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10/28/2008 05:32:38 AM · #1 |
Regarding the "Poverty" series of challenges: whilst images of sad, homeless children are impactful, it looks as though some people use their own family members to pose for photos. I might be wrong but some of the people and especially the kids, don't look homeless at all. They look more like regular middle-class kids with a bit of dirt smeared carefully over portions of their face.
If this is the case, it's in really poor taste. Winning a photo contest isn't everything, and certainly not worth making light of something so tragic as child poverty.
Hopefully I'm wrong. But it's hard to believe after looking through those photos. |
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10/28/2008 05:41:53 AM · #2 |
Have you ever considered that some people feel it is inappropriate to take unsuspecting pictures of people, especially those that are having more than a rough go of it, and posting them on an international website without full consent and knowledge?
As you said, this is a photography contest, not a news photo contest. |
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10/28/2008 05:47:33 AM · #3 |
| Of course. My apologies. Well then, I'm off to take a beautiful photo of my friend posing as Hitler in a Ku Klux Klan outfit. |
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10/28/2008 06:36:08 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by roadends:
Of course. My apologies. Well then, I'm off to take a beautiful photo of my friend posing as Hitler in a Ku Klux Klan outfit. |
Ooh how clever a retort NOT!
If you had bothered to read the poverty thread you would see that there are very valid reasons why people might stage their shots, also the description is quite clear "Photograph your interpretation of the word poverty."
Just what this site needs: Another highly vocal critic who thinks they have the one and only correct view of what the challenge should portray. Open your eyes to other peoples opinions as photography is also an art form.
When the challenge description states "Show us your best image of a homeless person (Adult or Child) in their natural habitat (read native environment)" then you have a valid point, I for one hope that it never gets to the point where descriptions take away any chance of being creative as I mentioned before in the other thread we will be likely to end up with submissions that will all be practically the same. |
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10/28/2008 06:55:08 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by roadends:
Of course. My apologies. Well then, I'm off to take a beautiful photo of my friend posing as Hitler in a Ku Klux Klan outfit. |
You my friend - fail.
For example I am working on a photo documentary right now documenting the struggles of being homeless, I have been for about a month. That being said, I haven't taken a single photo yet. I am working at local homeless shelters trying to get to know some of these AWESOME people and the stories behind them. I probably won't mention that I'm a photographer for a little while longer. Eventually I'll try and work with some of these people to create something special and heartfelt. It would be ridiculously callous to go take random photos of these people... so... people are just trying to be creative and "think outside the box" (I dislike this term but it applies here), and go about interpreting this, usually, friendly photography contest in a manner that is comfortable for all involved.
Evan |
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10/28/2008 06:57:12 AM · #6 |
| Being one of the "tasteless" bunch, taking photos of REAL people suffering from poverty....I would just like to stress that I do not appreciate your assumption that the persons (or their guardians) have not signed consent! In fact... that is plain rude. |
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10/28/2008 09:22:01 AM · #7 |
Misconception One = Poverty equals homelessness.
The tragedy is that yes, most (if not almost all) homeless people live in poverty. I say almost all, because we have a couple of people in our community that have homes, and bank accounts, but live under the bridge. However, there is a HUGE section of the population that lives in poverty, but are not homeless.
Misconception Two = "Staging" poverty is not "making light of something so tragic as child poverty."
I think the case could be made that finding actual people living in poverty and photographing them for a contest with no real prizes could be construed as exploitative in nature, as well.
Misconception Three = It must be "real" to be entered.
The challenge definition clearly states that to photograph an "interpretation" of poverty. That does NOT mean you have to photograph actual poverty.
And I seriously do not understand the Hitler and the KKK remark as it relates to your first post. |
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10/28/2008 09:26:25 AM · #8 |
Am I wrong in assuming that the rules state that discussion of a cross section of entries currently in voting (or words to that effect) is discouraged and should be withheld until after the voting has been completed?
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10/28/2008 09:37:48 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by forum rule #2:
Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed. |
To me, this is similar to the zoo vs. non-zoo discussion last week.
If another SC feels differently, I'm sure it will be locked/hidden, etc. |
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10/28/2008 10:02:22 AM · #10 |
Wow, someone states his opinion and he gets blasted for it.
I agree with the sentiment of the OP. Staging poverty is bad photography and disrespectful to those who are in dire needs. His Hitler reference was to state a point, that I understood, btw, while some took offense just because the H word was used.
I also agree with Karmat that photographing poor people going through garbage bins looking for food is very insulting and degrading and I just can't get myself to do that BUT I also wouldn't dress my kids or family member up to look like a homeless person because to me, that is also disrespectful. What does a homeless person look like anyways?
Art for art sakes isn't an excuse to photograph people in compromising situations, like rummaging through garbage looking for food, even if you call it street photography or whatever catch-phrase you like. If you think that's art, then Hitler hanging with the KKK is also art, in the right context of course.
