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07/31/2007 01:24:55 PM · #1
Here is one of my brilliant ideas and I am sure you will love it, we start put it in action soon.

We have these member challenges, exclusive challenges... why don't we have one that voted only by a few selected judges. SC selects a group of people, about 50 or 100 to vote only designated challenges.

I really would like to see a bit consistent and quality votes for our hard works. This also would eliminate “troll” phenomenon totally. Voting could go for 2 or 3 days instead of whole week :)

Yeah, go Leo :P
07/31/2007 01:30:22 PM · #2
That might be interesting but I think the best way to beat the trolls and friend voters is to have more people vote which would dilute the effects of idiot voters (At times I need to include myself in that statement), The more voters the better to get a true ranking. I see so many people complain then say that is why I do note vote, it should be the other way around!
07/31/2007 01:31:25 PM · #3
Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?
07/31/2007 01:38:47 PM · #4
Originally posted by jhonan:

Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


They are the trolls... sorry I could not just ignore a perfect set up...:)

I think trolls is an excuse a lot of the time, there are several people that vote ones if they feel the image does not meet the challenge which can be percieved as troll voting when it actually means someone felt the image misssed the mark.

Back onto the original intent, this could be interesting but I really do not think it would change to many of the results.
07/31/2007 01:40:49 PM · #5
Originally posted by PapaBob:

I think trolls is an excuse a lot of the time

Ah ha! :)
07/31/2007 01:43:10 PM · #6
Originally posted by jhonan:

Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


They dont always avoid trolls, not sure what the latest trend is bu i think theres been some blues that got 9 random as hell 1's.
07/31/2007 01:47:32 PM · #7
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Originally posted by jhonan:

Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


They dont always avoid trolls, not sure what the latest trend is bu i think theres been some blues that got 9 random as hell 1's.

The point I was making is that people get upset about perceived 'trolls' and how we can root them out. In reality, if these troll voters exist, then they're going to affect all the scores equally. Besides, troll voting 1's and 2's on all the images is impossible, as these votes get discarded.

Rather than worry about the voting system why not spend that time and effort thinking up creative ideas for the next challenge.
07/31/2007 01:48:11 PM · #8
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Originally posted by jhonan:

Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


They dont always avoid trolls, not sure what the latest trend is bu i think theres been some blues that got 9 random as hell 1's.


And that is why the panel vote might be interesdting to try, but the majority of the time really good images win, are they the ones that should if everything was on the up and up.....?
07/31/2007 01:49:29 PM · #9
What if SC, or whoever, picked the trolls, not knowing they were trolls?

(For the record, I've not decided if I think this is a good idea or not, that thought just came to mind)
07/31/2007 01:51:54 PM · #10
Originally posted by karmat:

What if SC, or whoever, picked the trolls, not knowing they were trolls?

(For the record, I've not decided if I think this is a good idea or not, that thought just came to mind)


we trust you ;)
07/31/2007 03:23:37 PM · #11
So, the idea is for juried competitions, right?
07/31/2007 03:29:14 PM · #12
Sounds like an interesting idea - worth doing at least once. The selected voters would have to keep it to themselves, or there will be hurt feelings all around. AND these selected voters would have to leave in-depth comments - aha!
07/31/2007 03:30:04 PM · #13
Originally posted by focuspoint:


I really would like to see a bit consistent and quality votes for our hard works. Yeah, go Leo :P


Shall I assume that this comment could be interpreted as meaning that the current set of votes cast are "Inconsistent" and of "dubious" quality?

Rather disheartening to think that after almost 100,000 votes, my efforts, and those of countless others are seemingly summarily dismissed.

Ray
07/31/2007 03:34:29 PM · #14
How about 3-10 judges each voting 100%, completely open disclosed voting (viewable alongside the rest of the votes), and the judges available to answer some "why" questions afterwards. The judges would have quite a bit of work to do, but I'm sure that there would be some volunteers.

This could be run alongside regular voting. It would be important to have a small enough group of judges that it would not repeat the full vote consensus.

07/31/2007 03:37:39 PM · #15
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

[quote=jhonan] Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


. . .In reality, if these troll voters exist, then they're going to affect all the scores equally.. . .

I don't think so. I think the true trolls (and there ARE some) vote 1's and 2's on the really great images so that their image has a better edge. And they keep from being too obvious because they'll go to the obviously inferior images and vote them way up.

But if you look at some of the incredible ribbon winners -- and whether you care for that style of photography or not -- they are GOOD photos, and most of them will have a certain amount of 1's and 2's. That's just ridiculous!

i.e. these ribbon winners just to name a few:
Two 1's; One 2 (puhhhhhlleeeease!!!)


