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01/09/2006 03:42:29 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
I recognized this image in the mother challenge by Coley immediately...
He has pictures of his family all over his portfolio - should I vote him down and say he is immoral and unethical because he used models that could be easily recognized by anyone familiar with his work?
Has he not earned his past ribbons? |
There are hundreds of members here Megatherian. You happened to notice these in one members portfolio. LOL....I don't look around in portfolios that much, but I will tell you that I do have one of my three favorites FROM coley. Never noticed these though. Didn't recognize it. The fav I chose was from a challenge history and not the portfolio. But, Coley didn't place it in an open thread first for critique on a particular challenge they were entering. That is the difference. Had I noticed it in a portfolio, no I wouldn't have voted it down for that. It wasn't being solicited for pre-challenge critique in open forum.
Rose
Rose
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01/09/2006 03:43:30 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I agree with Rose. I think it's a cheesy thing to do. Once a photo has been posted to the forums, it should never be entered into an 'anonymous' challenge. |
THANK YOU for finding your way to this thread! Another voice of reason can ALWAYS be used! LOL....
Rose
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01/09/2006 03:44:12 PM · #28 |
We all know Arnit's models, Jacko's kid, Neuferland's girls, and probly 90% of the self portraits. These aren't anon either. Jacko won a ribbon with a photo of his kid, I think. We ALL know who took it. Maybe *gasp* it wasn't anonymous!
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01/09/2006 03:44:49 PM · #29 |
Remaining anonymous, while suggested, is not a hard and fast rule. I for one wouldn't feel right about posting to a forum then entering it in a challenge, but that's just me.
There have been numerous threads discussing this issue in the past. If memory serves me right, the general concensus was the photographer that isn't worried about the anonymity is taking a risk. The risk being some people will not look favorably on the entry, while others won't be put off by it. Overall, I think the concensus of DPCr's would prefer to remain anonymous.
In some other threads on this subject it was brought up that many members here are not exclusive to DPChallenge when it comes to photography sites. Feedback can be obtained in many other venues (other sites, family & friends, etc...) that most here would not be aware of. Actually, I would be more opposed to this happening than seeing an image show up here in a thread. At least by seeing it here I would know where it came from and decide for myself what action I want to take. ;^)
Either way, it's not worth this much fuss.
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01/09/2006 03:45:07 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Anonymity is really not so much the issue as having others say to you "the photo is great! I would enter it!". This is what is the problem to me. By saying that, you are basically saying that you would enter the same photo. Why? Because you think it would score well. Hence the entry goes in, and those who said that to the person who entered it have pretty much given them the confidence that they will receive some initially good scores.Rose |
This is a REALLY hard-line attitude. We're (supposedly) all here to encourage and support each other. Each person who said "Wow" to that shot could be seen as encouraging an entry that might very well beat thers. Seems pretty altruistic to me. Hammering on photographers because others saw merit in something they had passed over seems to me to be rather ruthless.
R. |
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01/09/2006 03:54:57 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
And I would bet dime to dollar that if it were "I" who had done this, there wouldn't be the same supportive attitude by many. |
Actually one of your good buddies posted his image in the thread WHILE voting was going on and you supported him. Why the reversal? Need I find the post?
note - I don't like when people post their images that are currently in voting, I'm not totally at peace with people posting, getting feedback and then submitting, but ya know what - if you really think it's 100% anonymous except for that guy's forum post, you need to think HARD again. It's not. |
I don't care about the anonymity factor (in a sense) as much as I care about asking if others should enter a photo, post it, and then enter it after receiving the high-fives on it.
I myself at another site have forgotten that my portfolio photos can be seen. This was before I learned how to use the functions. So that stuff happens. I am talking about specifically asking for critique on a specific photo for a specific upcoming challenge.
And I see you posted again on models, kids, etc. There have been times that I have left comments on photos that show faces and use portraits that are well known. I don't go for that either. I 'try' very hard not to vote with that mindset, but certainly you must be aware that if you know your own wifes photo, for example, you are going to vote it high? The same goes for good friends on this site. I have come to also recognize these at this point, and would rather votes not be based on popularity and are based on anonymity.
