldn't agree more. |
Thank you guys for the kind words. There were so many great photographs in the June Challenge that I feel proud to get 12th. I’m sort of new to this photo business and am overwhelmed at how well I’ve done in the last two Challenges. Now I find the saying ‘where do I go from here’ haunting my thoughts.
Unlike painting on canvases with these photographs it seems a person has to be eternally creative. How do you guys do it?
I admit I’m not one to get involved that much but I lurk in the background and do enjoy reading the threads and voting and giving my thumbs up in a comment or two.
jm
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07/11/2004 03:35:37 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see. |
Can I see what I can do with the sky with Curves? |
If you'd like :o) I've gotten much better with PS, but there is alway something new to learn!
IM me if you'd like a larger version to work on.....but I'd ask that you only post a small file & only use it for this. (yeah, I'm a tad protective...but it's my lively hood ;) |
Thanks, sent you an email. |
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07/11/2004 02:09:24 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by ACPhotoDesign:
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
In a group of great photos, they were unique and very well executed simultaneously. |
I especially liked this one. It was one of my few 10 votes because of the meaningful subject matter, the great title and the excellent photographic mastery it demonstrated. I was surprised it didn't do better. |
I couldn't agree more.
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07/11/2004 02:03:28 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
In a group of great photos, they were unique and very well executed simultaneously. |
I especially liked this one. It was one of my few 10 votes because of the meaningful subject matter, the great title and the excellent photographic mastery it demonstrated. I was surprised it didn't do better.
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07/11/2004 07:38:10 AM · #5 |
I did feel a little let down that I didn't get my goal of 6.0, but
considering that I still got my highest score in a competition that
was very tough with all the great images. Overall I feel pretty good
about the June free study. For a first time there were a few who selected my pic as a favorite! (Thank you!) I would like to have seen
it score a little higher, but then again who wouldn't like to see there
pic score higher:)
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07/11/2004 07:24:42 AM · #6 |
Here are some I think were robbed:
     
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07/11/2004 07:15:51 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
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Thanks :) I was quite disappointed with the final score I got, but I was expecting it really.
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=105877 see this thread for details and stuff :)
Message edited by author 2004-07-11 07:17:45.
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07/11/2004 01:09:45 AM · #8 |
Hope you don't mind, but I love to play in PS. Here's my version:
-danny
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see. |
Can I see what I can do with the sky with Curves? |
If you'd like :o) I've gotten much better with PS, but there is alway something new to learn!
IM me if you'd like a larger version to work on.....but I'd ask that you only post a small file & only use it for this. (yeah, I'm a tad protective...but it's my lively hood ;) |
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07/10/2004 08:15:14 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see. |
Can I see what I can do with the sky with Curves? |
If you'd like :o) I've gotten much better with PS, but there is alway something new to learn!
IM me if you'd like a larger version to work on.....but I'd ask that you only post a small file & only use it for this. (yeah, I'm a tad protective...but it's my lively hood ;)
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07/10/2004 05:14:34 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see. |
Can I see what I can do with the sky with Curves? |
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07/10/2004 03:15:06 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see.
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Wow, I'm impressed what you did with that. While there may still be room for improvement as far as the B&W treatment goes (an area I haven't been able to figure out yet), you took what was really kind of a bland picture and gave it quite a bit of character. Nice work. |
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07/10/2004 03:08:56 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I don't think of it as a hard & fast rule that you must find one at each end of the scale in each challenge.
My point is to use the whole scale and not arbitrarily cut off a couple of points at one end or the other. |
She is using the whole scale. She just gives a 10 a higher weight (as is, its a harder standard to achieve) than other folks. While I'm not quite as stingy ;) with my 10s, I generally agree with her. I give out few 10s, and reserve them for photos that really blow me away. I'm just a little more easily blown away.
I think she (and maybe myself) are more than balanced out by the overly high votes. I got five 10s and thirteen 9s on my Water Dance shot. While I appreciate them, I personally don't think that shot deserved a 10, and maybe not even a 9. However, on the other hand, I think a 6.3 was a pretty fair final score, so in the end it all balanced out this time. |
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07/10/2004 02:43:12 PM · #13 |
Since the discussion started here, I just wanted to post a thank you to the additional comments I recieved. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to detail your thoughts. There were several mentions of the "bland sky"...and well...it was...lol Here is the orig for you to see.
Storms were just moving out & there was an all around thin white layer of covering clouds. It would have taken a lot more dodging & burning to make it more dramatic...which I did try, but thought it then looked over done & fake...probably a combination of there being little variation in the sky to play off & my level of PS dodge/burn abilities.
Some of the comments are a matter of personal preference (ex: the border works well....The border doesn't work here ;) For those I'll just need to go with what I like.
Some gave me much food for thought. I'll need to do a bit more investigating of B&W. Maybe I'll even try it with B&W film on the med format ;) Some experienced the tone I was shooting for when viewing it & some felt the image seemed split, so there may be a way to improve that. I'll most likely go back & try different angles to see what they look like.
