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06/25/2004 09:06:18 AM · #1 |
Originally posted by Natator:
What I find very amusing though is that, following all the big noting and explaining how experienced and professional he is .... the entry he put in is really pretty poor and placed about where I would have put it in the field ... low.
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How do you know? Voting is still going on for the desat challenge!
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06/24/2004 08:55:06 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Glacierwolf:
This should serve as an example ... |
Quite ... although the comment you left me did tell me what you found wrong with my photo, and was thus "helpful," I can't help but wonder, when you wrote those other less-than constructive comments, what were YOU thinking? |
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06/24/2004 08:46:36 PM · #3 |
I have only just caught up on all this fuss, probably read a third of this thread before my head almost exploded. I also did not have an entry in, so have no vested interest there.
To me the comments might have potentially been constructive, some were some were not, but in either case comments like "what were you thinking, duh!" are just plain stupid, as is not realising how people might take issue with them. It's just a case of having the ability to communicate like an adult or not. It's a shame, as without those portions of the comment many look like they would have been good and the person receiving them would have been much more likely to take them on board.
What I find very amusing though is that, following all the big noting and explaining how experienced and professional he is .... the entry he put in is really pretty poor and placed about where I would have put it in the field ... low.
If he had applied some of his own assessment on his own photo I am sure he could have improved it significantly, at least to the point where it could be classed as "average".
I have to therefore wonder if the negativity in the comments were partially the result of an ego being bruised as his entry slipped further and further away from the blue ribbon he was expecting, and some people do take the "If I pout others down, surely that must put me above them" approach.
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06/24/2004 08:07:21 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I can't believe you are all throwing a fit over this. LOL...what a joke.
I think you are all made because you got your toes stepped on. Hurts but who else is going to tell you that your photo sucks? Can you learn from "nice photo". I think this guy is right on.
I want comments that will give me another idea of how to take a picture. What could I have used to make it different. That is something that I don't get from John Setlzer. |
And just how does the comment, "What were you thinking?" with nothing else attached help give you a new idea how to shoot a shot? I can handle the tough critique but I can't stand the rude critique, again, there is a difference.
I have no problem with some of his critiques, he has shown he can be tough, constructive and helpful without being rude, but this last rash of comments are just that, rude and there's no reason for that.
Deannda
The man can be helpful without being rude, he's proven that
Edited for spelling
Message edited by author 2004-06-24 21:06:40. |
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06/24/2004 02:15:44 PM · #5 |
I can't believe you are all throwing a fit over this. LOL...what a joke.
I think you are all made because you got your toes stepped on. Hurts but who else is going to tell you that your photo sucks? Can you learn from "nice photo". I think this guy is right on.
I want comments that will give me another idea of how to take a picture. What could I have used to make it different. That is something that I don't get from John Setlzer.
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06/24/2004 03:20:03 AM · #6 |
| I find it very very emberassing (?) what's happening with the comments on Kevins pictures. If this is meant to teach him a lesson, i think it won't. It just makes the atmosphere here ever more harsh. If you find this guy is out of line, don't lower yourself to his level. Be the bigger one and ignore. |
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06/24/2004 02:00:05 AM · #7 |
I don't agree with the action taken against you BUT If you live by the sword you die by the sword.
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06/24/2004 01:56:50 AM · #8 |
For all of those who have spoken here or emailed me asking to 'tone down' my comments and change my writting style.......... I invite you to please visit my profile and see the comments that have just recently been left by a half dozen individuals on all my pictures and past entires.
This should serve as an example and warning of what happens when you speak your mind on this site. So please, for your own sake - just keep writting those 'nice shot' comments if you must, keep your ideas in the forums to yourself, and this won't happen to you.
Thanks oskar (a past ribbon winner), mavrik, xion, heida, Beagleboy, and nazqul for trashing all my pictures because you disagree with my opinion. You must represent the true spirit of DPChallenge - the cream of the crop here - I am sure everyone is proud of what you've accomplished. Bravo!
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06/24/2004 01:43:08 AM · #9 |
Kevin, if I may ask again;
Are you CPO Kevin McCarthy, COMMSTA Kodiak?
I'm guessing you're not since you didn't answer earlier. |
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06/24/2004 01:20:05 AM · #10 |
One thing is obvious about DPChallenge after reading this entire thread. There is a wide spectrum of people here, and, everyone joined for something different.
I give an honest opinion based on the effort presented. Not a 'nice shot' and click a 2.
