The Annals of Democracy :-) - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

11/13/2008 08:13:17 AM · #1

Here's two different stories on the same election in Haverhill, NH (the home of Dartmouth College). The incumbent County Treasurer lost her reelection bid, by just 500 votes, to a junior at Dartmouth who campaigned via Facebook :-)

1:

"HAVERHILL, N.H. (AP) -- The Grafton County, N.H., treasurer, who lost re-election last week to a Dartmouth College student, says most "real" people backed her, and that she lost because of "brainwashed" college students.

Republican Carol Elliott says students just voted for the Democratic ticket, which included 20-year-old Dartmouth College junior Vanessa Sievers. Elliott told the Valley News in Lebanon that Sievers is a teenybopper.

Sievers won by nearly 600 votes out of 42,000 cast. She targeted voters at Dartmouth and Plymouth State University through a $42 ad on the Web site Facebook. She could not be reached for comment.

The part-time job pays $6,408. It involves keeping tabs on all county money, making investments and making payments ordered by county commissioners.

(WLBZ2.com)

2:

"November 12, 2008
'Brainwashed' Students Oust New Hampshire Treasurer

Sour grapes always go well with insults. For proof, see Carol Elliott, who has blamed her recent political defeat on �brainwashed� college students. You know, the ones who voted her out of office.

Last week, Ms. Elliott, a Republican, lost her post as treasurer of Grafton County, in New Hampshire, to Vanessa Sievers, a 20-year-old Democrat from Montana who happens to be a junior at Dartmouth College. The margin of victory was about 500 votes, but in Hanover, home to Dartmouth, Ms. Sievers won by more than 2,400 votes.

In an interview with the Valley News, of White River Junction, Vt., on Tuesday, Ms. Elliott said heavy turnout among college students had doomed her candidacy. Most �real people,� she said, had supported her and not her opponent, whom she deemed a �teenybopper.�

Like many defeated politicians, though, Ms. Elliott looked to the future. She mused that she might seek a seat in the state legislature, so she could �change the law.� Apparently, she meant the law that allows temporary residents � not to mention the young and the brainwashed � to run for local offices. �Eric Hoover

From online responses to the above story:

"Eric, in your rush to judgment, you forget to mention the qualifications that Vanessa Sievers brings to the job of county treasurer. Would you support her for the presidency of your bank, for example? How about Head Teller or Door Opener? Is this 20-year-old well qualified in finance, and does she have a history of responsible work?

What policy arguments did she make to unseat Carol Elliott, other than she�s 20 and a Democrat and all about, you know, like change? Is it too much trouble to dig a little deeper?

� S. Britchky Nov 12, 04:08 PM"

(Chronicle of Higher Education)

Any comments on this? Is it amusing? Terrifying? Just classic sour grapes from a loser?

R.

Message edited by author 2008-11-13 08:13:39.

vxpra

Pentax K100D

11/13/2008 08:24:40 AM · #2

There is definetly a level of sour grapes on the part of the incumbent. Using terms like "teenybopper" and "brainwashed" are not signs of a gracious loser. Although, both stories lack so much detail that it is really difficult to tell if any thing is really accurate. And you have no idea of the qualifications that either candidate really brought to the table. Honestly, both stories are just examples of extremely poor reporting- something that is rampant in todays society.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

11/13/2008 08:38:22 AM · #3

Can't really judge what happened without more facts. Is the winner qualified to do the job? If yes then sour grapes. If not and she got elected just because she used facebook and its popularity with the college crowd to get voted in, well then the loser may have a point. But we'll never know because of shoddy reporting by most probably an amateur reporter.

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

11/13/2008 08:45:14 AM · #4

Originally posted by Jac:

That sounds about right to me too (what you said).

I'm curious about the position and who is eligible for it in general...you would think a local government job would only be eligible to residents of that state and/or county? I guess the college student is a resident by attending Dartmouth, if only on a temporary basis?

JimiRose

Nikon D90

11/13/2008 08:51:43 AM · #5

Woop power to the brainwashed teenyboppers!