This should keep my busy for a while :o)
Again, many thanks! This was some of the best constructive critisism I've ever gotten!
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07/10/2004 01:39:45 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
To me, the best isn't always a 10 and the worst is not always a 1. I believe in the free study my worst was a 3. For me, as long as the image has some photographic merit it deserves better than a 1. My votes have gone up over the last while as I learn more about what to look for. My opinion, you don't have to agree. |
I don't think of it as a hard & fast rule that you must find one at each end of the scale in each challenge.
My point is to use the whole scale and not arbitrarily cut off a couple of points at one end or the other. |
As I've said twice in this thread already, I have not set a limit on how high I will vote. I said I rarely give 9's or 10s. Rarely does not mean never and there is nothing arbitrary about it. I agree with cpanaioti that the best in a challenge is not necessarily a 10. Some times my top picks in a challenge only receive a 7. Sometimes my highest vote is a 6. It isn't arbitrary at all. It depends on what is being offered for me to look at and how much I enjoy it.
When you look at the voting averages of the multi-ribbon winners you notice that their averages aren't in the 8, 9, or 10 range so obviously there are a lot of people who vote the way I do. JJBeguin has 7 blue ribbons, 6 reds, and 7 yellows, and his average vote received is
5.9268.
Another thing to consider about my voting method is that I don't automatically give a 1 or 2 if I think a photo fails to meet the challenge. Some of the same people who generously give out 10's give out 1's for failing to meet the challenge.
In sports like skating and gymnastics, the judges don't automatically give out 10's to a great performance, even in the Olympics where presumably they are judging the best of the best. |
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07/10/2004 12:36:37 PM · #15 |
Other than the winners circle, this is the first time I've looked at the June Free Study submissions. I'm so glad I didn't enter. When 37th place is a most amazing photograph of nature with perfect timing, detail, etc. I wouldn't have even made the top 100. Also, I really hesitate entering member's challenges period because there is so much PS manipulation allowed but that is another thread.
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07/10/2004 11:47:21 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
To me, the best isn't always a 10 and the worst is not always a 1. I believe in the free study my worst was a 3. For me, as long as the image has some photographic merit it deserves better than a 1. My votes have gone up over the last while as I learn more about what to look for. My opinion, you don't have to agree. |
I don't think of it as a hard & fast rule that you must find one at each end of the scale in each challenge.
My point is to use the whole scale and not arbitrarily cut off a couple of points at one end or the other. |
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07/10/2004 11:23:59 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by C-Fox:
Originally posted by willem:
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Wow! I have never been in the robbed category either. Thanks Willem! I posted another one of the little fellow in my porfolio, if you want to look. |
I will!
I left you a comment on the pic |
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07/10/2004 09:50:57 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by willem:
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Wow! I have never been in the robbed category either. Thanks Willem! I posted another one of the little fellow in my porfolio, if you want to look. |
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07/10/2004 09:11:14 AM · #19 |
Wow, I made the robbed list :)
Thanks!
Message edited by author 2004-07-10 09:11:35. |
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07/10/2004 07:42:41 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
There is, in every challenge, a best and worst entry. Determine which is which by your own standards but give them there due by the same scale that everyone uses to score your entries.
It would make the results a little more valid for all of us if you did.
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To me, the best isn't always a 10 and the worst is not always a 1. I believe in the free study my worst was a 3. For me, as long as the image has some photographic merit it deserves better than a 1. My votes have gone up over the last while as I learn more about what to look for. My opinion, you don't have to agree.
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07/10/2004 02:18:00 AM · #21 |
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07/10/2004 02:16:34 AM · #22 |
I have no disagreement with your having strict standards, not at all. Most would say mine are strict also, as evidenced
by my Avg Vote Cast. I have remarked similiarly in the past when people have said that they never give votes of 1 or 2,
or that they just pass on the images they think should get a 1 or 2. I'm just saying that the scale here at dpc is 1 thru
10 and not to use all the levels skews the results. There is, in every challenge, a best and worst entry. Determine
which is which by your own standards but give them there due by the same scale that everyone uses to score your entries.
It would make the results a little more valid for all of us if you did.
I'd like to compliment you for making so many comments. I am no where close to you in number but, like you, take pride
in having a healthy percentage marked as helpful. |
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07/10/2004 01:31:59 AM · #23 |
A final word in defense of my voting process and then I'm signing off. Here are my comments stats. Keep in mind I have only been actively participating in the voting and challenges since late April of this year.
Made: 1015
* Helpful: 642
More than half of the comments I've made were marked helpful. I'm not a math person so I don't know the exact percentage but I don't think that is a bad number when one takes in to consideration the number of people who don't check the box or only check for positive comments are comments they find truly helpful (i.e., they plan to use the advice, something was intended that is pointed out as a flaw, etc).