Kevin
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06/24/2004 12:45:41 AM · #11 |
| Is it not time that we close this thread for good. Let us hope that there is reconsideration to keep the forum civil. There is no need to insult or bash. Those that insult will fall under heavy scrutiny and will pay dearly for their oversights. Mark my words: there will be oversights. And what is the objective? Our desire is to learn and those with more experience should keep quiet if they are too impatient to offer their knowledge and advise. We are dealing with many different temperements and talking down to people has never been shown to make a better person or better photographer. let us rethink this and close this thread once and for all. |
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06/24/2004 12:26:35 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Glacierwolf:
Three or four submissions I wish I could have given negative numbers to. Which one did I dislike the most? I can’t say now – but – as soon as this challenge voting is ended I am going to write about it. It showed the utmost lack of imagination possible - something I see allot on this site. |
God damn, not everyone's an expert photographer like you I guess then. Why are being so critical? Do you really think it's appropriate to "point out the picture you disliked the most"? Really constructive. Some people are just learning so give 'em a break and don't embarrass them just to make yourself feel better.
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06/23/2004 10:43:24 PM · #13 |
The most interesting part of this post is looking back at the positions people took on the issue, and then looking at their own average vote cast. Hilarious that some of the harshest critics have some of the highest average vote cast, and some of those promoting sugar coating have some of the lowest average vote cast.
Which is the worse; the person who calls you lame and scores you 5, or the person who says "nice pic" and gives you a 2?
( More bonus points for Eddy as I'm sure he's already predicted someone would bring that up )
Obviously though this post isn't about average vote casts, it's about not being offensive. To which I believe the Site Admins could quickly find a solution to prevent this from being a future issue. I see so many issues that keep coming up repetively every 3-4 weeks, why not find solutions where possible?
Build into the ToS agreement that comments upon photographs submitted during a challenge can only be directed toward the photograph. Disallow comments directed toward the photographer; skill, intelligence, or state of mind etc. Make it enforceable only upon the complaint of the person who received the offending comment, and allow for a quick SC review process.
A person could still feel insulted by a comment but I feel that if the comment is directed toward the photograph and not the photographer; perhaps the person feeling offended needs thicker skin.
Kevin isn't the first person to write offending comments and most likely not the last. Comments like his date back to the beginings of DPC and there's numerous threads on the mb that deal with them. Why not find a resolution?
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06/23/2004 06:33:42 PM · #14 |
la, la, la...la...la, la, La, La...La, La...la, La, La, la-la,La-la, La-La...la, LA, LA-LA, LA-LA-LA, LA-La, la...la, la...
:-D
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06/23/2004 05:59:23 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by chiqui74:
Well, it occured to me that not only did GW have a very set opinion about what selective desaturation should be and has no imagination whatsoever, he also left the exact same comments on most of the entries, which suggest to me that he either copied and pasted the comments or something of that sort. He didn't take the time to comment on the "faults" of individual pictures but rather had a set of generic comments that he posted over and over again. This is totally pathetic and it makes me think that his intention when he first started voting and commenting was to trash the entries. I don't know if I made any sense, but that's just my 2 cents.
June |
This was the impression I got. I don't believe that he deliberately set out to trash the other entries--just that he copied and pasted his remarks (or may as well have) which indicates a lack of imagination and callousness toward the individual and not a real curiosity about the work of another photographer whose approach may be outside his own comfort zone. |
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06/23/2004 05:57:55 PM · #16 |
I am officially using the "Ignore thread" option on this.. im tired of reading it
I hope many other do the same
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06/23/2004 05:53:41 PM · #17 |
HEY!!!!! just came across this in the forums and to no surprise i knew this was about GW. I recieved a lot of very nice comments on my march free study until i came across his.....
GW---"You have a high tech digital camera and the entire month of March to take a decent picture - and the best you could do was the top of some lumber from Home Depot? It's the photographer that makes the picture - you need to work on your creativity or start visiting places where interesting things happen you can photogpraph!"
C'mon GW......lets face it i looked at your profile and all i can say is DUH! my 5 year old daughter takes better ones than that!! And she has been taking photos since 4!!
yes i was being creative on this pic....and it WAS supposed to be unusual. even someone who has over 15 ribbons here a DP gave me a ten.
Dude..you retired from the military.....should have left the attitude with..
and yes i have every right to say this because i was in the military...
there is my two cents.......
Message edited by author 2004-06-23 17:56:00. |
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06/23/2004 04:51:43 PM · #18 |
Wow, let me just take a moment to marvel at the LOOOONG thread that this has become. Looks like a lot of people were shocked like me when I received a long, somewhat insightful, yet terribly rude comment from GlacierWolf. It was quite an out of place comment, everyone else was being supportive, and even those that had a few bones to pick with my photo did so in a humerous and friendly manner. Like leaving a happy face next to a comment, or a wink to let me know that they are just being helpful. I agree that some photos were not great, but that has always been the case. My photos weren't great when I first started, but we are all improving.
