Duotone Legality in PSP - DPChallenge Forums

01/09/2006 04:09:11 PM · #1

1. Are duotones legal in basic editing challenges? The things I see in moodville's tutorial seem legal, they're applied evenly to the whole image.
2. Are duotones legal in advanced editing challenges? As far as I remember, I've seen some duotone ribbon winners.

I'd like to have some SC statement on this.
I'll explain what I'm getting at later. The rabbit hole is deep, this will be a step by step thing.

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 16:10:45.

01/09/2006 04:39:34 PM · #2

Yes, legal for both basic and advanced. For advanced, it pretty much matters not how you achieve it. For basic, remember the rules are more technique-based, so care is in order. A basic-legal workflow for duotone looks something like this (in PS, don't know PSP equivalents)

1.) Convert to grayscale
2.) Convert to 8-bit/channel if it's a 16-bit image
3.) Image>mode>duotone and make your settings or load the saved profile
4.) Image>mode>RGB
5.) Any remaining editing, save and submit

Kamlan 28mm F1.4 MF for APS-C

01/10/2006 06:34:14 AM · #3

Originally posted by kirbic:

(in PS, don't know PSP equivalents)
3.) Image>mode>duotone and make your settings or load the saved profile

This is what I'm getting at. The duotone option is not available in PSP. Next step: do you consider the means or the ends for duotones? I followed that recent thread about DrJones DQed image a bit, so I guess it's the ends that count?

Manic

DJI Mini 3 Pro

01/12/2006 12:51:28 PM · #4

As with anything for Basic Editing, it needs to be applied to the entire image. On the whole, if what you're doing is only affecting the colours of the image, then it'll be legal (in both rulesets). You don't have to use a specific "duotone" tool to get the effect, as long as what you're doing is achieving the same thing.

01/12/2006 04:23:52 PM · #5

Okay, then that should be the basis for a tutorial I want to write. I order to create a duotone in PaintShopPro, you either need to
-modify the blend range of a duplicate layer, where both layers have a separate HSL adjustment layer, or
-add two plain coloured layers in 'color' mode and adjust their blend ranges.

The first method would usually be illegal because the layer is not appllied at full opacity (due to the blend range).
The second method would usually be illegal because you create layers with pixel-data, layers that are not adjustment layers, and use them in a blend mode different from 'normal'.

Could I please have a confirmation that the two above mentioned methods are, in fact, legal under both basic and advanced editing rules, if applied to the whole image, and with the sole purpose to create a duotone image, where the result is equivalent to the Photoshop implemented duotone effect.

01/12/2006 04:30:58 PM · #6

Unfortunately, both the use of a duplicate image layer with modified blending, and also the use of plain color layers with modified blending would be illegal in basic since they involve layers other than adjustment layers.
I'm sure that there is a viable basic-legal workflow for duotone in PSP, but I'm not aware of it.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

01/12/2006 04:50:43 PM · #7

Kirbic, unfortunately that is not so. PSP has no automatic duotone action. (At least up to version 9.) If these methods are not legal, users of PSP have a disadvantage compared to Photoshop users, even though the result is the same. The actual difference is that the user has to do the steps manually instead of letting the program do it.

Can anyone think of a method to create duotones in a situation where the is no duotone action available? After all, a duotone is per definition something that affects dark areas of an image with another colour than bright ones.

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

01/12/2006 04:51:29 PM · #8

hi, stupid question here but what exactly is a doutone? photoshop has it, it looks cool, but what is it for...can it be modified to be other than the blue that i have, do you have an example of what i should use it for.

kinda feel dumb not knowing what all of these neet little buttons are for but i do know i can do a lot more with them than i'm doing.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2006 04:56:14 PM · #9

Not a stupid question -- start with this tutorial.

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

01/12/2006 04:59:11 PM · #10

cool thanx

01/12/2006 05:02:20 PM · #11

Yes, I realize that there is no "canned" duotone capability in PSP. I do believe that some significant "creativity" would surely be necessary to come up with a procedure for duplicating the duotone look in PSP within a basic-legal workflow. I THINK it's possible, but not having PSP personally and not being an expert on it, I'm really guessing here.
I know this is not a real positive answer to your question. It's an unfortunate outcome of the fact that the Bassic ruleset is method-based, not outcome-based as is the Advanced ruleset.