Extremely sour grapes from Ms Elliott by the sounds of it, embracing new forms of mass communication to benefit your campaign and reach your target voters is CLEARLY cheating. I mean after all, students only ever have a single point of view and WILL blindly vote for anyone as long as they enjoy getting so drunk they fall asleep in pools of their own vomit at least twice a week.

I can't wait until I graduate I'm a real person, it's a bit like being Pinocchio, only without strings.

11/13/2008 09:02:46 AM · #6

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I'm curious about the position and who is eligible for it in general...you would think a local government job would only be eligible to residents of that state and/or county? I guess the college student is a resident by attending Dartmouth, if only on a temporary basis?

Yes, that's correct. The loser has talked about running for the legislature so that she can try to get a law enacted prohibiting this sort of thing. She doesn't think temporary residents have any business even voting on County offices, let alone running for them...

I agree with those who say the story needs fleshing out, especially in re qualifications of the individuals involved. I've been looking for more details, but so far have found none.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that the incumbent was in fact qualified by training and/or profession for the job (most elected County Treasurers are, in my experience, few people even RUN for this office that don't have an accounting background), and let's further assume that the student who beat her is actually studying business or economics at Dartmouth so has at least nominal educational qualifications even if no real-life experience.

So here's the issue, hypothetically, assuming the defeated incumbents have some basis in reality even if they come across as sour grapes: basically, she suffered a narrow defeat at the polls because a significant portion of the Dartmouth student body saw the Facebook ad and voted for "one of their own". But these students are a constantly-shifting segment of the population, they only hang around for 4 years, and they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions at the community level.

That's what she's bitching about. I donno. I was just curious where people stand on this :-)

R.

11/13/2008 09:03:25 AM · #7

Originally posted by JimiRose:

Jejeje�!

R.

11/13/2008 09:09:20 AM · #8

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

students are a constantly-shifting segment of the population, they only hang around for 4 years, and they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions at the community level.

R.

The County Treasurer position is held for how long? Re-elected every 2, 4, ??? years?

11/13/2008 09:21:23 AM · #9

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
students are a constantly-shifting segment of the population, they only hang around for 4 years, and they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions at the community level.

R.

The County Treasurer position is held for how long? Re-elected every 2, 4, ??? years?

Just checked it out at the County website; the Sheriff, the County Attorney, the Registrar of Deeds, and the County Treasurer serve 2-year terms.

R.

11/13/2008 09:32:22 AM · #10

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
students are a constantly-shifting segment of the population, they only hang around for 4 years, and they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions at the community level.

R.

The County Treasurer position is held for how long? Re-elected every 2, 4, ??? years?

Just checked it out at the County website; the Sheriff, the County Attorney, the Registrar of Deeds, and the County Treasurer serve 2-year terms.

R.

Sounds like this college student just found the perfect part-time job! :-D

11/13/2008 09:34:30 AM · #11

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Sounds like this college student just found the perfect part-time job! :-D

No kidding; first thing that occurred to me LOL!

R.

11/13/2008 09:49:48 AM · #12

Dartmouth Junior Wins County Election and Starts Town vs. Gown Dispute

By KATIE ZEZIMA
Published: November 12, 2008
Vanessa Sievers, a Dartmouth College junior, was not content to wait tables or make coffee as a side job. Instead she ran for treasurer of Grafton County, N.H., and won, unseating the incumbent and unleashing a war of words.

Jennifer Argote/The Dartmouth
Vanessa Sievers invested $51 in a Facebook advertisement.
The current county treasurer, Carol Elliott, 68, called Ms. Sievers, 20, a �teenybopper� in an interview with a local newspaper, The Valley News, and said she had won only because �brainwashed college kids� had voted for the Democratic ticket.

Ms. Sievers beat Ms. Elliott by 586 votes out of about 42,000 cast, and won big in Hanover, home to Dartmouth, and Plymouth, home to both Ms. Elliott and Plymouth State University.

The part-time treasurer�s job pays $6,408 annually and oversees the investments and payroll of the county, which is home to about 85,000 people.

�Carol Elliott and I have never met, and I personally don�t have anything against her,� Ms. Sievers said in a telephone interview. Ms. Elliott did not return calls seeking comment.