Personally, I don't think he knows how to appreciate art. It should be understood that art is all relative (with fundamental structures and techniques), but still, mostly subjective. I think he went around and voted people down based on guidlines that are very personal and didn't take into account that other people may have seen their work differently. It's become a habit of mine to look at the commenter's portfolio to see their work and vary how I should take their comments. It is true that a persona might be a better patron of art than a photographer, but if the person is such a good judge of what is art, then they should know that their own work isn't great and wouldn't have submitted it expecting a good result. So, from looking at his portfolio, I was to some degree relieved that this was an isolated incident. I do take all comments seriously, but it's just these very harmful comments which I don't think are warranted on this website. I'm sure many newcomers would be turned off and would abandon the process if we aren't supportive. But I still want people to be critical, just do it in a respectful manner.
Good luck everyone on voting. I'm hoping more comments are on the way. |
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06/23/2004 04:24:53 PM · #19 |
| who wants to set the odds that at least 1 out of the top 3 have a "what were you thinking" comment. |
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06/23/2004 02:37:47 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Crafty Sue:
Maybe we all need to get a life. |
We did! Come hang out with us all in the beer thread. I think Oly was chasing laurieblack around last I looked. ;)
Clara
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06/23/2004 02:29:45 PM · #21 |
I can't believe this thread is still going I thought by now it would be locked. It is threads like this that almost made me leave DPC. I do not believe these discussions should go on while voting is going on because
these threads have a impact on the voting Maybe we all need to get a life. |
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06/23/2004 01:40:29 PM · #22 |
Well, it occured to me that not only did GW have a very set opinion about what selective desaturation should be and has no imagination whatsoever, he also left the exact same comments on most of the entries, which suggest to me that he either copied and pasted the comments or something of that sort. He didn't take the time to comment on the "faults" of individual pictures but rather had a set of generic comments that he posted over and over again. This is totally pathetic and it makes me think that his intention when he first started voting and commenting was to trash the entries. I don't know if I made any sense, but that's just my 2 cents.
June
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06/23/2004 01:18:54 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by melismatica:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I also remember the thread that you started where you had a bit of a fit about the results of the banana challenge. I felt bad for you because you were bashed as he is here. I don't think that it's wrong to get emotionally upset or passionate about a subject, image or what have you, and it may be good for purposes of discussion, but when it's starts to be an attack against a person, well, I have to question that. |
The difference is, I was quickly abashed at my impulsive action and made ammends. Once I did that, I was given the benefit of the doubt that the behaviour isn't a pattern for me, and the thread ended.
GW displayed zero humility or willingness to accept that his comments were hurtful and more likely to be perceived by all but the most thick-skinned sorts as destructive rather then instructive.
You feel he is being persecuted for his opinion but I maintain that many of his comments are unprovoked attacks on the various folks who were subjected to them. You claim his comments are directed at the photographs but I contest that comments like...
"You truly need new glasses or to invest in an auto focus camera."
and...
" I sure hope you are better with a shotgun than a camera."
...are clearly directed at the photographer and serve no useful purpose and only serve to obscure any good advice he may have given.
It is natural for a person or group to become defensive and angry once they have been provoked. If one is going to make inflammatory posts like his (and mine was) then one should be prepared to take the flak or apologize. He has shown no remorse for his unkind words. In fact he took perverse satisfaction in the muck he stirred up. Your sympathy is admirable but wasted on him. |
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No, I don't think he's persecuted for his opinion...I think it's because of his style, and it maybe that he is looking to attack, but I don't know if I would take it personally if one of his comments found it's way to one of my pics because he doesn't know to whom he is aiming his attacks at during the voting. So bottom line for me is, he may a jerk (and that's his problem), but he's got something to say, so I will listen and see if it applies, and then move on and forget the messenger, but not the message, knowing that I have gained something from it, hopefully.
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06/23/2004 01:12:47 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Maybe he's had a bad day, week or month...I don't know, but he also makes some valid points in his remarks. That is my point...even if you don't like his style of commenting there may be something to learn in what he's got to say and the people who are bashing him in this thread are bashing a person. He's bashing a picture. I think there's a difference.
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He may make valid points, but they are overshadowed by his rudeness.
It's not really a STYLE of commenting, it's just disrespectful and rude.
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06/23/2004 12:55:13 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by e301:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
It is best to desaturate a bit if it takes on an overpowering look. |
I disagree with this part of your post, my friend. To my mind, selective desaturation is the photographic equivalent of a poke in the eye with a sharp stick; blunting the end of the stick won't reduce the impact much, just make the bruising worse. |
That's why I felt so jumpy after looking at so many. LOL! I sure don't like the technique any better after this week. Maybe it is my ADHD wiring but these photos make me edgy like you wouldn't believe. |
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