Gov. Sanford - DPChallenge Forums

06/30/2009 09:21:28 PM · #26

Originally posted by neophyte:

It's simple for you. I see it as more complicated. I've made some pretty stupid decisions in my private life (No, I never cheated on my wife) but i doesn't affect my professionalism in my job.

You're right.....to me it is simple.

Integrity does not vary according to where you are, who you're with, and what you do.

06/30/2009 09:21:51 PM · #27

Originally posted by SandyP:

Ummmmmmmm. .. .yeah. . . .your private life reflects the type of person you are, and the character you have! Leaders ARE held to a higher standard -- but beyond the character requirements of being a leader -- this guy is a piece of work. Besides having a moral lapse in character, which could be (and many times has been) easily forgiveable -- but THEN, he adds cruel and dehumanizing insult to injury by making a statement in front of God and everyone that he's going to "try to fall back in love with his wife", and that when he dies, he will know that he's met his soul mate! Puhhhhleease. I mean, I am seriously the least judgmental person you could ever meet -- but just out of having compassion for another human being (his wife) -- I think this guy ought to be thrown out to Argentina forever -- and if Mrs. Sleazeball takes him back, I pity her total desperation and lack of self esteem. Grrrrr

Sorry, I'm stepping off my high horse now.

This just seems like a slippery slope. Where do we draw the line. Should police officers lose their job if they're ticketed for driving infractions. I'm just not sure.

Message edited by author 2009-06-30 21:22:45.

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

06/30/2009 09:25:34 PM · #28

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by neophyte:
It's simple for you. I see it as more complicated. I've made some pretty stupid decisions in my private life (No, I never cheated on my wife) but i doesn't affect my professionalism in my job.

You're right.....to me it is simple.

Integrity does not vary according to where you are, who you're with, and what you do.

I agree until it comes to personal relations. It seems too easy to look down on something we can't even begin to fathom. I can't hold others to my standards.

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/30/2009 09:27:08 PM · #29

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Cheating on your spouse is the lowest form of dishonesty.

Not that it matters, but actually that *isn't* the lowest form of dishonesty; stealing from your children is.... IMO anyway.

R.

06/30/2009 09:29:29 PM · #30

Originally posted by SandyP:

Ummmmmmmm. .. .yeah. . . .your private life reflects the type of person you are, and the character you have!

Succinct.

I saw a quote at the place that has been tutoring my daughter yesterday....

"Live your life in such a manner that should someone speak badly of you, no one would believe them."

What a lovely thought.....and I know a few people like that, and Sandy seems to me to be that type of person.

I'd give some serious weight to her opinion on anything involving character....as I would Jason's.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I would think your willingness or propensity to lie to your closest companions (ie. your family) would eventually reflect in your professional decision making. How can we hope that a person being duplicitous in his personal life would not also be duplicitous in his governance?

You're really fighting an uphill battle here, Dex.

06/30/2009 09:30:44 PM · #31

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Cheating on your spouse is the lowest form of dishonesty.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Not that it matters, but actually that *isn't* the lowest form of dishonesty; stealing from your children is.... IMO anyway.

R.

Okay, FINE!!!!

They're both grievous!.....8>)

06/30/2009 09:32:50 PM · #32

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Integrity does not vary according to where you are, who you're with, and what you do.

Originally posted by neophyte:

I agree until it comes to personal relations. It seems too easy to look down on something we can't even begin to fathom. I can't hold others to my standards.

Fathom what?

He lied and cheated to his wife and his constituency?

That's EVERYONE'S standards he's violating!

ETA: Laws *are* about holding each other to our standards.....that's why adultery is still illegal many places, is virtually always grounds for divorce, and if I'm not mistaken, it's also illegal to use taxpayer money for a trip to go see your Argentinian mistress, isn't it?

Message edited by author 2009-06-30 21:35:15.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

06/30/2009 09:35:02 PM · #33

While shaking my head over the shenanigans that some who hold themselves
to highest of high moral standards get caught in,
I still like to remember the famous quotation:

Judge not, lest you be judged.

Saves me a lot of time and energy.

