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04/21/2003 01:03:19 PM · #1 |
Greetings from the Troll of the Week, as appointed by OneSweetSin!
I didn't realise I had stirred up such a wasp's nest with my comment - which, by the way, I felt was the less inflammatory of the two I left about US flags this week (sorry, severin!). I clearly missed out on a great discussion over the last week - I've been at home from university, where I attempt to broaden my oh-so-tiny mind :) .
I don't know where to begin, really! I guess I might make a few responses to criticisms levelled at my comment:
1. I did NOT award a 1 to the photo in question. Many people wrongly quoted this. The photo was marked on technical merit, quality, innovation etc., just as I did with every other shot last week.
2. I do not hate the American flag, nor the nation. I hate cliched pics; especially if I see them as just an exercise in political drum-beating in an unrelated challenge.
3. I've never given a 1 during my (admittedly short) time as a user of this site.
And, further to that, i'm not planning to start - I'll freely admit here that my comment that pics of US flags 'will be getting 1 from me in future weeks' was hasty and ill-judged. Of course, I'll still reserve my right to vote on them as the cliches I feel they have become.
I'm guessing I will receive another flaming from OneSweetSin now, and perhaps another email screaming about my 'closed mind', but hey, it's worth it to get my point across, and say what I want to say. Hope the offended parties from last week can appreciate my point of view a little better now.
BTW If you want specific votes stricken from your score you must be a bigger nutter than me - everyone is entitled to a view. If their view is that the flag is evil, or that pic is terrible, just accept it. You can find less inflammatory subjects for a photo - but of course every '1' doled out by a flag-hater is undoubtedly evened out by a '10' from a 'patriot'. Your choice.
Again, thanks for listening to the views of a troll, and happy pic-taking!
GreggeN
Message edited by author 2003-04-21 13:04:56. |
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04/21/2003 01:16:24 PM · #2 |
btw my attention was brought to the fact that, by mentioning the insult to OneSweetSin's pic on the forums, she managed to draw a few sympathetic votes and comments! Nice work - maybe I'll do that this week! I can pretend to have cussed my own shot of a United States flag, moan about it on the forums, and pick up a few cheap 10s!
Now why didn't I think of doing that before now...?
BTW congrats to those who were suckered into this. I guess the answer is just to accept that flag pics are always going to attract polarised views and votes - but as mentioned in my earlier post, the 1s are going to be at least matched by the 10s... |
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04/21/2003 01:17:19 PM · #3 |
| Another flamming from me nope. All I can say is nice you spoke out. |
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04/21/2003 01:20:40 PM · #4 |
I think your response is completely reasonable under the circumstances. Thanks.
Of course this week's challenge is perfectly set up to have three flags side-by-side...
BTW-my Weather photo DID include a flag, but not for the "usual" reasons... |
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04/21/2003 01:34:02 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by GreggeN:
but as mentioned in my earlier post, the 1s are going to be at least matched by the 10s... |
Maybe you should check the facts out, you aren't the only one who votes down things cause of being a cliche or because of not understanding the artistic expression of a photo, check and see the 10s didn't even come close to the number of 1s I received cause to many didn't understand that a flag blowing in the breeze shows wind, which is definately a weather condition.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=18191
Personally if I had came across that photo and been voting on it I would have given it a 6 maybe a 7 but as I said last week it wasn't a perfect photo but it was far from a 1 too.
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04/21/2003 01:39:34 PM · #6 |
Yes, it was a decent photo, as you so modestly point out.
BUT to say maybe I didn't appreciate the artistic expression of the photo? That's a joke - art by its very nature is subjective. What i like, perhaps the next person hates; what I hate might be perfection to another person. The only person who knows exactly what one is saying in a photo is onesself.
But again; if you're going to take a picture of a controversial subject, expect controversial marks and comments. There's nothing one can do to avoid it. |
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04/21/2003 01:45:39 PM · #7 |
I think the 1's given for US flags isn't because the voter considers them to be a "cliche". For example, when you (nobody in specific) sees another type of cliche, say a flower pic in the Macro challenge, do you automatically give it a 1 even if it's a decent shot? Probably not. So why do voters give a 1 to a good picture of a US flag? I think it's more because they don't like America and or the flag, which is fine with me.
So I've decided that for all US flags I see from now on, if they are decent shots and not arrogant with the Title, that I'm giving them 10's automatically. Just my little way of responding to the 20 1's I see cast. :) Believe me I don't like doing it, but since there's no mechanism to strip off "bad" votes (either abnormally high or low votes) I have to!