Ms. Sievers, a geography and history major from Montana, decided to run after the county registrar of deeds, Bill Sharp, approached the Dartmouth College Democrats.

�I said this will be a nice part-time position for one of your people, and we�re going to need the college kids to turn out for the election,� Mr. Sharp said.

There has been no love lost between Ms. Elliott and Mr. Sharp, who contends Ms. Elliott would not tell him how much money was in a county account linked to his office. In the Valley News interview, Ms. Elliott called Mr. Sharp a �buffoon.�

Ms. Sievers, now a New Hampshire resident, said she has worked as a bookkeeper and served on the school board in Livingston, Mont., while a student there.

�I have always been interested in finance and involved in politics, which are the reasons why I decided to run,� she said.

Ms. Sievers�s big investment in the campaign was a $51 advertisement on Facebook, which she paid for with her own money.

�I took advantage of new media, and she did not,� Ms. Sievers said. The county Republican chairman, Ludlow Flower, however, does not think that new media or college students belong in a county race.

�College students are not involved in local things at all,� Mr. Flower said. �They�re only involved in Dartmouth College. They don�t buy property here, they don�t pay taxes here, so they�re not concerned with how the treasury is handled.�

found from Here

Message edited by author 2008-11-13 09:50:19.

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

11/13/2008 09:54:38 AM · #13

And just for fun, here's another one

HAVERHILL, N.H. - A county treasurer who lost re-election last week to a Dartmouth College student says most "real" people backed her, and that she lost because of "brainwashed" college students.

Grafton County Treasurer Carol Elliott, a Republican, said students just voted for the Democratic ticket, which included Vanessa Sievers, 20, a Dartmouth College junior. Sievers won by nearly 600 votes out of 42,000 cast after targeting voters at Dartmouth and Plymouth State University through a $42 ad on the Web site Facebook.

"It was the brainwashed college kids that made the difference," Elliott, 66, told the Valley News of Lebanon. She said she had little faith that either Sievers or Register of Deeds Bill Sharp will fulfill their duties adequately. Sharp, a Democrat, narrowly won a second term.

"You�ve got a buffoon for a register of deeds, and you�ve got a teenybopper for a treasurer," Elliott said. "I�m concerned for the citizens of Grafton County."

The part-time job pays $6,408. It involves keeping tabs on all county money, making investments and making payments ordered by county commissioners.

Sievers said Wednesday she was surprised by what she called Elliott�s "brutal attack."

"She�s never met me before," she said in a phone interview with The Associated Press. "She has no idea what I�m like."

Sievers, a geography and history major from Big Sky, Mont., said she has been active in politics for many years and has worked on numerous New Hampshire campaigns, ranging from the mayoral race in Lebanon to Bill Richardson�s presidential campaign. She ran for county treasurer at the urging of Sharp and other Democrats.

"I�ve always believed that being involved in local government is part of your responsibility as a citizen and is a way to get involved in your community," she said.

Sievers said her age has nothing to do with her qualifications, noting that she has worked as a bookkeeper, managed her family�s finances and has been thoroughly researching investment options to prepare for her new job. She also took issue with Elliott�s claim that college students were brainwashed.

"I don�t know why people think college students are less informed than other members of the community. A lot of students get very, very involved in their communities, are extraordinarily involved in politics in the area, in doing community service, everything," she said. "I think college students are connected, and sometimes know more than the �real� citizens. ... I think we�re just as real citizens as anyone else in the county."

While not embracing Elliott�s comments, Grafton County Republican Chairman Ludlow Flower said he was concerned that college students living in the county for a limited time were deciding elections for county offices.

"I have no problem with them voting for national political tickets, because they do have a stake in this whole country, but they don�t have a stake in our local community here," Flower said, noting that Elliott has more than 20 years of experience as a public servant.

"It just seems a shame that we have yet to figure out a way to make this democratic process for county offices more reflective of our local circumstances," he said.

from here

vxpra

Pentax K100D

11/13/2008 10:05:35 AM · #14

Originally posted by Mr. Flower :

"they don�t pay taxes here, so they�re not concerned with how the treasury is handled.�

Is there no sales tax??? Is there no "use" tax on hotels and restaurants?? Mr. Flower is a poor spin doctor.

