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05/30/2008 09:10:40 AM · #1 |
Just thought I'd post a couple reminders regarding validation requests in light of some of the comments I've seen in recent days. A lot of times, when people respond to validation requests, they'll add a note saying something along the lines of, "I don't see why this is being questioned - it's only scoring a 4.5!"
Please understand that potentially high-scoring shots are not the only ones that come up for review. In fact, there's really no correlation between how a shot is scoring, and whether it will be called for review while a challenge is in the voting phase. (After a challenge is finished and the winners are posted, the top 5 shots are always requested for review, however. I'm referring here to requests being made during voting.)
Anyone can question the validity of any shot while they're voting. Each and every request that is made for review triggers some degree of activity on the part of Site Council. We'll read the comments from the person who requested that the shot be reviewed, and we'll determine whether to request proof from the photographer who submitted the shot.
We do not request proof for every shot requested. Oftentimes people make requests for reviews on shots that we can see are pretty obviously valid -- like if someone questions whether a simple border is allowed on an image, for example. We get quite a few requests saying, "Is this border legal?" And most of the time they are, and require no further review. Another example we get quite often is requests for legal usage of selective desaturation (there are cases where we do check the use of selective desaturation, too -- because it's not always done according to the rules).
If we do request proof for your shot, please don't automatically feel offended by the request. People have a tendency to get upset because we're asking for proof on an image. It's really to your benefit that we do this, because we'll often add a validation note to shots so others know that it has already been validated. And it's to the benefit of the site as a whole because even though there's no physical prize involved in winning a challenge, it is very important to us that people win challenges by following the rule sets.
Sometimes people are puzzled by why their shots are coming under review, and sometimes we'll request shots based pretty much on someone's strong whim or inside knowledge of an area. For example, I can recall people requesting proof on shots of various landmarks because they live nearby and noticed something in the shot that may not have belonged there during the submission timeframe.
Anyway... please bear in mind that we're not "out to get you" if we request proof for your shot. We're here to ensure the integrity of the challenges for everyone, and we don't make validation requests as a way of pointing an accusatory finger.
Thanks for listenin'! :)
Editing for blatant violations of political correctness :)
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 10:15:07. |
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05/30/2008 09:21:30 AM · #2 |
I always take a request for validation as a compliment.
While we are on this subject could we please remind the viewers to vote on the worth of the image even if they think it is illegal.
Thanks |
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05/30/2008 09:23:06 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by MichaelC:
While we are on this subject could we please remind the viewers to vote on the worth of the image even if they think it is illegal. |
That's certainly worth repeating. Just because YOU think a shot is illegal doesn't mean you should slap it with a 1 or whatever. If you think a shot violates the rules, request it for review and vote as though it's legal.
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 09:23:23. |
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05/30/2008 09:32:34 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Just thought I'd post a couple reminders regarding DQ requests in light of some of the comments I've seen in recent days. A lot of times, when people respond to DQ requests, they'll add a note saying something along the lines of, "I don't see why this is being questioned - it's only scoring a 4.5!" |
I said 4.9 not 4.5 but it is dropping so I guess it is ok |
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05/30/2008 09:59:35 AM · #5 |
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the latter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved.
Edit typo - latter/matter
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 10:17:02. |
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05/30/2008 10:02:17 AM · #6 |
unfortunate for whom?
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the matter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved. |
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05/30/2008 10:04:42 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by hopper:
unfortunate for whom?
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the matter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved. |
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Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty: That is whom! |
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05/30/2008 10:08:37 AM · #8 |
you don't think you're reading into things a bit?
did Alan say guilty until proven innocent?
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Originally posted by hopper:
unfortunate for whom?
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the matter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved. |
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Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty: That is whom! |
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05/30/2008 10:12:22 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by hopper:
you don't think you're reading into things a bit?
did Alan say guilty until proven innocent?
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Originally posted by hopper:
unfortunate for whom?
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the matter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved. |
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Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty: That is whom! |
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Take it easy... I am just trying to explain what I think  SaraR said.
Innocent... Guilty.. what ever... where I come from there are much much bigger things to worry about. Believe me. Peace. |
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05/30/2008 10:16:14 AM · #10 |
my thoughts as well ... i was remaining calm :)
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Innocent... Guilty.. what ever... where I come from there are much much bigger things to worry about. |
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05/30/2008 10:17:45 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by hopper:
you don't think you're reading into things a bit?
did Alan say guilty until proven innocent?
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Originally posted by hopper:
unfortunate for whom?
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the matter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved. |
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Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty: That is whom! |
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It's a valid point. Language has a lot of weight. A "validation request" sounds a lot more neutral than a "DQ request". And heaven knows that's how I view it when I make one; in my mind I am NOT "asking SC to disqualify a picture", I am "asking SC if this image is valid", and there's a big difference, because I don't KNOW, see?
R. |
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05/30/2008 10:22:36 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty... |
It shouldn't make any difference whether someone requests proof of validity or investigation of wrongdoing. It's the same process, and either way is still treated as innocent until proven guilty. Imagine Olympic athletes demanding that "random dug tests" be called "random drug-free confirmations" to avoid any negative connotation. :-/ |
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05/30/2008 10:24:19 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by MichaelC:
I always take a request for validation as a compliment.
While we are on this subject could we please remind the viewers to vote on the worth of the image even if they think it is illegal.
Thanks |
I guess I'm getting off pretty lucky, I've never had a (knock on woood) "validation request" yet. I would still think that it should be taken as a compliment though.!
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05/30/2008 10:35:25 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
Alan, I think it is rather unfortunate that you refer to it as DQ requests, rather than Validation requests - the former carries with it implications of guilt, whilst the latter suggests more of a puzzle to be solved.