One 1; One 2; and Two 3's


Two 2's


Oh, and there is no question about these meeting the challenge either.



Message edited by author 2007-07-31 15:39:07.
07/31/2007 03:40:15 PM · #16
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by focuspoint:


I really would like to see a bit consistent and quality votes for our hard works. Yeah, go Leo :P


Shall I assume that this comment could be interpreted as meaning that the current set of votes cast are "Inconsistent" and of "dubious" quality?

Rather disheartening to think that after almost 100,000 votes, my efforts, and those of countless others are seemingly summarily dismissed.

Ray

The voting is "inconsistent" in that, since not everyone votes on 100% of the entries, each photo has been rated by a slightly different pool of voters. With a "jury" you know that all of the photos have been judged by the same people.
07/31/2007 03:40:59 PM · #17
Originally posted by jhonan:

Rather than worry about the voting system why not spend that time and effort thinking up creative ideas for the next challenge.

Yup.

And if a "troll" is anybody who disagrees with your sense of aesthetics, then yes, there are a lot of trolls on this site.
07/31/2007 03:51:42 PM · #18
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by focuspoint:


I really would like to see a bit consistent and quality votes for our hard works. Yeah, go Leo :P


Shall I assume that this comment could be interpreted as meaning that the current set of votes cast are "Inconsistent" and of "dubious" quality?

Rather disheartening to think that after almost 100,000 votes, my efforts, and those of countless others are seemingly summarily dismissed.

Ray


yes
07/31/2007 03:58:18 PM · #19
No matter what you do, it will not change many things. If you look at all the past challenges; the best pictures are getting the good overall scores and the bad ones are getting the low scores. I never seen a picture deserving the Blue ending up with the Brown.

Message edited by author 2007-07-31 16:04:45.
07/31/2007 04:00:27 PM · #20
Don't take it hard, Ray... If you've been watching the "scores" threads, you probably noticed that Leo has been a bit unhappy with his scores lately. I think that may have helped him come to this conclusion.

By belittling voters to make yourself feel better about your images (must have been the dirty trolls) you simply reduce the amount of decent people who will freely give of their time to vote, further reducing the quality and variety of the vote.
07/31/2007 04:04:19 PM · #21
Originally posted by smurfguy:

Don't take it hard, Ray... If you've been watching the "scores" threads, you probably noticed that Leo has been a bit unhappy with his scores lately. I think that may have helped him come to this conclusion.

By belittling voters to make yourself feel better about your images (must have been the dirty trolls) you simply reduce the amount of decent people who will freely give of their time to vote, further reducing the quality and variety of the vote.


correct... but it could be a good idea anyway.
07/31/2007 04:11:18 PM · #22
Originally posted by focuspoint:

correct... but it could be a good idea anyway.

Yes, it could be interesting.
07/31/2007 04:19:20 PM · #23
I don't want to see juried competitions on DPC. That's not what DPC is for, at least not in a formal sense. There are loads of other places where a small, dedicated group decides who wins. Betterphoto.com, for example.

That's just my opinion, though.

If you want to create a group of people who offer to do this, though, no one's stopping you. Recruit some folks to volunteer to vote on 100% of some future challenge (and make sure they don't enter to avoid anyone claiming they're colluding), have them send you their votes, and publish the results. See whether they differ substantially from the full vote. Keep in mind that there will almost certainly be some small variations, but I'd bet not many major ones.

If it's a success, then maybe Langdon would consider recoding things to incorporate the concept. He did incorporate the WPL, after all.
07/31/2007 04:59:05 PM · #24
You are putting too much importance on the score. Overall average scores in challenges fluctuate, and you can't use that as a judge of how well your photo does in a given challenge. If you want to see how you really stack up you should look at your percentile finish, it is independent of your score and consistent. Complaining about the voters and wasting time trying to work around the trolls will get you nowhere but stressed out and it would be better spent learning your camera and taking images. If the trolls are consistent it has no basis on the overall finish. And if you think "yeah but they only vote down the ones they think will win." Well I would say that just like you non-trolls think different photos should win so would the trolls and would disperse there ones like you do your tens. It all evens out. If you are consistently getting hit with low votes from many voters I think you have to go back and analyze your photo objectively, rather than look for new people to vote on your work.

@SandyP- I have to disagree abit about those low votes being trolls. The winners you posted are heavily post-processed, there are many who like to see more natural looking photos. Is it not ok for those to vote on what they like?

(all my opinion of course) :)
07/31/2007 05:00:25 PM · #25
Originally posted by jhonan:

Howcome the ribbon winners are able to avoid the trolls?


They have more friends :P
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