Do you believe in coincidence? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

03/31/2004 11:27:24 AM · #28

There are no shortage of similar photos here, even with unusual subjects. How different are these, really?

I stumbled onto a shot here that was almost identical to Setzler's Liberty and Justice, too, though naturally I can't find it now. I'm not suggesting that any of these were swiped or even inspired by others- just that coincidences do happen.

kellian

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/31/2004 11:29:00 AM · #29

Ok, I don't understand.
If you are not accusing Redmoon of being un-original and copying your photograph... what are you saying? The idea that you could have published a admittedly similar photograph on a website a few weeks back and he didn't see it at all doesn't seem impossible to me.
Isn't it also possible that the angle from which you both shot from is the most interesting and aesthetically pleasing angle from which to shoot?
That sculpture or whatever it is, is really different and interesting. I would go shoot it, and if I couldn't find a different angle that pleased me as much I would have no problem shooting it from the same angle you chose, because as far as I know you do not have artistic rights to it...
Remember, the angle you choose isn't the only variable in taking a photograph... what about aperature, shutter speed, lighting, crop... etc.

Imagineer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/31/2004 11:45:46 AM · #30

Coincidences are commonplace - I took this because the sheep gathered in formation in front of me while shooting another scene

- not to copy Ben's excellent contest entry:

As people have said previously some subjects draw people to them more than others and given that contest descriptions focus people on certain genres it's more likely that coincidences will occur.

03/31/2004 11:46:36 AM · #31

Originally posted by kellian:

Isn't it also possible that the angle from which you both shot from is the most interesting and aesthetically pleasing angle from which to shoot?

It is possible Kellian but if you have read the post by Moodville and followed the links he gives to the town's website you'll see that not one of the photos there are from that standpoint or even that angle.

If someone does know of one similar to mine or the one taken by Redmoon just after I'd be pleased to know.

As far as I'm aware, this isn't something that's much photographed or even looked at. If you look at Redmoon's pic you'll see a green square in the botom right corner. That is an advertising board. Usually there are about six advertising boards lying around that, when I went, I moved. They are allowed to lean their boards against it because it isn't recognised as a valued tourist attraction which is a great pity. There was even a campaign a while back to get them taken away as an eyesore.

kaycee

Olympus C-750UZ

03/31/2004 11:50:09 AM · #32

I'm with Gordon on this on :-) - I'm a confirmed native of the USA, never been near Great Britain, and it took me all of five minutes to find lots of references to the "sculpture" by David Mach. They've apparently been featured on the cover of magazines across the pond, and even I'd heard of Kingston as an area to visit.

And if anyone feels that they're unique take or "angle" on a picture is intellectual property which shouldn't be copied . . . well, good luck with that.

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 11:52:04.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

03/31/2004 11:50:34 AM · #33

If I was being honest, I'd say that you picked probably the least original angle that you could.

The camera is horizontal - somewhere up in the 90% of all pictures take are taken in landscape orientation.

You shot from eye level. Again - the majority of images are shot like that.
The subject is in the frame from left to right - dead center. Again, bog standard technique.

You are correct that some of the commercial or professionally taken images use better or more imaginative angles with better composition and design. There are also some even worse snapshots.

I still don't quite get what your point is though.

It is probably passably interesting to note that both shots are potentially illegal too, though, given that you could be seen to be profiting in terms of exposure from your use of the image. I'm sure there is a copyright infringement thread around here somewhere. Unless of course you got permission in the first place to use the artist's work ? I only mention it given that you seem to be implying someone stole your idea to steal someone elses idea. Has a certain circular justice if it were true, which I don't even think it is.

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 11:57:32.

03/31/2004 11:51:36 AM · #34

Originally posted by Imagineer:

Coincidences are commonplace - I took this because the sheep gathered in formation in front of me while shooting another scene

- not to copy Ben's excellent contest entry:

As people have said previously some subjects draw people to them more than others and given that contest descriptions focus people on certain genres it's more likely that coincidences will occur.

Fair point Imagineer but sheep are everywhere (around here any way) and they always stand in that particular formation with the more dominant sheep in front facing the intruder.

So any pic of any herd of sheep taken anywhere might well be similar to that extent.

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 11:53:05.

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

03/31/2004 11:52:17 AM · #35

Er not "far point", fair point.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

03/31/2004 11:56:22 AM · #36

Coincidences like this happen all the time. What do you suggest be done about it?

kellian

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/31/2004 11:57:20 AM · #37

Originally posted by flyingflynn:

So, are you really saying that Redmoon saw your shot and rushed out to photograph it exactly as he saw yours... specifically and intentionally?
If not then what are you saying?

I don't really see why it even matters that you don't think lots of people take pictures of it... we know now that at least 2 photographers have...

03/31/2004 11:58:32 AM · #38

Originally posted by kaycee:

and even I'd heard of Kingston as an area to visit.