Edit typo - latter/matter |
Agree with that wholeheartedly. |
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05/30/2008 10:37:50 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Guilty until proven innocent… Innocent until proven guilty... |
It shouldn't make any difference whether someone requests proof of validity or investigation of wrongdoing. It's the same process, and either way is still treated as innocent until proven guilty. Imagine Olympic athletes demanding that "random dug tests" be called "random drug-free confirmations" to avoid any negative connotation. :-/ |
SO WE ARE ON DRUGS NOW SC??? just kidding
Oh ... And I am not being nice to the SC because I have a photo under consideration. I just love them. AND THAT IS FOR A FACT
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 10:40:19. |
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05/30/2008 11:02:13 AM · #16 |
I've had a few validation requests during my tenure here but have never been offended by them. I must admit I always get curious as to why the request was made, human nature I guess. It would be nice to know what the quetion or concern was either before or after the validation. Kind of like letting people know why they get DQed when they do.
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 11:02:38. |
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05/30/2008 11:08:19 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
I've had a few validation requests during my tenure here but have never been offended by them. I must admit I always get curious as to why the request was made, human nature I guess. It would be nice to know what the quetion or concern was either before or after the validation. Kind of like letting people know why they get DQed when they do. |
If you ask us afterwards (via Help -> Contact Us), we'll probably be able to give you a rough idea what the original query was. However, we obviously won't send you the original request exactly, as we need to preserve the anonymity of the requestors.
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05/30/2008 11:33:50 AM · #18 |
Validation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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05/30/2008 11:38:07 AM · #19 |
As a whole I think the process is great. When there is an obvious question as to the validity it is very easy to point out what you think might be wrong. However, when you are slapped with two requests in two straight weeks one might begin to think that something is a bit fishy. But hey life goes on.
In all reality, I wish that validation requests could be extended to include validtion of whether or not an image meets the challenge. Say you think it is DNMC, you request a DNMC validation, and the submitter explains why they submitted what they did. If the SC voted that it does in fact meet the challenge then a note explaining why could be added to the image much like a validation note is added.
I too agree that having your image validated can help an image in votes. In fact I have submitted for prevalidation on a couple of occasions in hope that my image would have that statement below it so that voters would know that it is legit and vote based on the image and not whether or not they thought it was. I like, just extend it to make it better for everyone.
Again, for those that wonder, the box is Tide that I am standing on and I will be here all week.........
Oh, crap, forgot to add, that the opionions expressed here represent the opinions of myself and nobody else. They also do not represent any organization or entity and certainly are not indicitive of the views of any government or governing agency.
....There, I think I am covered....
Peace
Benjamin
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05/30/2008 12:28:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
In all reality, I wish that validation requests could be extended to include validtion of whether or not an image meets the challenge. Say you think it is DNMC, you request a DNMC validation, and the submitter explains why they submitted what they did. If the SC voted that it does in fact meet the challenge then a note explaining why could be added to the image much like a validation note is added. |
Whether or an image DNMC is totally up to the voter, and is in essence what the voting system is for - if an image doesnt meet the challenge, score it appropriately. I don't think it's the SC's place to make any judgements on DNMC issues...
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05/30/2008 01:25:30 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Manic:
Originally posted by BHuseman:
In all reality, I wish that validation requests could be extended to include validtion of whether or not an image meets the challenge. Say you think it is DNMC, you request a DNMC validation, and the submitter explains why they submitted what they did. If the SC voted that it does in fact meet the challenge then a note explaining why could be added to the image much like a validation note is added. |
Whether or an image DNMC is totally up to the voter, and is in essence what the voting system is for - if an image doesnt meet the challenge, score it appropriately. I don't think it's the SC's place to make any judgements on DNMC issues... |
And even IF the SC were allowed to rule on meeting the challenge, it wouldn't make any difference: the ones they thought didn't meet the challenge would get thrown out, sure, but the ones they DID find met the challenge would still get the low votes from voters who don't agree and get hammered in the end.
Unless Bhuseman's proposing a "This image meets the challenge" stamp during voting? jejeje™
R.
Message edited by author 2008-05-30 13:25:54.
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05/30/2008 01:56:28 PM · #22 |
I don't understand why the DNMC's even has some up. If someone is asking for validation on images they think don't fit the challenge than that isn't right.
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05/30/2008 03:56:26 PM · #23 |
I must admit the misnomer in the title led me to believe that this was going to be related to the request for self-DG, NOT a validation request thread.
I found the subject amusing because I got a validation request......I've got two images in voting, one that's a 6.2xxx and one that's 4.5xxx.....guess which one got the request?
I kniow it has nothing to do with the score, but I seriously considered a DQ Request simply to save the aggravation of validating my image.
I shoot only in RAW, I have dial-up, and sometimes I forget to save an image with adjustments before I save for web and wipe out the history.
So validating this image is a real PITA......plus, there are personal reasons it irks me to get a validation request on this particular image.
Anyway......I've only gotten one or two in the past, and they were on good scoring images, so I was just kind of taken aback.
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05/30/2008 04:05:13 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
For example, I can recall people requesting proof on shots of various landmarks because they live nearby and noticed something in the shot that may not have belonged there during the submission timeframe. |
I can attest to that. I'm still looking for the person who ratted me out on this one...
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05/30/2008 04:41:25 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Validation is the sincerest form of flattery. |
That's how I feel. I love pulling something off that someone thought couldn't be done.
In fact, I've gotten pretty good at predicting when someone will request a validation. Just happened on an image in scoring now. When I think it's likely, I submit my proof before voting even starts. That way the SC immediately has the files.
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