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02/21/2004 06:08:14 PM · #1 |
Does anyone else ever regret, however fleetingly, becoming involved in a "voting" site?
This morning I updated scores and went, oh yeah, okay - you know, my standard sort of score - in the 5 range - slightly below, slighty above - but in that range. A moment ago I updated and a single vote dropped the average significantly enough that I actually got out a calculator (first time for that!) and calculated what the vote must have been.
I realized it was a 1. Which is like leaving a waitress a $0.10 tip. A "1" is "this sucks beyond belief and you need to take up another hobby". Or at least that's how a "1" from me should be interpreted. I have never given a 1 or a 2 and a few rare 3s. 4 is more or less my lowest score.
So, I was sort of sad. You know - like "Oh my, is it THAT awful?" THis is not a "why don't I score higher" issue. I know why I don't score higher. I am not as good yet as those that do. Simple enough conclusion. Not a particularly bothersome one for me, either.
This is a "does this hamper me as an artist" issue. Do others ever have these internal wrestling matches and wonder whether it's a good idea to allow themselves to be voted upon in an artistic context and to presume to vote on others?
My thing was that the emotion of "Oh my!" was very strong and my instinctive reaction is to want to quit altogether or to want to copy the style of shots that win - either thing being equally unpleasant to me.
Anyway - just wondering - babbling - you know. Not complaining. Part of it is surely ego - I can't imagine any photograph that I submit to a challenge being a "1" to _anyone_, but clearly I am wrong :)
Catherine
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02/21/2004 06:13:56 PM · #2 |
Catherine, it's ok, it's only a score. In the black challenge I chose a shot I used a soft filter on and it was eaten alive. I think that there are a lot of inexperienced photographers on this site, since they are here to learn that is, so people seem to vote on "like", not the quality of the photo. I've seen excellent photos shot down by many fantastic photographers in the short time I've been here. Some people feel comfortable giving a very well executed photo a 1 because they dont like it. So, I try not to take it personal and just keep on putting the photos out there. After all, all the fun is in making the shot, not what other people think. If you like or love it, thats what counts.
Message edited by author 2004-02-21 18:15:31. |
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02/21/2004 06:24:35 PM · #3 |
When I submit a picture that doesn't do well, I feel sad and consider leaving. And I feel sadder when I get a low score on a picture that I know isn't bad, but maybe isn't as obvious as it should have been to meet the challenge. I'm glad I haven't quit because I have learned a lot and taken more risky shots.
Now I focus on taking photos in a style I like but I do think of ways to try to fit my subjects into what I consider to be the tastes of the audience. It's sorta like adding polish to what I'd be inclined to do anyway. So. The answer to your question is I don't feel that it causes me to meld with the group and lose my originality. It is helping me refine those things that I love about photography and art.
BTW. I have a new personal favorite. I entered it into the mundane challenge.
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02/21/2004 06:24:48 PM · #4 |
Catherine:
You take amazing photographs. You have nothing at all to worry about! Definetely don't find another hobby! Don't let your score get to you. I just won my first ribbon in the black challenge. It's not even close to one of my favorite of my own photos. In fact, some of my favorites are my lowest scoring photos, and I'm talking under 5's. You have to keep in mind that in the challenges there are a wide variety of people who have different tastes. It's hard to come up with shots that will appeal to everyone. I'm usually happy with a few good comments from photographers that I respect. I've given out a few 1's, mainly to tiny images that are so pixilized and blurry and of nothing. I tend to stick to 3 as my lowest score. I loved your black entry by the way! :) |
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02/21/2004 06:28:22 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Catherine:
... A "1" is "this sucks beyond belief and you need to take up another hobby"... |
I feel the same way about scoring a photo a 1; I look at it as "There is nothing you could have done to make this photo worse."
People here give an incredible amount of 1's. (And I'm not just talking about my challenge photos...) I suppose if there were negative numbers to give, they would use those, too.
I, too, accept that some people will like (and dislike) any given photo more than another. But IMHO, a "1" should be reserved for a bad concept poorly executed - not just "I've seen this before, and better!" which is a common attitude.
Keep your chin up, stay with the site for the things you like about it, ignore the idiots, take stock in the constructive comments, and enjoy your hobby.
