is this border legal in basic - DPChallenge Forums

07/24/2008 12:11:00 AM · #1

This has nothing to do with my opinion of the image or the person who took it.. I'm simply asking for clarification as I would like to be able to do this too... I sincerely thought though, only adjustment layers are allowed and to achieve this, I thought you also had to add a "layer style" to get this.. Wouldn't that count as a selection ???

Katmystiry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/24/2008 12:14:33 AM · #2

I did this in 2006 and had it validated before the challenge ... looks about the same thing .. I'm not sure if the current rule set allows it though

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

07/24/2008 12:15:25 AM · #3

Originally posted by Katmystiry:

I did this in 2006 and had it validated before the challenge ... looks about the same thing .. I'm not sure if the current rule set allows it though

May I ask if you added a drop shadow effect around your image in the border area???

Frankie_Lv

Canon EOS-30D

07/24/2008 12:46:16 AM · #4

Originally posted by kandykarml:

[u]I'm curious because this to me is a glaring violation of the rules[/u], although not a big deal because "it's just the border".... It looks to me as if a drop shadow has been added to the border of this image.. Am I seeing things or is there a way to do this in basic editing ???

This has nothing to do with my opinion of the image or the person who took it.. I'm simply asking for clarification as I would like to be able to do this too... I sincerely thought though, only adjustment layers are allowed and to achieve this, I thought you also had to add a "layer style" to get this.. Wouldn't that count as a selection ???

If you think it is in violation of the rules I would suggest putting in a ticket to the sc & let them rule on it.

david_1190

Nikon D40

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/24/2008 01:05:23 AM · #5

Well this got DQ'd, and it was "just a border"

I don't see how the one you're showing is legal... at all. Oh well, let the SC handle it.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

07/24/2008 01:08:45 AM · #6

Originally posted by Frankie_Lv:

Originally posted by kandykarml:
[u]I'm curious because this to me is a glaring violation of the rules[/u], although not a big deal because "it's just the border".... It looks to me as if a drop shadow has been added to the border of this image.. Am I seeing things or is there a way to do this in basic editing ???

This has nothing to do with my opinion of the image or the person who took it.. I'm simply asking for clarification as I would like to be able to do this too... I sincerely thought though, only adjustment layers are allowed and to achieve this, I thought you also had to add a "layer style" to get this.. Wouldn't that count as a selection ???

If you think it is in violation of the rules I would suggest putting in a ticket to the sc & let them rule on it.

Already did that and there's been no response.. So, that is why I'm asking.

levyj413

Nikon D7100

07/24/2008 01:38:01 AM · #7

Well, how long has it been? Give 'em a day or two to respond.

Katmystiry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/24/2008 02:38:45 AM · #8

Yes I did

Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by Katmystiry:
I did this in 2006 and had it validated before the challenge ... looks about the same thing .. I'm not sure if the current rule set allows it though

May I ask if you added a drop shadow effect around your image in the border area???

Jimbo_for_life

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

07/24/2008 02:41:14 AM · #9

Originally posted by david_1190:

Well this got DQ'd, and it was "just a border"

I don't see how the one you're showing is legal... at all. Oh well, let the SC handle it.

Looks like it is a gradient* border though, although it is the same concept, id just make a simple black border or something that looks nice rather chance it

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

07/24/2008 06:55:52 AM · #10

Originally posted by david_1190:

Well this got DQ'd, and it was "just a border"

I don't see how the one you're showing is legal... at all. Oh well, let the SC handle it.

His isn't or doesn't look like a vignette. Didn't we already go through this in your thread though.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/24/2008 11:41:44 AM · #11

Originally posted by levyj413:

Well, how long has it been? Give 'em a day or two to respond.

I sent in the request on the first day of voting.. I wonder if the fact that they've not responded means it is legal... hmmmm

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/24/2008 11:47:51 AM · #12

Originally posted by kandykarml:

I wonder if the fact that they've not responded means it is legal... hmmmm

Has it been validated? Sometimes the discussion just drags on for days (or weeks).

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

07/24/2008 11:52:24 AM · #13

Originally posted by kandykarml:

I'm curious because this to me is a glaring violation of the rules, although not a big deal because "it's just the border".... It looks to me as if a drop shadow has been added to the border of this image.. Am I seeing things or is there a way to do this in basic editing ???

This has nothing to do with my opinion of the image or the person who took it.. I'm simply asking for clarification as I would like to be able to do this too... I sincerely thought though, only adjustment layers are allowed and to achieve this, I thought you also had to add a "layer style" to get this.. Wouldn't that count as a selection ???

I don't see how it could have been accomplished without layers and selections myself either. The outside portion (look in the upper-left) of the "border" certainly has image data (it's not just an expanded canvas).

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

07/24/2008 12:14:04 PM · #14

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kandykarml:
I wonder if the fact that they've not responded means it is legal... hmmmm

Has it been validated? Sometimes the discussion just drags on for days (or weeks).