:-))

06/30/2009 09:36:24 PM · #34

Originally posted by sfalice:

Yeah....you're right.

I just get exasperated when someone tries to rationalize or defend a guy like this.

I'll shut up now.

06/30/2009 09:37:33 PM · #35

Originally posted by sfalice:

I could've saved alot of typing. Thank you.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/30/2009 09:47:01 PM · #36

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Integrity does not vary according to where you are, who you're with, and what you do.

Originally posted by neophyte:
I agree until it comes to personal relations. It seems too easy to look down on something we can't even begin to fathom. I can't hold others to my standards.

Fathom what?

He lied and cheated to his wife and his constituency?

That's EVERYONE'S standards he's violating!

ETA: Laws *are* about holding each other to our standards.....that's why adultery is still illegal many places, is virtually always grounds for divorce, and if I'm not mistaken, it's also illegal to use taxpayer money for a trip to go see your Argentinian mistress, isn't it?

We don't nor we will we ever know the structure or dynamics of his personal relations. We all have different needs on this level.I'm not defending him so much as I'm saying we just don't know....

I do believe its wrong to misuse taxpayer money. That's embezzlement and For that he should be prosecuted in a court of law. If its true.

He cheated His constituency? Only if his wife voted for him......;P

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 09:28:40.

zxaar

06/30/2009 10:08:27 PM · #37

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by SandyP:
Ummmmmmmm. .. .yeah. . . .your private life reflects the type of person you are, and the character you have!

Succinct.

I saw a quote at the place that has been tutoring my daughter yesterday....

"Live your life in such a manner that should someone speak badly of you, no one would believe them."

This reminded me of my school time. I being maths student, had last two classes free. So was going home.
Someone in some class spotted it and notified to my class teacher. Her reply was let him go home, he is not like you, he will go home and study. :-D

In my school life many teachers trusted me more than i trusted myself.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

06/30/2009 11:16:01 PM · #38

Any man who vanishes from his family's sight on fathers day to spend time with his mistress is undeserving of a family.

A hypocrite, a liar, a waster of public funds, these can be forgiven if not excused. There can be no forgiving doing that to your family.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/30/2009 11:23:48 PM · #39

Originally posted by mpeters:

I'm sure GeneralE will jump in soon with the Mark Twain quote. ;) C'mon General, you know you've got it close by! :)

How about a little Ambrose Bierce instead? (From The Devil's Dictionary)

POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.

HYPOCRITE, n. One who, professing virtues that he does not respect, secures the advantage of seeming to be what he despises.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

07/01/2009 09:24:21 AM · #40

Originally posted by neophyte:

We don't nor we will we ever know the structure or dynamics of his personal relations...

Dex-It's safe to say we do know the structure and dynamics of these relationships, since he and his wife have been speaking freely about them and I think people are judging exactly based on what they are hearing. It's Not all that complex since there's a good deal of information out there.

As for the standards he, himself set, leaving us with no more politicians ("We'd have nobody left in office.....") I'd love to clean house (and Senate) but I think you'd agree, just because "everybody does it" (whatever "it" may be) still doesn't make "it" right. If a number of teachers at your child's school stole computer equipment and one got caught, would you accept an explanation of "well, everybody does it"?

As for "the players" and "the game" Sanford was a big player in this particular game. This guy built his career on questioning other people's morals. He looms large as both perp and prosecutor.

Sanford: "In politics you can get away with anything as long as it's what's expected," he was quoted saying in a Boston Globe article published in December 1998. "If people expect you to be a rascal, you can be a rascal."

Sanford: "The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of Democratic government, representatives government, because it undermines trust," he told CNN. "And if you undermine trust in our system, you undermine everything."

Basically he's fallen on his own, very sharp knife. Let him bleed.

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 10:48:55.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/01/2009 09:29:24 AM · #41

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Basically he's fallen on his own knife. Let him bleed.

Amen!

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/01/2009 11:39:27 AM · #42

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by neophyte:
How was he as a governor and senator? His private life should be just that; private.