Since I try to very hard to comment on the images I score low I think I make up for my strict standards.
I just noticed, Coolhar, that your average vote cast isn't that much higher than mine. Yours is 4.5559 to my 4.3714. I vote on every single entry whenever possible (I did for the June challenge).
Message edited by author 2004-07-10 01:35:20. |
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07/10/2004 01:18:22 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
You are correct in saying that your voting system, with the top two levels clipped off, is balanced out by others who
vote relatively high when compared to the group as a whole. But it is self-serving on the individual level. None of
us will have the opportunity to get a 9 or a 10 from you if we have a deserving entry but we don't know which entry
is yours so we cannot treat you the same and limit your top possible score to an 8. I, for one, don't think the
challenges are intented to measure an entry against all the classic images you have ever seen, but rather against
the other people who enter here. |
I have actually given a few 9's although I don't think I've given any 10's. I don't see how it is self-serving to vote that way. The occasional 9 and 10's I receive don't seem to be bringing my averages up by much. The photos that I gave 7's to for the most part did quite well and Heida won the Blue. The other photo I gave an 8 to placed quite low. I doubt my upping the score to a 9 or 10 would have benefited that photographer much other than the gratification of seeing that someone gave it a 9 or 10.
At any rate, I said I may change my voting process in the future. Since the 1-10 scale is a classic type of rating system, it is hard to look at it from a strictly DPC level. I didn't say I would never give a 9 or 10. It is not a strict limit I have imposed on myself. I just said, I rarely give them out. What if a true 10 comes along (true by the standards I can't help using)? It could happen. I think I vote very fairly, since I try to be consistant. This means that there will be challenges where I give very few scores higher than 6. In a recent Open challenge, I didn't give any photos higher than a 6. In the June Challenge, people had a month to prepare, and I think my voting reflects the higher than usual quality (plus there were no challenge specifics to interfere with pure enjoyment of an image). I gave 2 8's and twenty-three 7's. That is about 18 to 10 times more 7's than I usually give. I gave many, many more 6's. Let me just explain that I vote according to whether Iike an image, not just whether it is sharp with decent color saturation. Composition and content are very important to me, and quite frankly, while I see many images that are well-focused and sharp, the majority of images just aren't that compelling to me, asthetically. Since I view photography as an art, not a science, I can't help voting the way I vote. I am obviously in the minority on DPC so I as I said, it balances out in the end. My work tends to be more about composition than flawless pixels (partly because I've been using a camera with under 2 mp) so I tend to receive quite a few 4's, 3's, and 2's for images that other people have given 8s, 9's, and 10's. This is why I laugh when I'm accused of tilting the balance in my favor. After 15 challenges I have only placed in the top 10 percent once and in the top 50 percent twice (and that was on the low end of the range). By DPC standards, as a photographer, I am below average. Few people seem to be lowering their standards when voting on my images, so why should I lower mine? This is not grumpiness or sour grapes talking. I've come to accept that my photos will never be a hit on DPC. I'm just pointing out that I'm obviously not the only person that has strict standards. I think my skills are at least average but rarely do my scores reflect that. My average vote received to date is 4.9194.
Here is the breakdown of votes for the only other image I gave an 8 to.
1 1
2 4
3 19
4 44
5 57
6 45
7 17
8 12
9 3
10 7
Obviously, the majority of voters did not agree with my asthetic on this image. Quite a few thought it was below average. This is almost universally the case with most challenges. I frequently find myself groaning to find pictures that I thought were the best of the bunch ranking in the lower 50th percent. Why? Because the majority of voters are handing out 8s, 9s, and 10s to photos I think of as 5s, 4s, and often 3s. I could complain about this but that only causes dissent and accusations of elitism, so I keep my mouth shut now. I only offered the information I did by way of congratulating the high number of truly good images for this challenge.
I'm sorry you don't agree with my method but I'm not going to lower my standards to suit a rather subject notion of what is fair. Let me just point out, that as a kid, I hated getting handicap points when playing games with older kids or adults. I think voting from the mindset that we are all beginners (which simply isn't true) would be unfair and condescending.
In the end, the 1-10 range is very relative. To pose an analogy; ERs use the 1-10 (or 1-5) scale to get an idea of the pain a person is experiencing, 1 being none the highest number being the worst you've ever felt. People have different thresholds for pain tolerance. My son and I have rather high thresholds, my daughter has a pretty low threshold. My 3 level of pain could very easily be her 6.
By the way, I feel my June Challenge entry is pretty much where it belongs. I was not totally satisfied with that photo and I tried to change it last minute but the clock on my computer was set a few minutes slower than DPC (I fixed that ;-D).
Message edited by author 2004-07-10 01:22:29. |
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07/10/2004 12:04:38 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Patents4u:
...should've placed much higher....
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I'm honored to have had my photo mentioned in one of your three. :) Thank you!
Sonya |
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