Hmm, that's interesting kaycee. What do you think you'll find in Kingston to visit? Maybe we should build a hotel here. Haven't even got a Holiday Inn. :)

There's a pic of those boxes on the Kingston town website but could you find a pic in any way similar to mine or Redmoon's a month later?

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:01:03.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

03/31/2004 12:00:25 PM · #39

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Coincidences like this happen all the time. What do you suggest be done about it?

Shrug and move on.

Geo_Griffin

Panasonic Lumix FZ45

03/31/2004 12:01:53 PM · #40

e301

Mine

This shot can only be gotten from one place

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:03:19.

03/31/2004 12:02:17 PM · #41

Originally posted by scalvert:

Shrug and move on.

No problem with that here.

Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM

03/31/2004 12:05:17 PM · #42

Originally posted by Harold1066:

e301
Mine

This shot can only be gotten from one place

Assuming there wasn't anything influencing you both that is a surprising coincidence, to my eye anyway. Where did each first appear and what was the timing?

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:05:41.

hgpayne

Canon EOS-5D

03/31/2004 12:05:45 PM · #43

Originally posted by flyingflynn:

But a very, very similar picture to his was published on the FujiMugs site just four weeks before - mine. Two pictures so similar within such a short time is a surprising coincidence by any measure.

Not really. If two photographers live, or visit the same area, you're bound to end up with similar shots. I remember a photo challenge a while back where two different photographers, from the same area, entered nearly the same shot of a barn (or some other similar structure). They weren't copies or anything, but almost exactly the same, from the same shooting position -- and in the same challenge.

I submitted a photo for a challenge a while back and got my best rating -- a 5th place -- with a photo I'm SURE has been shot many times. The only thing missing from where I shot was a sign that said "Kodak Opportunity."

Once I took what I thought was a very scenic shot of the Columbia Gorge. We drove a few more miles down the road and found a gift shop selling post cards. Yep -- one postcard for sale looked EXACTLY like the shot I had just taken. Since the shot was STILL in my camera, I'm pretty sure the photographer who shot the postcard didn't steal my photo.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/31/2004 12:09:50 PM · #44

Ray... Here is another one for you from the Orange challenge that closed just LAST NIGHT:

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=66121 Tina's entry in the Orange challenge

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=65988 My entry in the Orange challenge

Same type butterfly submitted in the same challenge and both taken at the same location but on different days.

Did I, like you, wimp that she could not submit hers because I sumitted mine first? NO... I told her it was a great shot and go ahead and submit it.

Your implication that Redmoon should not have submited his is what is wrong here.

Even assuming he actually saw yours in an obscure website nobody ever heard of, he still has the right take a similar shot and submit it anywhere he wants.

Get over it!

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:25:26.

jenesis

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/31/2004 12:09:57 PM · #45

If anything, you should be flattered. Say he did happen to see your shot before he took his. Say he really liked it and thought he'd like to try something similar. What's the big deal? Things like this happen all the time. How many water droplet shots have you seen as POTD's or the dual color wine glass shots or numerous amounts of sunsets, beaches, flowers... I could go on and on. It's been said many times here, people will try to emulate what they seem to find pleasing. Doesn't mean they're stealing your ingenious idea. I've been inspired by many photographers on this website and others. I try to learn from their techniques and vision and incorporate it into my own.

And if it is coincidence, big deal. It's obvious he lives in the same area or visited it and was inspired by the same vision you were as well as others.

It's not like this is a contest for money or a great award or anything. Get over it... They are both nice photos of an interesting sculpture.

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/31/2004 12:11:34 PM · #46

Originally posted by hgpayne:

-- and in the same challenge.

HG, I'd have thought it would be a less surprising coincidence in the same challenge.

If the subject/brief is the same and the two people live in the same town then there's every chance they'll think of the same local shot. That's not a huge surprise to me.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

03/31/2004 12:15:52 PM · #47

There's a book you can buy with GPS co-ordinates for the tripod location of a load of Ansel Adam's most famous images...

Maybe you could publish one for Kingston ?

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:18:01.

justine

Canon EOS-50D

03/31/2004 12:22:01 PM · #48

flyingflynn

Your shot is not as unique as you think.
Get over it, time to move on.

In the book of Ecclesiastes Revised Standard Version "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done there is nothing new under the sun"

03/31/2004 12:22:58 PM · #49

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Did I, like you, wimp that she could not submit hers because I sumitted mine first?

St D, I think you may have imagined that that because I haven't said anything of the sort.

And your link's broken. I saw the first one and whatever you say about the similarity I'm happy to accept.

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Even assuming he actually saw yours in an obscure website nobody ever heard of, he still has the right take a similar shot and submit it anywhere he wants.

I'm not suing anyone so who's arguing with that. Are you saying that I don't have the right to point out the similarity?

I think you probably mean that you've never heard of the website but clearly many have from the number of entries.

Message edited by author 2004-03-31 12:23:36.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II