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02/21/2004 06:28:46 PM · #6 |
Well, I just got a 1 as well (same voter?). I'd really like to see comments from people that vote low, I've already learnt much from commenters. I'm a 'novice' here and vote as I see, not spending 2+ minutes studying a pic.
At the end of the day a couple of 1's will make little difference when you get (maybe) 400 votes.
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02/21/2004 06:32:04 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Catherine:
...I realized it was a 1. Which is like leaving a waitress a $0.10 tip. A "1" is "this sucks beyond belief and you need to take up another hobby". Or at least that's how a "1" from me should be interpreted. I have never given a 1 or a 2 and a few rare 3s. 4 is more or less my lowest score... |
Catherine,
Since I track my scores obsessively, I occasionally realize I've just been "1'ed"; it happened this week in "black".
It never fails to sting, however, I KNOW my pic is not that bad.
Bottom line, there are a small minority on the site however that seem to vote the extremes. The consolation is they are a very small minority. Their votes tend to fall outside the range of expected votes (they are statistical outliers, for the most part) and they are few, so take them with a big grain of salt.
Harder to take with a grain of salt are the outlier "10s", LOL.
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02/21/2004 06:38:31 PM · #8 |
| Whenever you got a 1, Catherine, just think, there's someone who adores your shot so much, they're giving it a 10. Opinions are all about balance.. You may get someone who dislikes who shot, but the attitude to take is 'Well, this person likes it.. I know who *I* believe!'. :-) |
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02/21/2004 06:45:47 PM · #9 |
Dont take it pesonally - nobody is voting against you - its that they might not have the same views as you do on the photo, maybe its just not their type of photograph.
Remember differnt strokes for different folks.
Trust me I know what it feels to get low scores - but you cant let that get you down.
I myself have given 1's and 2's - but those are for weak pictures which go way off the challenge titles.
Remember this site runs on votes - so there is a freedom of speech for everyone.
You cannot make them vote better but only improve yourself.
I guess most of the low votes come from people who have no proper artistic point of view.
You cant let this get you down - im sure in the next challenge you will score much higher.
Good luck !
Cheers!
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02/21/2004 06:51:31 PM · #10 |
Just pretend that the person wanted to see the last shot and by accidently gave you a "1" instead of clicking on the left arrow.
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02/21/2004 06:51:50 PM · #11 |
| even the winning shots get ones. i wouldn't worry about it. |
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02/21/2004 07:07:12 PM · #12 |
Catherine, I believe it all averages out. Like others have said, even the winners get ones... What I'm coming to understand, however, is the tremendous variability among those who participate in a venture such as dpchallenge. I should have surmized it in the beginning, but I now think it's just a symptom of what the Internet is doing to all of us. We have people from every corner of the planet - with unique perspectives and attitudes - coupled with widely varying technical capabilities (different monitors, connection speeds, tools like Photoshop etc....). As you and I come to know our audience better, we'll be in a position to better deliver what the "average" likes - IF that's what we want to do.
Message edited by author 2004-02-21 19:08:03. |
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02/21/2004 07:10:54 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Catherine, I believe it all averages out. Like others have said, even the winners get ones... What I'm coming to understand, however, is the tremendous variability among those who participate in a venture such as dpchallenge. I should have surmized it in the beginning, but I now think it's just a symptom of what the Internet is doing to all of us. We have people from every corner of the planet - with unique perspectives and attitudes - coupled with widely varying technical capabilities (different monitors, connection speeds, tools like Photoshop etc....). As you and I come to know our audience better, we'll be in a position to better deliver what the "average" likes - IF that's what we want to do. |
Very well said! I believe that makes us more cultured photographers. Ah, technology is a beautiful thing! :)
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02/21/2004 07:19:35 PM · #14 |
Don't let them get you down.
Shoot for yourself!
Shoot for yourself!
Shoot for yourself! |
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02/21/2004 07:25:25 PM · #15 |
>Addendum
Next challenge it might be me down in the mouth.
I'll be chanting:
shoot me
shoot me
shoot me |
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02/21/2004 07:34:36 PM · #16 |
Yep, 1's sting a bit. I'm pretty good about letting stuff like that just roll off of me and just take whatever constructive criticism I can use and move on.
You really do have some wonderful photos that bring a lot of enjoyment to us. I hope you feel better about it and keep shooting your style...just maybe figuring out how you want to grow as a photographer and use this site to help you with that.