I don't know if you are aware, and I am sure you are, of a site called soaphoto.com. Now, please..LOL. There are the select few who are the top rankers on that site most of the time. They don't always win, but they always get the high points. Most on a deserved basis. But, just last week one of them posted the worst photo I have seen on that site to date....LOL. Yet, it drew in somethnig like 92 votes. I read the comments, and it was all about "Hi! How are you! Thought I would throw you some votes on this!" LOL....How do they know it is them? They look up their ID name due to popularity of photos each month, and they vote for their photos every month too. It's open public voting there, and I do mean OPEN. LOL.. No anonymity, nuttin. So a lot of the votes are based on the who knows who and not on technicals or merits of the photo.
The same can happen here if others know others well enough, and I am not going to propose it doesn't happen. Everyone is human. So I am not one for showing spouses, children, dogs, cats, models, etc in nearly every challenge for reasons of this human factor in voting.
Rose
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01/09/2006 03:58:53 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Remaining anonymous, while suggested, is not a hard and fast rule. I for one wouldn't feel right about posting to a forum then entering it in a challenge, but that's just me.
There have been numerous threads discussing this issue in the past. If memory serves me right, the general concensus was the photographer that isn't worried about the anonymity is taking a risk. The risk being some people will not look favorably on the entry, while others won't be put off by it. Overall, I think the concensus of DPCr's would prefer to remain anonymous.
In some other threads on this subject it was brought up that many members here are not exclusive to DPChallenge when it comes to photography sites. Feedback can be obtained in many other venues (other sites, family & friends, etc...) that most here would not be aware of. Actually, I would be more opposed to this happening than seeing an image show up here in a thread. At least by seeing it here I would know where it came from and decide for myself what action I want to take. ;^)
Either way, it's not worth this much fuss. |
This is very true. There are certainly others who may know others, etc. Personal websites, etc. That to me is another animal. They are not asking someone who is a voter here, or several, to critique a photo prechallenge. If they are known, they are known, but they are not asking others what they should do.
And yes, they are taking the risk. It is just with me, and how I feel about it, it is a risk that shouldn't be taken by my voting system.
Hey, you know, I am just stating my view on this "pre anonymity challenge critique" issue. Don't like it. Think it sux. And evidently I am not alone. It's a thread that can easily be passed by for those that don't feel it is worth the time of day.
Rose
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01/09/2006 04:00:33 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
The same can happen here if others know others well enough, and I am not going to propose it doesn't happen. Everyone is human. So I am not one for showing spouses, children, dogs, cats, models, etc in nearly every challenge for reasons of this human factor in voting. Rose |
Take me for an example. I retired. I moved 3000 miles to a place where I wanted to take pictures. I go back to the same locations over and over again to take pictures. They are all different-but-the-same. Plenty of people can spot a "bear_music" by now when I enter one of these images.
What should I do? These pictures are why i am here and they are the best work I do.
R. |
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01/09/2006 04:07:02 PM · #34 |
So I guess a fair number of us had better pull our entries for "Best of 2005".
"Challenge Details: Submit your best photograph taken in 2005.
Challenge Type: Member Challenge
Challenge Rules: Advanced Editing
Extra Rules: Your photograph must have been taken on or between January 1 and December 31, 2005. Please remember that you may not submit a photograph previously entered in another challenge."
I'll go on a limb here and say that there will be plenty of shots in that challenge that we've all seen before in members' profiles. Get over it, go take pictures and improve yourself as an artist.
Oh and:
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01/09/2006 04:10:46 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
The same can happen here if others know others well enough, and I am not going to propose it doesn't happen. Everyone is human. So I am not one for showing spouses, children, dogs, cats, models, etc in nearly every challenge for reasons of this human factor in voting. Rose |
Take me for an example. I retired. I moved 3000 miles to a place where I wanted to take pictures. I go back to the same locations over and over again to take pictures. They are all different-but-the-same. Plenty of people can spot a "bear_music" by now when I enter one of these images.
What should I do? These pictures are why i am here and they are the best work I do.
R. |
A few of you are missing the point, and bearmusic, you seem to be one of them. Do you place your photos pre-challenge on the site in open public forum asking for others to critique it before entering it? Or do you actually enter what you think will do the best on your own, or through other means. Maybe a general concensus by family members or whatever?