It never said it was validated while we were still voting cause I checked.. But, I don't know how to check & see that now..

sb404

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

07/24/2008 03:43:21 PM · #15

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by kandykarml:
I'm curious because this to me is a glaring violation of the rules, although not a big deal because "it's just the border".... It looks to me as if a drop shadow has been added to the border of this image.. Am I seeing things or is there a way to do this in basic editing ???

This has nothing to do with my opinion of the image or the person who took it.. I'm simply asking for clarification as I would like to be able to do this too... I sincerely thought though, only adjustment layers are allowed and to achieve this, I thought you also had to add a "layer style" to get this.. Wouldn't that count as a selection ???

I don't see how it could have been accomplished without layers and selections myself either. The outside portion (look in the upper-left) of the "border" certainly has image data (it's not just an expanded canvas).

Ok, not sure how well I will be able to explain this, but here goes...

While a drop shadow effect on the image itself is easier, and illegal with basic editing, it is possible to obtain the same effect while using the legal "border selection" and applying an inner shadow on it.

- You may not use any selection tool, including but not limited to the marquee, lasso, layer masks, quick masks, or any similar tool to select a portion of your image for any reason other than cropping or creating a border.

- You may add a border to the outside edge of your entry. Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border.

I'm not here often and just came back to participate in a few contest in between contracts, so please excuse me if this has been debated before, but what is "clearly recognizable"?

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

07/24/2008 03:52:04 PM · #16

Originally posted by sb404:

... While a drop shadow effect on the image itself is easier, and illegal with basic editing, it is possible to obtain the same effect while using the legal "border selection" and applying an inner shadow on it. ...

Well, there you go then. :-) More often than not, there are several ways to get the same (or very similar) result. I'll have to try the method you describe when I get an opportunity. Thanks!

sb404

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

07/24/2008 03:53:40 PM · #17

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by sb404:
... While a drop shadow effect on the image itself is easier, and illegal with basic editing, it is possible to obtain the same effect while using the legal "border selection" and applying an inner shadow on it. ...

Well, there you go then. :-) More often than not, there are several ways to get the same (or very similar) result. I'll have to try the method you describe when I get an opportunity. Thanks!

hahaha... but still is a gray zone, or is any use of the "border selection" permitted as long as it stays "clearly a border"?

Judi

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/24/2008 04:13:20 PM · #18

Just a tip on voting with basic editing entries. If you think an entry has violated the rule....put it up for validation....but vote as if it is legal. I am currently awaiting a validation on my image due to an obvious trick of the eye...and yet I am getting hammered with low votes and even getting comments about the illegal process....it is not illegal...and yet I am getting treated as if it is. Think before you vote peoples.

Back to your regular programme!

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/24/2008 04:16:30 PM · #19

Originally posted by Judi:

I totally agree with this & I DID vote on the image as if it's legal.. I hope everyone does that as they are not in a position to determine wether or not something was done that's against the rules.. No matter how much they think they know about editing photo's.. :-)

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/24/2008 04:58:19 PM · #20

Originally posted by sb404:

While a drop shadow effect on the image itself is easier, and illegal with basic editing, it is possible to obtain the same effect while using the legal "border selection" and applying an inner shadow on it.

- You may not use any selection tool, including but not limited to the marquee, lasso, layer masks, quick masks, or any similar tool to select a portion of your image for any reason other than cropping or creating a border.

Borders currently fall somewhat outside the normal editing rules. Selections and data layers are off-limits in Basic when editing your image, but are often used to create the frames (as suggested by the exception for borders noted above). Using clip art or text in a border is still prohibited, and we ask the the border be distinct and recognizable to keep people from using a "border" as an excuse to illegally edit the image itself by spot editing, adding image area, creating vignettes, etc. The entry in question is still under discussion.

Please note that using a fancy border in Basic will nearly always result in someone requesting validation (obvious vignettes tend to get the same response). Simple frames are rarely questioned. In Advanced editing, background removal is probably the most common validation request.

pineapple

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

07/24/2008 05:43:39 PM · #21

Borders of any type should be illegal in basic.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

07/24/2008 05:57:32 PM · #22

Originally posted by david_1190:

Well this got DQ'd, and it was "just a border"

I don't see how the one you're showing is legal... at all. Oh well, let the SC handle it.

Sorry that one is a vignette and I got nailed for it in the same challenge. Nice photo though.

david_1190

Nikon D40

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/25/2008 08:44:26 PM · #23

Originally posted by pineapple:

Borders of any type should be illegal in basic.

They need to fix the rules... Make them more clear. I'm not complaining about my picture, I'm just saying that those are not "borders"... In this case an effect was created in post processing, making it illegal, am I right?

By the way, mine wasn't a vignette, i was a border.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

07/25/2008 09:55:21 PM · #24

Originally posted by david_1190:

Originally posted by pineapple:
Borders of any type should be illegal in basic.

They need to fix the rules... Make them more clear. I'm not complaining about my picture, I'm just saying that those are not "borders"... In this case an effect was created in post processing, making it illegal, am I right?

By the way, mine wasn't a vignette, i was a border.

Yes, a border that graduated into the photo, making a vignette effect. Tomayto, tomahto.

tpbremer