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10/22/2010 10:00:50 PM · #1 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, I'd have to echo Don, although I suspect you were using the terms figuratively.
Hey Don, don't you underground types just try to make sure the lenscap isn't on? :D |
Unless we've poked holes in the lenscap. Then it's fair game. |
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10/22/2010 04:20:34 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I use what I call my default auto mode. I shoot in A mode, use the exposure compensation, and auto WB & auto ISO with the switch to the higher ISO set at 1/15. I shoot in RAW, and the only exception to my default mode is when I have the luxury of time and setting what I want, then I shoot full manual to get what I want. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Auto WB and and Auto ISO are independent of the mode dial, you can use them in any mode. Av ought to work better for you than A, because then you'd have the luxury of knowing what one of your parameters is at all times. You can get an image just as quickly in Av as in A, and be within acceptable parameters if Auto ISO is kicking in at the limit of your ability to hand hold the WA lens. I don't think I could stand not knowing what my DOF is gonna be until after I shoot the picture.
I keep my camera at f/8, Av, when it's not in active use.
R. |
I'm shooting Nikon......A is aperture priority. It has A, S, P, & M.....Aperture, Shutter, Program, & Manual.
I merely mentioned the ISO & WB as two of the parameteres of my "default" auto mode.
Of course I want to control my DOF!
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10/22/2010 02:39:02 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, I'd have to echo Don, although I suspect you were using the terms figuratively.
Hey Don, don't you underground types just try to make sure the lenscap isn't on? :D |
Sure, the "engines" are all digital, but the sensory input is analog in the case of a pointer on a scale. No numbers to be interpreted, direct visual feedback. Remember when there was no such thing as a digital watch? To this day, I prefer analog wristwatches to digital ones...
R. |
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10/22/2010 02:28:07 PM · #4 |
Ya, I'd have to echo Don, although I suspect you were using the terms figuratively.
Hey Don, don't you underground types just try to make sure the lenscap isn't on? :D |
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10/22/2010 01:54:27 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
 PennyClick just pointed out something interesting:
When you shoot Av or Tv, the shutter speed/aperture setting, in the form of a number, is the only thing in the viewfinder window that changes as you pan a scene (or as the light changes). That's "digital" information, and it reflects changes that the camera has already made in the exposure; you then choose whether to accept the changes (do nothing) or modify the settings (EV compensation).
When you shoot Manual, the only thing in the viewfinder window that changes as you pan a scene (or as the light changes) is the position of a pointer on a scale at the bottom of the window; this is precisely analogous to the needle on a light meeter in the "old days" — it's "analog" information (like the hands on a clock dial) and it gives you a direct, visual referent as to the changing luminance of the scene; the pointer shows you, directly, changes in the lighting, without actually making any changes in the exposure settings. You make the changes in the settings to position the pointer where you want it.
That's a perspective (analog vs digital) I hadn't quite connected with before she said this, but it's absolutely correct; when you work with manual exposure, you're using direct, analog feedback on light values to make your decisions. It's a very intuitive process, and it's why I like the M setting so much.
R. |
It's all digital, I'm afraid. |
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10/22/2010 11:17:56 AM · #6 |
PennyClick just pointed out something interesting:
When you shoot Av or Tv, the shutter speed/aperture setting, in the form of a number, is the only thing in the viewfinder window that changes as you pan a scene (or as the light changes). That's "digital" information, and it reflects changes that the camera has already made in the exposure; you then choose whether to accept the changes (do nothing) or modify the settings (EV compensation).
When you shoot Manual, the only thing in the viewfinder window that changes as you pan a scene (or as the light changes) is the position of a pointer on a scale at the bottom of the window; this is precisely analogous to the needle on a light meeter in the "old days" — it's "analog" information (like the hands on a clock dial) and it gives you a direct, visual referent as to the changing luminance of the scene; the pointer shows you, directly, changes in the lighting, without actually making any changes in the exposure settings. You make the changes in the settings to position the pointer where you want it.
That's a perspective (analog vs digital) I hadn't quite connected with before she said this, but it's absolutely correct; when you work with manual exposure, you're using direct, analog feedback on light values to make your decisions. It's a very intuitive process, and it's why I like the M setting so much.
R. |
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10/22/2010 10:48:23 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
One thing I'd add is that if you watch your shutter speed carefully when metering in aperture priority (or vice versa for shutter priority) you can literally be looking at a scene and without changing your camera position/perspective/composition watch it flip between shutter values due to nuanced changes in the scene that you may not even be aware of. That's a 1/3 stop change in a fraction of a second. |
Oh, you better believe it; that's what got me back to manual for most of my work, was watching that happen. It was a real "Aha!" moment for me.
R. |
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10/22/2010 12:29:39 AM · #8 |
That was well said, and is essentially why I almost always shoot in M mode.