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04/21/2003 02:25:04 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
So I've decided that for all US flags I see from now on, if they are decent shots and not arrogant with the Title, that I'm giving them 10's automatically. Just my little way of responding to the 20 1's I see cast. :) Believe me I don't like doing it, but since there's no mechanism to strip off "bad" votes (either abnormally high or low votes) I have to! |
I might have to keep this mind too for the next flag photo I see. Cause as I said in a previous thread that was the first time I use the US Flag as my subject, and I truly do believe it was a nice way to show a clear and breezy spring day.
I can't help but say there are 21 people who just didn't look past the fact that it was a US flag. I feel sorry for them being so consumed with the passion of hate that they didn't notice the fact the photo was in clear focus, colors were true, or that it did meet the challenge, oh well I guess I am am with you Chris next decent flag photo I see gets a 10 from me just to help balance out the scores... |
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04/21/2003 02:26:08 PM · #9 |
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04/21/2003 02:27:00 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
So I've decided that for all US flags I see from now on, if they are decent shots and not arrogant with the Title, that I'm giving them 10's automatically. Just my little way of responding to the 20 1's I see cast. :) Believe me I don't like doing it, but since there's no mechanism to strip off "bad" votes (either abnormally high or low votes) I have to! |
I might have to keep this mind too for the next flag photo I see. Cause as I said in a previous thread that was the first time I use the US Flag as my subject, and I truly do believe it was a nice way to show a clear and breezy spring day.
I can't help but say there are 21 people who just didn't look past the fact that it was a US flag. I feel sorry for them being so consumed with the passion of hate that they didn't notice the fact the photo was in clear focus, colors were true, or that it did meet the challenge, oh well I guess I am am with you Chris next decent flag photo I see gets a 10 from me just to help balance out the scores... |
Just for the record, your shot got a 7 from me. |
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04/21/2003 02:32:08 PM · #11 |
It would be interesting to know what Countries those 21 votes came from.
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04/21/2003 02:36:00 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
Just for the record, your shot got a 7 from me. |
Thank you =o)
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04/21/2003 02:37:13 PM · #13 |
| Of course, the only reason for a shot to get a 1 is because the voter hates the subject. And what a bunch of haters this whole group is! I mean, pet haters, kid haters, flag haters, country haters, flower haters...and all on a site full of perfect ten photos! It's really such a shame... |
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04/21/2003 02:47:04 PM · #14 |
I have given high scores to a lot of photos I didn't "like." But they were good photos.
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04/21/2003 02:51:43 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
...I can't help but say there are 21 people who just didn't look past the fact that it was a US flag. I feel sorry for them being so consumed with the passion of hate that they didn't notice the fact the photo was in clear focus, colors were true, or that it did meet the challenge, oh well I guess I am am with you Chris next decent flag photo I see gets a 10 from me just to help balance out the scores... |
I think we should vote each picture on its own merits, and without regard for what other voters might or might not be thinking.
For example, I gave your photo a 6. I bet there's a lot of people here who would have guessed (from my forum posts) that mine would have been one of the lower votes. Would I have given it a seven had it been a Canadian flag, or your State flag? Maybe, maybe not...but I took that particular photo to be primarily using the flag to illustrate the weather conditions, more than to advance a political viewpoint. You did a good job with that.
My own entry leans somewhat the other way, using the weather conditions and the flag to create a metaphorical statement about current events...and "paid the price" for doing so. Of course, it was also a quick opportunity shot (taken from my car), so I could also have done better with the same idea/setting.
Flags are used symbolically in many ways, and what I try to look for is the quality/composition of the photo and whether the "message" (if any) is effectively communicated, even if I don't agree with the content of the message... |
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04/21/2003 03:00:54 PM · #16 |
[quote=GeneralE]
For example, I gave your photo a 6. I bet there's a lot of people here who would have guessed (from my forum posts) that mine would have been one of the lower votes. Would I have given it a seven had it been a Canadian flag, or your State flag? Maybe, maybe not...but I took that particular photo to be primarily using the flag to illustrate the weather conditions, more than to advance a political viewpoint. You did a good job with that.
My own entry leans somewhat the other way, using the weather conditions and the flag to create a metaphorical statement about current events...and "paid the price" for doing so. Of course, it was also a quick opportunity shot (taken from my car), so I could also have done better with the same idea/setting.
[quote]
I confess I gave your flag photo an 8, I thought the sky was magnificent added touch to your photo.