I don't care if I see a photo during the challenge that has the "bearmusic" flair to it. LOL....That is different. I don't think that is something that NEEDS to be criticized. We all have different styles than can be seen. Sometimes I can guess who they are and sometimes not. That is not the issue. The issues is putting up the photo in public seeing how it will fair by critique openly before submitting it. I mean, I would assume there would be back ups. For those that did that in public forum here, if the critique sucked, then they would most likely enter another. The only difference is, I wouldn't have noticed it then, but it doesn't make it any less immoral to me. The fact they posted the first choice is the major mistake.
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-01-09 16:11:28.
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01/09/2006 04:15:29 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by naldslc:
So I guess a fair number of us had better pull our entries for "Best of 2005".
"Challenge Details: Submit your best photograph taken in 2005.
Challenge Type: Member Challenge
Challenge Rules: Advanced Editing
Extra Rules: Your photograph must have been taken on or between January 1 and December 31, 2005. Please remember that you may not submit a photograph previously entered in another challenge."
I'll go on a limb here and say that there will be plenty of shots in that challenge that we've all seen before in members' profiles. Get over it, go take pictures and improve yourself as an artist.
Oh and:
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Members profiles and this ONE challenge for 2005 is another story entirely, IF you had read what has actually been said here. But, thanks for your intelligent input. LOL....
By the way, considering I have only been taking photos for about 5 months, I don't think I am doing half bad here, and neither is my current entry.
I agree. Those that feel their entries should have pre-challenge critique by voters should go out and take more photos and improve their artistic skills.
Rose
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01/09/2006 04:23:52 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by naldslc:
So I guess a fair number of us had better pull our entries for "Best of 2005".
"Challenge Details: Submit your best photograph taken in 2005.
Challenge Type: Member Challenge
Challenge Rules: Advanced Editing
Extra Rules: Your photograph must have been taken on or between January 1 and December 31, 2005. Please remember that you may not submit a photograph previously entered in another challenge."
I'll go on a limb here and say that there will be plenty of shots in that challenge that we've all seen before in members' profiles. Get over it, go take pictures and improve yourself as an artist.
Oh and:
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You forgot to mention that most likely there will be shots seen in forum postings before also...
Good popcorn BTW. ;^)
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01/09/2006 04:24:17 PM · #38 |
Rose, this is not at all illegal and requesting a DQ on those grounds is not gonna get the image actually DQed so if I was you I would save my time and energy for an actual violation of the rules.
June
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01/09/2006 04:46:22 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Chiqui:
Rose, this is not at all illegal and requesting a DQ on those grounds is not gonna get the image actually DQed so if I was you I would save my time and energy for an actual violation of the rules.
June |
Ummm, June? Where did I say a dq was requested? Keep up dear.
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-01-09 16:47:39.
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01/09/2006 04:46:59 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by naldslc:
So I guess a fair number of us had better pull our entries for "Best of 2005".
"Challenge Details: Submit your best photograph taken in 2005.
Challenge Type: Member Challenge
Challenge Rules: Advanced Editing
Extra Rules: Your photograph must have been taken on or between January 1 and December 31, 2005. Please remember that you may not submit a photograph previously entered in another challenge."
I'll go on a limb here and say that there will be plenty of shots in that challenge that we've all seen before in members' profiles. Get over it, go take pictures and improve yourself as an artist.
Oh and:
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You forgot to mention that most likely there will be shots seen in forum postings before also...
Good popcorn BTW. ;^) |
Hopefully I don't see them then! LOL.....I'm eating REAL popcorn! YUMMY!
Rose
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01/09/2006 04:51:35 PM · #41 |
Ok, well, I think the purpose of this thread has been accomplished. As far as I am concerned, it can be locked.
I still think it is an immoral and unethical practice. My stance has not changed.
Thank you all for your input! If you have any personal issues with me, you can always take them to PM. If this thread isn't locked, and there is more to be said where I feel a reply is needed, I will reply.
Going to the update button!