Here is a situation where I find M very useful and is in line with what Robert said below: If I'm outside trying to take photos of my daughter riding her bike and she is in the shadow of the house and trees, I know exactly what to set. But if I'm shooting and all of a sudden I'm panning to the point where there is part of the brightly lit house in the background, Av could easily change the exposure to compensate for the new average. I'd rather have that area blown than the subject to dark.
Heh...usually when that happens and I get too annoyed, I go back in and pull out the flash to compensate. :)
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This means, when using Ev compensation, you literally need to be re-evaluating your parameters for every shot if conditions are changing at all. Now, in and of itself this isn't a bad thing (it's always good to be thinking about what we're doing), but when you're working in a hurry you don't have that luxury. So the M option is much more useful a lot of the time, since you can calculate your base exposure for an entire scene in a leisurely manner then lock it in and shoot to your heart's content knowing every exposure of that scene will be pretty much useful out-of-the-camera, since you have calculated and applied an exposure that, *in this particular light*, will render zone 6 as zone 6 and zone 3 as zone 3.
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10/22/2010 12:25:49 AM · #9 |
| Aperture priority with exposure compensation for me 95% of the time. Manual for the occasional odd lighting situation for challenges (even then I use aperture priority to measure a starting point). |
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10/22/2010 12:16:53 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This is what the kitchen utensil guy was talking about, but in a little more hands-on terms :-)
R. |
Yes, much more of an application based explanation there, Robert. One thing I'd add is that if you watch your shutter speed carefully when metering in aperture priority (or vice versa for shutter priority) you can literally be looking at a scene and without changing your camera position/perspective/composition watch it flip between shutter values due to nuanced changes in the scene that you may not even be aware of. That's a 1/3 stop change in a fraction of a second.
Same thing applies to iTTL- you'll notice minor changes in output even if things don't change. |
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10/21/2010 11:56:03 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
When I was shooting with njsabs she showed me a cool tip. When you are in really bright sunlight, you get very close to your model, and half press the shutter button in p-mode and you will see the settings that you need to be at to get proper exposure on your model. pretty cool. |
Awesome tip!!! I guess I'll start using p from time to time :-) |
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10/21/2010 11:28:08 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there any difference in M mode and using the exposure compensation in Av mode? I would think they were pretty comparable, but the Av mode has the benefit of more likely getting a good exposure if you suddenly just have to point and shoot at something. |
You're familiar with incident light metering, right? With the little hemispherical dome? reads the light falling on a scene, and gives you the correct exposure to render tones faithfully. A Zone 4 will reproduce as a Zone $, a six as a six, not adjusting necessary. With reflected metering (what our cameras use) the camera doesn't know what it's poionted at — is it a bright light on a dark surface, or a dim light on a bright surface? So the camera assumes that the average of everything it's metering is a Zone 5, middle gray, and gives you an exposure based on that.
So, out in the real world, you meter a scene in Av, see there's a lot of bright areas in it, and use +1.5 EV to render the bright tones where they belong. So far, so good. But then, with the same + 1.5 compensation set, you change the framing so there's significantly less of the really bright areas and more of some much darker areas. Unless you change the compensation, you're going to overexpose the darker areas and blow the bright areas out.
This means, when using Ev compensation, you literally need to be re-evaluating your parameters for every shot if conditions are changing at all. Now, in and of itself this isn't a bad thing (it's always good to be thinking about what we're doing), but when you're working in a hurry you don't have that luxury. So the M option is much more useful a lot of the time, since you can calculate your base exposure for an entire scene in a leisurely manner then lock it in and shoot to your heart's content knowing every exposure of that scene will be pretty much useful out-of-the-camera, since you have calculated and applied an exposure that, *in this particular light*, will render zone 6 as zone 6 and zone 3 as zone 3.
This is what the kitchen utensil guy was talking about, but in a little more hands-on terms :-)
R. |
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10/21/2010 11:15:19 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by salmiakki:
nikon A = Canon Av |
Ahhhh, that explains it. For some reason I was thinking A for Auto...
R. |
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10/21/2010 09:58:48 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
When I was shooting with njsabs she showed me a cool tip. When you are in really bright sunlight, you get very close to your model, and half press the shutter button in p-mode and you will see the settings that you need to be at to get proper exposure on your model. pretty cool. |
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but there is nothing particular to this about P mode...
Any time you meter, your camera is telling you what settings are needed for "proper" exposure; even in M...
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10/21/2010 09:58:33 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Mick:
I shoot everything in B mode. It takes years and years of training though. |
AHAHahahahah Your my Hero!!!!