I would think your willingness or propensity to lie to your closest companions (ie. your family) would eventually reflect in your professional decision making. How can we hope that a person being duplicitous in his personal life would not also be duplicitous in his governance?

Good Morning Doc,

Just out of curiousity, had he been honest with his companion, would you still consider him worthy of holding public office... Just curious.

Ray

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/01/2009 01:10:03 PM · #43

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by neophyte:
How was he as a governor and senator? His private life should be just that; private.

I would think your willingness or propensity to lie to your closest companions (ie. your family) would eventually reflect in your professional decision making. How can we hope that a person being duplicitous in his personal life would not also be duplicitous in his governance?

Good Morning Doc,

Just out of curiousity, had he been honest with his companion, would you still consider him worthy of holding public office... Just curious.

Ray

Do you mean had he been open about having an affair with his wife? No. The fault of character in people who have affairs goes beyond just lies but probably isn't the same in all cases. Some affairs result from people's lack of self-control or a slavery to addiction or hedonism. Others result from a willingness to go back on one's committments in an attempt to selfishly improve one's own position (ie. "trading up"). Still others may come from serious issues of self-image. The lying and cover-up are secondary faults and the extent to which people will go to covery up their indiscretions likely reflects on how quickly they will chuck their moral compass in the name of self-preservation.

None of that reflects the qualities I'm looking for in a leader. Frankly I have very little respect for marital infidelity.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

07/01/2009 01:58:13 PM · #44

Golly, DrAchoo is an authority on marital infidelity as well as other things? I quibble, I tease, I prick: he has little "respect" for marital infidelity?

Aargh. Truly the worst of it is the public display of apparent regret (tears) and self-congratulation on the grand amour. Men are so silly. However, I am looking for a good plumber and I don't care what his private indiscretions may be, nor do I want to know about them.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/01/2009 02:02:53 PM · #45

Today's Fresh Air program will discuss the situation, including Gov. Sanford's membership the The Fellowship ...

SandyP

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 USM

07/01/2009 05:08:57 PM · #46

For me, its not really about judging him for having an affair. I am sooooooo not condoning that, but when something like that happens to a public person, I generally don't get my tail-feathers in a ruffle, realizing that I'm certainly not in a position to judge others for not being perfect -- but my anger is how he made it so SO much worse -- in the midst of his poor wife and kids' shame and humiliation -- he had to go and further dig the knife in an open wound in front of all of America about the soul mate thing and that he's going to "try" to fall back in love with his wife. To me THAT says more about his character than the fact that he had an affair. He has absolutely no consideration whatsoever for the pain he has caused another human being, or what his family is going thru because of him. But, who cares. He's in love and has found his soul mate -- and oh how noble that he will try to fall back in love with his wife. I think he is pathetic, and I hate it that he is a Christian because it's people like him that make Christianity laughable to non-Christians.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/01/2009 06:12:06 PM · #47

Originally posted by tnun:

However, I am looking for a good plumber and I don't care what his private indiscretions may be, nor do I want to know about them.

Concur on the plummer, however if I am looking for a nanny, I might widen my scope of inquiry to the area of moral hazards, at least to those that might occur in my home and around my child.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/01/2009 06:13:48 PM · #48

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by tnun:
However, I am looking for a good plumber and I don't care what his private indiscretions may be, nor do I want to know about them.

Concur on the plummer, however if I am looking for a nanny, I might widen my scope of inquiry to the area of moral hazards, at least to those that might occur in my home and around my child.

Touche.

Jutilda

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro for Canon

07/01/2009 06:18:43 PM · #49

I liked it better in the old days before the media was up every politician's butt. It's almost like you expect to hear a confession sooner or later now. Can you imagine what it would be like if the Kennedy era was now??? Or what about the Roosevelts? It came out later that he had "someone," and she had a "woman friend." He certainly has made it awfully painful for his wife and family just to clear his own conscience. That's what pisses me off. Say "I did wrong, I'm sorry," then SHUT UP ABOUT IT. OR leave public life and go be with your soul mate. But then the media (who now think they have a right to know everything about everyone one) would hound him still.

His wife deserves a medal for handling this with such grace. I don't know if I'd have enough fortitude.