01/12/2006 05:08:41 PM · #12

On a side note, does none of the SC have access to PSP? That would surprise me indeed, it is the second most used program.

:.( I thought I had been creative enough by coming up with these techniques, because I really wanted to show PSP users how to do this (legally). There are no valuable tutorials on the internet.
[Grabs a drink and thinks harder.]
The main problem is a way to come around the essence of duotones - the way to select different light levels without changing blend ranges.

If adjustment layers had blend ranges (which they don't, at least in PSP), would it be legal to change them? Varying their opacity is.

01/12/2006 05:12:29 PM · #13

Gloda is right, there isn't an automatic way to make a duotone in PSP.

Would you maybe be able to approximate the result by using a couple "Channel Mixer" adjustment layers? Probably not.

01/12/2006 05:16:04 PM · #14

I'll point the SC to this thread... I would also be a bit surprised if there are no PSP users on the SC.
Is there a free trial for PSP? If so, I might be able to install it and kick the tires...

01/12/2006 05:19:05 PM · #15

Originally posted by gloda:

On a side note, does none of the SC have access to PSP? That would surprise me indeed, it is the second most used program.

I use PSP 9 almost exclusively (although I've been venturing into PSCS more and more, mainly to learn the language).

To be honest, I don't know what the basic concept of a duotone is. The tutorial doesn't explain that part.

Going by "looks" alone, it always looks to me that by using channel mixer (or some other b/w conversion) then using "Manual Color Correction" alone or in conjuction with adjusting "B/W points" gets you a sort of similar look.

If you come up with a way to replicate it, I'd like to know.

Free PSPX trial on www.corel.com

01/12/2006 05:19:56 PM · #16

01/12/2006 05:21:53 PM · #17

Originally posted by kirbic:

I'll point the SC to this thread...

I did so yesterday :) Thanks, Manic, for the revival.

01/12/2006 05:24:05 PM · #18

Ah, good, there is a free trial... I'll see if I can get time to play around with it, perhaps this weekend.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2006 05:25:59 PM · #19

Originally posted by ursula:

[...]using channel mixer (or some other b/w conversion) then using "Manual Color Correction" [...]

I just tried to follow your steps, but 'manual color correction' does not seem to be a possible step on grayscale images. Did I misunderstand you?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/12/2006 05:26:45 PM · #20

Basically, Photoshop's duotone is a grayscale image with two spot colors applied according to a table of values. It's usually (but not always) black plus one other color. It adds depth and contrast, especially in the midtones, while preserving highligh and shadow detail.

In the duotone table/curves, each input value (pixel brightness) is mapped to a new output value for each ink. Often, black is suppressed completely in the highlights, so for the black ink you might map all pixel values of 20% or less to 0, while not changing them for the color ink.

To reduce plugging the shadows, you often suppress part of the color ink range, by mapping all values from 70% and above to 70%.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2006 05:27:16 PM · #21

Originally posted by gloda:

Originally posted by ursula:
[...]using channel mixer (or some other b/w conversion) then using "Manual Color Correction" [...]

I just tried to follow your steps, but 'manual color correction' does not seem to be a possible step on grayscale images. Did I misunderstand you?

No, you didn't, but you have to convert a grayscale image back to a higher number of colours first. It will stay b/w, but colour changes can then happen.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/12/2006 05:28:04 PM · #22

Originally posted by gloda:

Try converting the grayscale back to RGB mode and see if you can play with it then. You might see if you can apply adjustments to each color channel separately.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/12/2006 05:29:22 PM · #23

Thanks, I should have thought of converting it back.
GeneralE - I do not understand anything of your previous post, sorry.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

01/12/2006 05:29:40 PM · #24

Originally posted by ursula:

I don't know what the basic concept of a duotone is.

A duotone uses two different ink colors (or channels in the case of RGB images) to give the a toned look. Depending on the hue and saturation of the second color, the result can be warmer, cooler, colorized and/or have more richness and depth than a straight grayscale image.

Message edited by author 2006-01-12 17:31:02.