Rose
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01/09/2006 05:14:35 PM · #42 |
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01/09/2006 05:15:58 PM · #43 |
Rose, You seemed highly offended when I questioned your method of taking your challenge shots to a pro to help your decision making. But you then went on to say;
Originally posted by Rose8699:
And it isn't fair to those that struggle to decide which photo to enter as they keep their morals in tact during, before, and after the voting process. |
But you're not struggling to decide. You're getting help! Also;
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Anonymity is really not so much the issue as having others say to you "the photo is great! I would enter it!". This is what is the problem to me. |
But that's exactly what you're doing yourself! I understand and agree with the anonymity issue. But it seems the point you're trying to make is about people looking for opinions on their shot pre-challenge.
Incidently, I have absolutely no interest in your personal life.
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01/09/2006 05:26:55 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I agree with Rose. I think it's a cheesy thing to do. Once a photo has been posted to the forums, it should never be entered into an 'anonymous' challenge. |
I would have to say I agree! |
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01/09/2006 05:46:30 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I don't care about the anonymity factor (in a sense) as much as I care about asking if others should enter a photo, post it, and then enter it after receiving the high-fives on it.
Rose |
Rose, you seem to be harping on the fact that he got some positive response to his photo. I haven't gone back to look at the thread again, but if i remember correctly, there were just as many responses that stated he made the right choice to NOT enter it, implying that they would not vote it high.
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01/09/2006 05:49:38 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Rose, You seemed highly offended when I questioned your method of taking your challenge shots to a pro to help your decision making. But you then went on to say;
Originally posted by Rose8699:
And it isn't fair to those that struggle to decide which photo to enter as they keep their morals in tact during, before, and after the voting process. |
But you're not struggling to decide. You're getting help! Also;
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Anonymity is really not so much the issue as having others say to you "the photo is great! I would enter it!". This is what is the problem to me. |
But that's exactly what you're doing yourself! I understand and agree with the anonymity issue. But it seems the point you're trying to make is about people looking for opinions on their shot pre-challenge.
Incidently, I have absolutely no interest in your personal life. |
LOL....jhonan, you really need to get a clue. I take my "help" when I need it, OUTSIDE of DPC. I do NOT ask on the forums in public at a site where I am going to enter a challenge and where the voters are? Is that clear enough NOW? LOL....
AND I have NO interest in you knowing my personal life either. You asked a question, I answered it. That was my answer. If you don't like them, don't read them or don't ask. Maybe you should join Di?
Rose
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-01-09 17:50:03.
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01/09/2006 05:53:34 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by shamrock69:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I don't care about the anonymity factor (in a sense) as much as I care about asking if others should enter a photo, post it, and then enter it after receiving the high-fives on it.
Rose |
Rose, you seem to be harping on the fact that he got some positive response to his photo. I haven't gone back to look at the thread again, but if i remember correctly, there were just as many responses that stated he made the right choice to NOT enter it, implying that they would not vote it high. |
It doesn't matter. High, not high, people could have falsified their comments, could be encouraging, whatevre. The fact of the matter is it was posted on this site openly and publicly before challenge and this CAN sway votes.
I was accused many times for swaying votes JUST for having a view on a description a challenge has. To outwardly POST my entry? LOL...PULEEEZ. The flack would have been deafening.
Rose
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01/09/2006 05:54:21 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by micknewton:
I agree with Rose. I think it's a cheesy thing to do. Once a photo has been posted to the forums, it should never be entered into an 'anonymous' challenge. |
I would have to say I agree! |
Hallelujah! *Not sure that is spelled correctly, but you get the idea*
Rose
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01/09/2006 05:58:16 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I take my "help" when I need it, OUTSIDE of DPC. I do NOT ask on the forums in public at a site where I am going to enter a challenge and where the voters are? Is that clear enough NOW? LOL.... |
Isn't asking about your idea, refining it based on someone else's suggestion, entering or not entering based on an outside discussion the same thing as "collaboration"
collaboration:
1. To work together, especially in a joint intellectual effort.
Hm...sounds to me like you possibly violated the rules on collaboration. You should request a self-dq on the images you had help with.
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01/09/2006 06:03:54 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I was accused many times for swaying votes JUST for having a view on a description a challenge has. |
Having a view on a description is one thing. To make post after post during the challenge and the voting (including on the scores threads) constantly hammering home your interpretation of the challenge may be seen by some as trying to sway votes.
And certainly starting this thread to single out an entry in an on-going challenge could also be seen as trying to sway votes. |
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