Olympus 12-45mm /f4.0 Pro

11/13/2008 10:18:35 AM · #15

Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by Mr. Flower :
"they don�t pay taxes here, so they�re not concerned with how the treasury is handled.�

Is there no sales tax??? Is there no "use" tax on hotels and restaurants?? Mr. Flower is a poor spin doctor.

Seems that now that they're in the loosers seat they need to find someone to blame... and "brainwashed" transient college students who have no real 'stake' in the community is going to be their scapegoat... Sad actually

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

11/13/2008 10:42:13 AM · #16

This seems very typical to me. Many college towns seem to have the same issue; the people living in them, running businesses in them, want the students there because the students represent a huge customer base, and spend a huge amount of money while at school. BUT, at the same time, the "local residents" don't want to treat college kids as "real" citizens. In short, they're willing to take our money, but don't want to give us any respect at all.

From the articles (which, granted, don't offer a lot of information), Sievers sounds qualified enough - let's face it, the job of county treasurer doesn't take a rocket scientist. Look at the other people who run for local office: house mothers, local businessmen - my hometown just elected the guy who owns the local tuxedo rental shop as a representative. What qualifications do any of these people have that a college student doesn't? I tend to think that students are probably more in-touch with current events and developments than most adults are.

The real issue here is the continuing misinformed notion that just because someone is 20, they cannot possibly know what's going on, or be responsible in such a position. On the other hand, take a look at the 40, 50, and 60 year olds who are in various offices, then look at how many of them are misrepresenting the public, are corrupt, or are just plain stupid.

Furthermore, claiming that students don't have a stake in a community is a great way to widen the gap between students and the community. Towns that welcome college students have better relationships with them - make the students feel they are part of the community, and more of them will give back to it. When you alienate them, they all graduate and leave because they hate the place.

There's no shortage of students who see an opportunity in their college town and build on it while students, or who remain afterwards to start a business, etc. Not to mention the power of alumni when it comes to recruiting more students for that school (again, recall the economic impact of the students). Students are very much a part of a community, like it or not, and many of them do have real concern for the wellbeing and future of those communities. It's pathetic how the locals respond to a student's olive branch.

One day college students are being attacked for not taking part in the system, for being transient and "without roots," and the next day they're attacked for taking part in the system and expressing a sense of roots.

To the residents of Grafton County, NH, I can only say this, in my best Dr. House voice - "You're a moron!"

vxpra

Pentax K100D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

11/13/2008 10:45:21 AM · #17

Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

Excellent!!! I suggest you email this to Mr. Flower.

kenskid

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/13/2008 10:59:34 AM · #18

In the U.S. system does it really matter if the winner was qualified? If the person who won is not qualified but fairly elected...even by brainwashed students then that's the end of it. Let the chips fall where they may.

There are of course ways to get an office holder taken out of office but the process usually dooms it to failure.

Originally posted by Jac:

11/13/2008 11:31:23 AM · #19

Originally posted by kenskid:

:-) Hopefully the new County Treasurer won't be using "chips".

Well, I guess it doesn't matter that much how the money is handled or how the County investments are distributed - does it?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/13/2008 01:21:51 PM · #20

Originally posted by kenskid:

You would hope the majority would pick the most qualified... that is the bases os a democracy that the judgement (will) of the many is usually right...

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

11/13/2008 01:53:16 PM · #21

The likely true, but much less exciting story is that lots of people, totally uninformed about the candidates voted "democrat" because it's time to vote the bums out. Republicans had an uphill battle across the country this cycle. I'm guessing the $51 Facebook ad had little to do with the victory.

Personally I didn't vote any local positions this year because I know nothing about the candidates other than the signs I see up in the yards. I'm not bashing the democrat voters above for being "uninformed" but am rather saying I bet the vast majority of people vote party lines on those little positions because they know nothing about the candidate.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

11/13/2008 02:18:27 PM · #22

I think Ms. Elliot is bitching because she got her ass handed to her by a relative "kid". She should be blaming her own lack of knowledge about new ways to get the word out and my guess is that she didn't take her opponent seriously to really be concerned. HA! HA! HA! on her. I hope the new clerk does a good job.