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02/21/2004 07:53:26 PM · #17 |
You know who I take photos for? Me...I enjoy sharing them here and getting feedback, but as long as I like them, that's enough. I'm learning by looking around here.
I took a look at your stuff, and I can't imagine you not being anything but proud of your work...keep it up...some of us know how to appreciate a good thing :) |
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02/21/2004 07:59:03 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by justine:
>Addendum
Next challenge it might be me down in the mouth.
I'll be chanting:
shoot me
shoot me
shoot me |
Justine, that's a very funny comeback! Thanks for the giggle.
Meanwhile, on the subject of those lowly 1s - Maybe instead of scoring a 1, someone rescored from (say) a 9 to an 8! |
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02/21/2004 08:05:55 PM · #19 |
| We all have to do really bad at times to be able to do well, thats just the way it is! |
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02/21/2004 09:01:12 PM · #20 |
I just signed on after being gone for about 4 hours - and I think I was "1'd" as well - for a shot that I actually really like. At least this turkey of a commenter left a comment (with which I respectfully disagree) so I can let it go. As others have said, if you're happy with it, then don't let the odd "turkeys" get you down. I take constructive valid critique very well, but get a little irritated with a know-it-all attitude when it isn't backed up by a good portfolio.
BTW, Catherine, you left a comment on my texture challenge submission - with a slight critique that I agree with completely - something I noticed after I'd submitted. Thanks!
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02/21/2004 09:03:30 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Catherine:
A "1" is "this sucks beyond belief and you need to take up another hobby". Or at least that's how a "1" from me should be interpreted. |
Different people have different voting methods. To many voters, a photo that "doesn't meet the challenge" gets a "1". I personally think this is a bit severe, but it is certainly one interpretation of the Challenge Rule "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." |
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02/21/2004 09:28:53 PM · #22 |
I try to always comment when I vote less then a 4 to let the person know why I didn't like it. I think it's common courtesy to do so. I found that the number of commentrs I get is always proportional to the score, the higher the score the more comments. In most cases most of the comments say nice shot. I appreciate those comments, but I learn more from the comments from the people that didn't like it.
When I leave a comment it's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth. Me not liking a photo doesn't mean it's good or bad and should in no way hurt anyone's feeling. It's simply my opinion and doesn't really matter all that much.
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02/21/2004 09:44:21 PM · #23 |
| Just remember that photography and any art is subjective. Even the great masters have people that don't like some of their work or just don't get them. If we all liked the same thing, what a terribly boring world it would be. Often I will put up a picture that I think is pretty great, and when the voting starts coming in, I am "shocked" that it isn't doing better. Then I look at the other pictures and comments that they make and think okay...this is what I need to do to make it better...Sometimes I still think everyone else is insane for not loving it....so keep on shooting and remember who you are really shooting for. Doesn't it make you feel great taking pictures? |
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02/21/2004 10:00:59 PM · #24 |
Catherine, I can't believe that you just now got your calculator out to check a score! You've been missing out on all the fun. You have to sit there and click update 500 times in an hour and calculate each score. It's a site rule, isn't it? And then you have to yell choice words like "That's not a one you idiot", in a loud tone as the ones and twos come in! It makes the nines and tens all the more worthwhile!
Check out most of the ribbon winners. They all have stupidly low votes.
You do great work! |
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02/21/2004 10:13:19 PM · #25 |
Oh, Oh: Catherine got me thinking.....
So, I looked back at all of my past challenge entries with 1's in them. The very first entry I submitted to the site garnered nine 1's (mostly because the image flat out stunk).
Since that first disaster however, the 1's that I have received were on images that I feel were technically sound but (probably) lacking in one of two different areas:
Example 1:
An image that is believed 'shoehorned' in and does not 'meet the challenge'. (I knew I was reaching a bit to meet the challenge, but does that alone warrant a '1', let alone five of them).
Example 2:
An image is believed to have breached the 'non-editing' rule (which was uniformly in place at the time of this example, and now only for 'basic' challenges). This was a blue ribbon winner, yet managed two 1's.
Then, I guess there is this example that I haven't a clue why it was deserving the two 1's.
Hey!.... What if we graded each image (1 to 10 scale) in two categories, 'Meeting Challenge' and 'Image quality', so the image grade would not suffer from our 'opinions' of how to vote the challenge.
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