A little about mine though I didn't take it out of the car window...I made 3 trips that week to a park here called Gospel Hill where that 50 foot flag towers over the entire city. Each day I spent close to 2 hours sitting under the flag hoping for the right amount of wind to appear. |
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04/21/2003 03:09:03 PM · #17 |
| Thanks! I guess I don't have that much time or dedication (to this...). The lighting and focus on your's are beautiful -- much better than I ever seem to get. Maybe I AM suffering a bit of "flag fatigue" after all... |
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04/21/2003 03:54:08 PM · #18 |
I still think it is just a boring flag shot. It's very un-original, and extremely easy to take such a picture. So I would have rated it very low anyway. I also said in my comment that it was bad timing to post such a picture, but I think that the way you reacted to Greggen's comment was responsible for a most of the 1's you received.
Chris's little scheme to vote 10 on any Amercan flag picture that will be submitted in the future will only make things worse.
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04/21/2003 05:40:11 PM · #19 |
<>>
Or maybe they hate people who Whine DURING a challange because it influences votes.
If this discussion had taken place AFTER the voting it would have had much more merit.
Message edited by author 2003-04-21 17:43:46. |
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04/21/2003 05:53:40 PM · #20 |
The longer this sight is up the more people we will get and that means the more trolls like this one.
I think the purpose for this sight was to get better at photography and not really judge people on their subjects to the point of giving them a 1 because you didn't care for it.
If that was true for me then I would give a lot of 1's. I don't like a lot of the photos that get submitted. Most are excellent pictures, but I look at the technical side of it. I think you need to be mature to vote. The comments that some make should lead me to believe that they are to imature to vote.
Maybe that should be a suggestion. people can't vote until they've earned our trust.
I think you should probable practice on your own photography instead of voting and commenting. Please don't take it personally. Just my true thoughts on the whole thing.
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04/21/2003 05:56:07 PM · #21 |
Personally, I vote on how much I like a photo, and not the technical side. I dont care how something is produced, all I care about is the final image, and thats what I base my score on.
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04/21/2003 06:16:26 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
The longer this sight is up the more people we will get and that means the more trolls like this one.
I think the purpose for this sight was to get better at photography and not really judge people on their subjects to the point of giving them a 1 because you didn't care for it.
If that was true for me then I would give a lot of 1's. I don't like a lot of the photos that get submitted. Most are excellent pictures, but I look at the technical side of it. I think you need to be mature to vote. The comments that some make should lead me to believe that they are to imature to vote.
Maybe that should be a suggestion. people can't vote until they've earned our trust.
I think you should probable practice on your own photography instead of voting and commenting. Please don't take it personally. Just my true thoughts on the whole thing. |
You said that wonderfully. |
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04/21/2003 06:41:34 PM · #23 |
Let's see if I understand what a Troll is....
Troll: anyone who doesn't like my photo and tries to convey that feeling with a comment.
Does that sound about right?
Well, first of all... if anyone on this site has ever produced an image that everyone else voted 5 or over, please raise your hand... i wanna see it.
Take the comments you get and move on. Don't get yer panties in a wad because someone didnt' like your photo.
What you SHOULD be attacking in this thread is the comment method. TACT is an important element of any comment... especially a critical comment. If you get a negative comment that lacks TACT, all you have to do is challenge yourself to understand what was said and then put it into words that don't upset you so badly.
Is it not OK for someone to express their feelings about your photo in the form of a comment?
Instead of asking for voters to gain our approval first, why don't we ask ourselves if we are too fragile for the comments we may receive? Maybe we shouldn't be posting photos to a public forum if we are not prepared for the reactions we may get....
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04/21/2003 06:47:13 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Let's see if I understand what a Troll is....
Troll: anyone who doesn't like my photo and tries to convey that feeling with a comment.
Does that sound about right?
Well, first of all... if anyone on this site has ever produced an image that everyone else voted 5 or over, please raise your hand... i wanna see it.
Take the comments you get and move on. Don't get yer panties in a wad because someone didnt' like your photo.
What you SHOULD be attacking in this thread is the comment method. TACT is an important element of any comment... especially a critical comment. If you get a negative comment that lacks TACT, all you have to do is challenge yourself to understand what was said and then put it into words that don't upset you so badly.
Is it not OK for someone to express their feelings about your photo in the form of a comment?
Instead of asking for voters to gain our approval first, why don't we ask ourselves if we are too fragile for the comments we may receive? Maybe we shouldn't be posting photos to a public forum if we are not prepared for the reactions we may get.... |
Ditto
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04/21/2003 07:05:39 PM · #25 |
I decided to check out what remarks were made about this photo and how many ones were given to it...
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=17719
Even more ones than my photo. I never complained about the negative comments being made last week I complained that someone would make the comment that starting this week all American flag photos were getting a 1, which just isn't fair to anyone.
I also did see that almost the same identical remark was left on this photo although on this one he didn't pinpoint to giving the US flag a 1 in the future as was made in the comment about my photo.
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