When's the next History challenge? |
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10/28/2008 07:35:20 PM · #11 |
I can understand the OP's point but its very subjective to be fair. For every person who agrees with a point there will always be people who disagree, its life....but i think the Hitler statement was not needed to highlight that point of view.
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 19:35:29. |
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10/28/2008 07:44:46 PM · #12 |
Am slightly confused here, are people saying that DPC is wrong to have a poverty challenge? and that images of homeless/poverty sticken people should be banned?
My shot is struggling to stay at 5.4, but am sure my 'model' was gratefull for the crisp £5 note :)
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10/28/2008 07:49:23 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Am slightly confused here, are people saying that DPC is wrong to have a poverty challenge? and that images of homeless/poverty sticken people should be banned?
My shot is struggling to stay at 5.4, but am sure my 'model' was gratefull for the crisp £5 note :) |
My point with my response to the OPs initial comment was that some people are not comfortable or don't like entering shots of strangers (street shots, shots of poor people, etc) and they choose to shoot images that are staged to avoid those issues.
I actually never stated that it was wrong to post images of strangers, just that some people may feel that way.
Cheers!
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10/28/2008 07:55:18 PM · #14 |
Hey I paid good money to have that homeless guy move out of the way so my prettier model can be photographed in that authentic cardboard box home. Don't tell me I was insensitive for doing that.
Also, I didn't enter. :P I just did it for kicks. :PP
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10/28/2008 08:07:08 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by roadends:
Of course. My apologies. Well then, I'm off to take a beautiful photo of my friend posing as Hitler in a Ku Klux Klan outfit. |
Man, it's the second time I've mentioned it in a week, but this one hit in 3 posts!
Goodwin's Law |
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10/29/2008 04:22:32 AM · #16 |
Thankfully one reader recognised the Hitler comment for what it was: a point rebuking Bassbone’s idiotic reply that photography is an excuse for dispensing with morality.
Posting a photo of a homeless person without their consent and dressing your kid up to look homeless for the sake of winning a competition are two entirely different things. The latter being the kind of thing done by status-conscious parents with an “If you’re not first, you’re last,” mentality, who live vicariously through their children. I had no idea this site played host to so many petulant whiners.
Mark A writes, “Just what this site needs: Another highly vocal critic who thinks they have the one and only correct view of what the challenge should portray.”
Mark, do you know what a forum is? Do you what an opinion is? Do you know what results when the two come together? Welcome to the magical world of the online, Mark. He than refers to me as, “A vocal critic.” “Vocal?” Mark, would you rather I posted my thoughts via telepathy? What kind of nonsensical statement is that? Mark, keep sending your kids to those talent contests. They’ll make you a winner one day.
Mark A goes on to say, “Open your eyes to other peoples opinion’s as photography is also an art form.”
“Open your eyes to other peoples opinion’s”? Um Mark, do you realise the hypocrisy of what you’ve just written? Also learn how to use apostrophes. It’s hard to take the opinion of someone who can’t even write a simple sentence seriously.
Evan, “StOlafPhotographer” wins hands down the Most Irrelevant Reply of the Year award, with
“You my friend - fail.
For example I am working on a photo documentary right now documenting the struggles of being homeless, I have been for about a month. That being said, I haven't taken a single photo yet. I am working at local homeless shelters trying to get to know some of these AWESOME people and the stories behind them. I probably won't mention that I'm a photographer for a little while longer. Eventually I'll try and work with some of these people to create something special and heartfelt. It would be ridiculously callous to go take random photos of these people... so... people are just trying to be creative and "think outside the box" (I dislike this term but it applies here), and go about interpreting this, usually, friendly photography contest in a manner that is comfortable for all involved.”
Congratulations, Evan. I have no idea what your reply has to do with anything. But if you can somehow channel that randomness into your photography, we’ll be seeing you on the winner’s list of the next three million challenges.
Thank you for all the heart-warming feedback that one spontaneous thought has created.
I look forward to commenting on next month’s challenge, “Religion, Sex and the Teenage Hermaphrodite Revolution.”
Message edited by author 2008-10-29 04:24:17. |
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10/29/2008 04:32:49 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by roadends:
I had no idea this site played host to so many petulant whiners. |
It seems there is only one whiner here and fortunately this weeks challenge is mirrors so you will get a good look at it should you choose to enter.
Originally posted by roadends:
Mark, do you know what a forum is? |
I have been on forums since the early BBS type systems so believe I do, unfortunately I have encountered plenty of troll like entities that join, stir up a load of carp with their inane ramblings then normally leave with their tails between their legs - one can only hope huh!
Originally posted by roadends:
Do you what an opinion is? |
Yes and Bassbone put his across to you which you then tried to be a smartass about, strangely moronic to come back with this retort then huh?