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10/21/2010 09:50:19 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there any difference in M mode and using the exposure compensation in Av mode? I would think they were pretty comparable, but the Av mode has the benefit of more likely getting a good exposure if you suddenly just have to point and shoot at something. |
Well, the difference is that since you can ignore light changes in M mode, you eliminate the chance of the camera being fooled by changing scenes (like vawendy noted). Lest we forget, there is not any one set exposure that is correct, so if a user is doing several shots under the same circumstances they can set things as needed. How is this different from exposure comp? The settings will not change regardless of what the camera metering is saying, whereas in Aperture priority with exposure comp your shutter speed may vary based on what the camera is metering, causing you to get an over/underexposed shot because of a metering quirk you weren't expecting. You're right about the speed of Av mode, but that's assuming the camera meters how you want it to. Obviously a lot of using aperture mode effectively is having a feel for how your camera will meter and when it is prone to errors, but if you look through a bunch of shots in the same environment you'll notice occasional variances in things. |
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10/21/2010 05:23:44 PM · #17 |
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10/21/2010 05:10:34 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I use what I call my default auto mode. I shoot in A mode, use the exposure compensation, and auto WB & auto ISO with the switch to the higher ISO set at 1/15. I shoot in RAW, and the only exception to my default mode is when I have the luxury of time and setting what I want, then I shoot full manual to get what I want. |
Auto WB and and Auto ISO are independent of the mode dial, you can use them in any mode. Av ought to work better for you than A, because then you'd have the luxury of knowing what one of your parameters is at all times. You can get an image just as quickly in Av as in A, and be within acceptable parameters if Auto ISO is kicking in at the limit of your ability to hand hold the WA lens. I don't think I could stand not knowing what my DOF is gonna be until after I shoot the picture.
I keep my camera at f/8, Av, when it's not in active use.
R. |
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10/21/2010 05:01:13 PM · #19 |
On my DSLR, I never P. I almost always A.
On my point and shoot, I do whatever it tells me to, except for disabling the flash which seems to be always ready to broadcast any stealth photography. Well, I also try to remember to get it out of M(ovie) which it seems to want to default to whenever I'm careless about shoving it back into its little carrying case. |
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10/21/2010 04:51:50 PM · #20 |
I use what I call my default auto mode. I shoot in A mode, use the exposure compensation, and auto WB & auto ISO with the switch to the higher ISO set at 1/15. I shoot in RAW, and the only exception to my default mode is when I have the luxury of time and setting what I want, then I shoot full manual to get what I want. It's something that I figured out a couple years ago as I want to be able to grab my camera, turn it on, and shoot when I get one of those once-in-a-blue-moon opportunities. I take my camera with me everywhere, so those come up more than you'd think. It took me a while to get the perfect meld (for me) of settings that would work best for the limitations of myself and my camera. It just makes sense to me to take advantage of that expensive processor in my camera.
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10/21/2010 03:06:59 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by posthumous:
What are you guys talking about? M does no exposure checking at all. |
But the internal light meter still gives you exposure information. It just leaves it to you as to whether you pay attention to it or not. |
My camera has only an electronic viewfinder, so it automatically previews the exposure with a half-press on the shutter.
I've been shooting mostly in manual for a few months, even when being in P mode would be advantageous because I can't change the manual settings fast enough to compensate with changing conditions. Otherwise, I shoot with Tv when speed is my priority, and Av when DOF is critical but I don't have time to fiddle with the full manual settings (sports, animals, street candids etc.).
Message edited by author 2010-10-21 15:11:02. |
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10/21/2010 03:05:04 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
What are you guys talking about? M does no exposure checking at all. |
But the internal light meter still gives you exposure information. It just leaves it to you as to whether you pay attention to it or not. |
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10/21/2010 02:58:54 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there any difference in M mode and using the exposure compensation in Av mode? I would think they were pretty comparable, but the Av mode has the benefit of more likely getting a good exposure if you suddenly just have to point and shoot at something. |
One of the differences is that in Av exposure compensation is limited by most cameras to two or three stops - can't think of much else! |
What are you guys talking about? M does no exposure checking at all. |
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10/21/2010 12:48:26 PM · #24 |
Av or manual with the lenses that have that option, and all manual with the rest of my pile of older Ai glass. My Fuji don't even meter with the manual glass, so my usual procedure is to guess a starting point from experience and chimp the first couple of shots to see what's going to the card, adjust accordingly.
Here's a tip for manual night shooting. Darken the LCD a click or two, so your darkness adjusted eyes will not be causing you to underexpose when you see the brightness of the images in the LCD. I shoot JPG, so underexposure is a problem re noise, making correct exposure even more important.
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10/21/2010 12:21:56 PM · #25 |
M 99.99 % but I set the aperture to the situation or desired effect and adjust the shutter accordingly. I usually evaluate the light of the scene TTL and further adjust the shutter. For situations where I need shutter priority, I still work in M, but set the aperture appropriately. ISO is also always set.
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