Originally posted by roadends:
He than refers to me as, “A vocal critic.” “Vocal?” Mark, would you rather I posted my thoughts via telepathy? What kind of nonsensical statement is that? Mark, keep sending your kids to those talent contests. They’ll make you a winner one day. |
Again typical of the stupid nonsensical ramblings of a troll, please crawl back under your bridge!
Originally posted by roadends:
Mark A goes on to say, “Open your eyes to other peoples opinion’s as photography is also an art form.”
“Open your eyes to other peoples opinion’s”? Um Mark, do you realise the hypocrisy of what you’ve just written? Also learn how to use apostrophes. It’s hard to take the opinion of someone who can’t even write a simple sentence seriously. |
Hmm learn to reread your nonsense so you do not miss words out, it's hard to read what you so eloquently write when half the words are missing, afterall you are not using telepathy! I also was not aware that my Grammar was that poor in the original post but will go back to school for English lessons just so I can post on an open forum.
Message edited by author 2008-10-29 04:34:57. |
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10/29/2008 05:01:38 AM · #18 |
Wow, it seems Mark A was hanging out just waiting to reply. It must be the off-season in the glamorous world of child contests/slavery.
I’d love to enter the Mirrors challenge, except there might be people out there (not mentioning names, Mark A), who might consider my entry as a visual interpretation of god forbid, an opinion. So I dare not. Needless to say it wouldn’t be nearly impressive Mark A’s piece, “My Child Dressed as a Mirror.”
At least Mark A is finally learning, albeit at the pace of a slightly defective sloth, what a forum is all about – back and forth discourse involving varying and sometimes differing opinions. Wonderful, isn’t it Mark A? You’ve finally caught up with modern technology. (Just as a hint, the “any” key isn’t actually a key on your keyboard. It means any key on your keyboard.)
I’m not sure just how a troll rambles, but I’m certainly becoming more and more aware of how an idiot does so. And what’s with the chopping up of my posts to make your point? These people aren’t idiots, Mike A. They have what’s called “retention” and “memories”.
Write properly. I know you can’t resist reposting my comments, such is their validity, but do try to refrain. A strong retort shouldn’t have to rely on such petty techniques.
By “inane ramblings”, I think Mark A here means, “Having an opinion differing to that of Mark A.” I can only hope that in the next life I shall return as Mark A and all my problems shall be solved.
It’s been a pleasure being able to voice my opinion here. It truly is a beautiful thing, a free country. Just remember Mark A, vote McCain! He’ll give your kids guns so they can shoot that rotten competition at next year’s child talent quest. No little brat’s existence is worth more than one more trophy on the Mike A mantelpiece.
Amen.
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10/29/2008 05:07:32 AM · #19 |
Do you know what a forum is? LOL actually how I presented my reply was very common in such places.
I suspect you are simply here to annoy genuine members and I refuse to bite so have fun talking to yourself.
Oh one last thing before I put this thread on ignore, I did not enter a child shot in the Poverty challenge, a bit of research is too much for a troll I guess. |
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10/29/2008 05:39:44 AM · #20 |
Marvelous.. God I needed cheering up this morning. Thanks.
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10/29/2008 08:10:40 AM · #21 |
This website, and photography in general, has little to do with reality. Our images are illusions; cropped, saturated and sharpened. Would anyone be shocked to find out that an image of a diamond in the wealth challenge was really a cubik zirconium.
If you are concerned about illusions, look at Wall Street, who built a false image of wealth based on bankrupt home owners, or the main stream media who have built an image of a main stream candidate based on a radical left wing socialist. |
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10/29/2008 09:01:56 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
This website, and photography in general, has little to do with reality. Our images are illusions; cropped, saturated and sharpened. Would anyone be shocked to find out that an image of a diamond in the wealth challenge was really a cubik zirconium.
If you are concerned about illusions, look at Wall Street, who built a false image of wealth based on bankrupt home owners, or the main stream media who have built an image of a main stream candidate based on a radical left wing socialist. |
Bad examples in my view.
I disagree completely with your assessment that photography is an illusion or has nothing to do with reality. It is not. Unless you make it to be illusionistic and non-realistic, then yes. Photography is the capturing of existent light, illusion has nothing to do with it. Photographers are not illusionists.
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10/29/2008 09:16:01 AM · #23 |
Gets comfy.....
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10/29/2008 10:06:22 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by roadends:
... some of the people and especially the kids, don't look homeless at all. They look more like regular middle-class kids with a bit of dirt smeared carefully over portions of their face.... |
I agree. |
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10/29/2008 10:10:12 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by roadends:
Wow, it seems Mark A was hanging out just waiting to reply. It must be the off-season in the glamorous world of child contests/slavery. |
*Gasp!* You mean this is frowned upon???!!!
Drat! ;)
Dude, relax. It's just a contest with virtual ribbons...
Message edited by author 2008-10-29 10:18:00. |
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